[1.3.3200] No usable food for wild person with enough food present

[glass zebra]

I put a wild man into my jail (who was a colonist before a mental break) and often get the "no usable food" message for taming interaction. If there are rules for this, they seem somewhat arbitrary, like you can see in this example:

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1841409905598658785/C72D2E446F0C402CC15E9C7E01C18A04A09A5CD9/
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1841409905598659159/BFE4B46417F818FE85567D01FB9B050AB81E4E96/
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1841409905598659432/7B55B46C7023709257FD8BB95832239364E39AD3/

I could not tame that person because it said I do not have food for that. I modified the pawn to have all food allowed, which did not help. I then slaughtered a single alpaca, which increased my meat supply. After that I could tame, but the tamer took the rice for taming which was there before the slaughtering.
On top of that, I saw a 80% chance on taming when the wild man was free. After I took him prisoner, the chance is now down to a bit more than 40%. No idea if that is because either the animal specialist 200% multiplier does not apply anymore or the 200% animal personhood multiplier does not apply anymore.

Should I try to create a test save for you? I am not sure how much you can look into the code for this one or how much you need to test hands on before knowing what's going on. I am not sure yet what the issue is but could try to dig deeper if it's not clear for you.

Both DLCs, no mods used.

[Canute]

Hi,
at the first pic there was 2 stack's of rice 5&6. On the 3. pic there was 6&25.
Maybe 11 rice wasn't enough for the taming process, or a pawn "locked" one stack of rice as you tried to tame the wild man.

Are you familar with the dev tools ? Enable developer mode at the options.
Then you got new small icon's on top.
You can destroy stuff and spawn new stuff over the debug action menu.
Destroy all the rice, and test to tame.
Spawm a few rice, maybe 5x 5x1rice, forbid the 4 other stack so the warden can't access it and try to tame again. Unforbid a rice stack if he don't got tamable food.
Just play around until you can narrow it down to reproduce it.

Btw. you made excellent bug report's so far. You should assign for an internal beta tester ! Maybe Phaenox could made something ! :-)

[glass zebra]

The whole rice from the last screenshot is on the first screenshot too, just not stacked. My pawn took 11 rice after I butchered the alpaca, which is the amount which was already in the storage pile. I think none of the stacks were locked, since my pawns were all really close to that single house and I had this problem for several minutes before anybody hauled the rice in (thus locking it). In addition to that, there was tons of meat available which should also work for taming (my pawn took the meat for the attempt just after that).
I will try around again until I find a good repro and attach a save for that.

Thank you for the compliment, but I am mostly making these bug reports because I fail to believe that things like these are not reported already. I've seen people pointing out stuff in the forums or even mods existing to "fix" certain things, yet all reports or suggestions I've ever made for the game were implemented in the very next patch. I don't know why certain things are in the game for months or longer. It seems nobody reports these. Rimworld was always one of the games I regarded highly for it's quality and because in the alpha exploits have been fixed in interesting ways (like beer to body size effects to not kill thrumbos so easily). Ideology is kinda an unexpedted dip in quality and I want to help in changing that. I am not sure what you mean with the internal testing. I am just playing and find these things that nobody seems to care about. I've even read stuff from people like "Ideology is bug free". I am not saying that Ideology is bad or that I do not enjoy it, but that I am surprised by the giant player base vs bug shelf life.

I still have more stuff to report but still gather it until I have something of quality and in good shape. Quite a few of the meme/precept/role descriptions have errors or are misleading, but I want to have to in a readable form and make sure to split the actual bugs/description errors and missleading/"could be better" things. I don't to create 10 topics each with a single description error.

[glass zebra]

It seems like the pawns look for a stack size instead of counting all the food you have. If you have 25 rice all spread, they say there is no usable food. If you merge that rice together in one stack, they can suddenly use it. I tested it with 23 and 2 rice next to each other and it was not possible. Merged it into a 25 stack and my pawn took that 25 and started taming. I made sure non of the 2 stacks are locked. It does not even work with 100 food as long as there is not 1 big stack.

Testing the taming chance difference with animal skill 7, animal specialist and animal personhood 200% bonus: 50% outside prison, 30% inside prison. Removing the animal specialist role reduces prison taming to 15%, removing the animal personhood 200% bonus reduced it to 7.5%, so both of these boni seem to still apply. The chance inside the prison is just lower without any hint why this would be. Save: https://easyupload.io/e0gmpr
Should I make a separate thread for this one?

[Canute]

Thank you for the compliment, but I am mostly making these bug reports because I fail to believe that things like these are not reported already....
I don't know why certain things are in the game for months or longer. It seems nobody reports these.

I believe only a few people still play the game unmodded and then it is hard to say if a problem is a vanilla bug or from a mod.
And new player like you got a different view at maybe old/new problems with the new DLC compared to old players which maybe just oversee it.

I am not sure what you mean with the internal testing.

There is a small crew of player/tester which test a new release before these come to the unstable branch or get released. Since Tynan want to hide new features/DLC's all of these need to test these secretly ! :-)

I still have more stuff to report but still gather it until I have something of quality and in good shape.

This is what made you different from other bug reporter's. You try to investigate the problem self, find proper proofs,record them proper with pictures and savegames.
Very nice work at all, so Phaenox easyly can reproduce it and forward them.

Good catch with the non-stack food. I think that is an old problem, but only happen when you are low on taming food and with large stockpiles.
Many people create some small 1x1 stockpile with higher priority next to the stove, then the cook don't need to run that much to gather ingredents.

[glass zebra]

I believe only a few people still play the game unmodded and then it is hard to say if a problem is a vanilla bug or from a mod.
And new player like you got a different view at maybe old/new problems with the new DLC compared to old players which maybe just oversee it..

I've been playing this game for over 5 years now.

There is a small crew of player/tester which test a new release before these come to the unstable branch or get released. Since Tynan want to hide new features/DLC's all of these need to test these secretly ! :-)

How tight is that progress? Is it mostly just reporting bugs/problems or actual sprints etc. with testers + two way communication?

This is what made you different from other bug reporter's. You try to investigate the problem self, find proper proofs,record them proper with pictures and savegames.
Very nice work at all, so Phaenox easyly can reproduce it and forward them.

Well I want to understand it myself first. If I don't, it might easily just be an oversight of myself and not an actual problem with the game.

Good catch with the non-stack food. I think that is an old problem, but only happen when you are low on taming food and with large stockpiles.
Many people create some small 1x1 stockpile with higher priority next to the stove, then the cook don't need to run that much to gather ingredents.

Yeah I've been starting a few new games recently testing stuff out. I wanna get a complete list of problems with the memes I didn't play much. This is still really early game and my rice field just burned down, so I had food problems. Otherwise I would have probably not noticed this. Usually there should be enough in the main storage too. The break point seems to be close to 25 which is really low.

I think some memes are just not played that much and therefor don't have that much feedback. I saw this in other games with rarely picked characters/items etc. It's a bit weird that I still found bugs for transhumanism and cannibalism though, since I thought those might be played a lot based on steam forum entries (at least for transhumanism). Because quite a big number of threads over there are about mods or crashes from mods, what you said earlier with not knowing what's from mods might be right. I have no idea how big the mod market is for ideology though. I've seen rituals and some precepts like torture, but I don't know how complex things got. I've read that most mods do not use features of the DLCs, but I have no idea how true that is.

[Pheanox]

@Canute: Internal testing kind of comes and goes in waves, it hasn't been going on since the release of Ideology and I'm the only 'full time' internal tester.  I definitely keep my eye here for active posters though when considering a new round of internal testing.  I definitely appreciate the vanilla bugtesting glass zebra is doing though.  Its impossible for me to catch everything, and I have limited time myself since I have a full time job now doing other stuff.

I will look into the decreased chance of taming while in prison to see if its intended (since you are isolating a wild man it may be a balance against that 'bonus') and there is a clarity issue, or an actual bug.

As for your main report, I will put that in for review.  Though honestly it kind of seems similar to other mechanics like cooking if you harvest a bunch of berries around the map, you only grab what is needed per meal rather than hauling it all in.

[glass zebra]

Cooking does not work in a similar way, as it just checks the available total food and not stack sizes. If you have 10 stacks of 4 berry each, the pawn will not have a menu with "no usuable" food. For a simple meal x4 the pawn will instead do 10 trips (if the food is far apart) and gather it all on the stove. It still works without a problem and just needs legwork. The same situation for taming will just make taming impossible until you merged the food until you have at least a stack of ~25. I don't know if I describe the issue wrongly.


Also: I thought you were employed by Ludeon as full time QA. Now I am feeling bad making you read all these reports.

[Pheanox]

I am paid for the work, I just have another job.  This is what I do on my spare time instead of relaxing. :p