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Author Topic: Understanding how Ideology works  (Read 471 times)

reck

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Understanding how Ideology works
« on: November 17, 2022, 03:52:15 PM »

Can someone explain how setting up a fixed ideoligion works? There are lots of different options and i'm not clear what they all do and how they connect with each other.

Structure - “This only affects symbols – it does not affect gameplay”

In Rimworld what are symbols and how does it affect them?

It says it doesn’t affect gameplay but it seems certain gameplay features are locked behind certain origins. For instance if you want to have smokeleaf circle ritual you can only have that with some of the origins, if you pick one of the other structures it says you can’t have this ritual in the game.

Was this changed after release and the text never updated as it does lock/unlock certain things depending on what you pick so does affect gameplay.

Meme’s / Precepts

Using the collectivist meme as an example

Required precepts
    • work drive – tripled
Chance to have precept
    • visage mask – relexed
Unlocked Rituals
    • symbol burning
Prevented precept
    • marriage – keep name

So first question is when I select the meme it then shows me a screen full of precepts. If I hover over the meme (collectivist) it highlights some of the precepts. In my case it highlights, Drug use, execution, organ use & work drive.

I understand why work drive is highlighted as it’s a required precept for the collectivist meme but why are the other ones highlighted as they aren’t listed as required under the memes description and in the case of drug use I can even go in and completely remove it? So what is the highlight telling me?

What does the yellow text colour indicate on the precepts. For instance male clothing – pants and shirts is white text but if I change it to totally covered the text changes yellow, pants is back to white while pants at most is yellow.

Are the 21 precepts shown locked and can’t be changed? I clicked the randomized button a few times but all the precepts stayed the same with only the levels of the precepts changing, e.g. slavery changing from abhorrent to horrible. So at least for me it doesn’t seem to change the precepts on offer. The only one I can remove completely is drug use, why that one but no others?

I can see I can add extra ones on top of the initial 21 using the add precept button.

Finally it says in the collectivist description, Chance to have precept - visage mask – relexed. What does it mean by chance to have the precept and where do I see if I ended up getting it or not? There's an option for preferred apparel but preferred apparel is different from a precept.


Culture

How does this affect gameplay? If I change from Astropolitan to Sophian for instance I didn’t any difference other than the flavour text. Is there more to it than that?

Thanks for any help understanding this.
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reck

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Re: Understanding how Ideology works
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2022, 11:04:50 AM »

Does the lack of replies mean no one else understands how any of this works either?  ;D

I’ll try the steam forums as well but I though the more hardcore players who know the game best would hangout here.
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Barazen

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Re: Understanding how Ideology works
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2022, 07:02:29 AM »

Unfortunately I can't help you in regards to the ideologies my best guess as to the men's question is that the highlighted ones are directly relevant to your type of ideology, having those highlighted ones might make it easier for other ideologies to live together if they are set similarly.
For example supremacist and collectivist may get along better if they both approve of raiding, so supremacist has it highlighted to show that's the default.
the reason you haven't gotten a reply though is most likely because forums just aren't as popular as they used to be, and most people are content to talk on steam.

There are a few lurkers here though, I tend to make my way in on occasion.
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reck

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Re: Understanding how Ideology works
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2022, 12:49:39 PM »

When the icon is yellow it seems to be the more extremes of the options available, so for male clothing both "fully nude" and "totally covered" are both yellow while the in-between options show with a white and grey coloured icons. As both extremes are yellow I would think most ideologies would tend towards one end of the spectrum or the other so i'm not sure the colour indicates that it's more relevant to your ideology based on that.

The fact we’re having to guess here show’s it’s not well explained. I had a look at the wiki and some youtube channels but no-one can explain this stuff.

I thought as the expansion had been out a while now there would be people that would understand how it worked but it seems not.

Thanks for the tip on the forum. I used this forum years ago before Rimworld made it on Steam and assumed the biggest Rimworld players would still be here, which is why I posted here. I’ve also posted the same question on Steam but as of yesterday hadn’t received an answer on there either.
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Barazen

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Re: Understanding how Ideology works
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2022, 05:50:25 AM »

It may come down to gameplay impact, the extremes get coloured because going against them confers large mood debuffs.

Clothing a nudist in a burka for example.

But say a more relaxed disapproved drug use might only impact social interactions and opinions, and only really matter in ce nch scenarios, rather then having the risking of putting you in one.

Actually, having thought about it all the kinda grey ones tend to be pretty low impact gameplay wise
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reck

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Re: Understanding how Ideology works
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2022, 03:47:01 PM »

Yes I think that might be it, that makes sense. I guess we'll never know a 100%.
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Limdood

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Re: Understanding how Ideology works
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2022, 09:13:41 PM »

The structure does indeed have a very small impact.  Specifically access to a couple very specific rituals or styles, such as smokeleaf circle or christian style.  You might want to look at the wiki when choosing your structure to see which options enable which small features.

For the precepts, its important which ones are required and which are forbidden.  Especially if you are planning to mix and match.  The grey/white/yellow coloring indicates how far away it is from "baseline" gameplay.  Grey coloring is fairly similar to vanilla, non-ideoligion gameplay....blinding is abhorrent, so is cannibalism.  Clothing required is lower and torso for women, and lower for men.  Marriage is 1 spouse only.  I'm pretty sure all the "who takes who's name in marriage" options are grey, because they have almost no impact.  White options are a significant step away from vanilla gameplay.  cannibalism acceptable, for example.  Or many "preferred" or "disapproved" options because its a small mood penalty or bonus.  Yellow are significant changes.  Cannibalism required (ravenous) or scarring (extreme) or raiding (required) or slavery (honorable).  I'm pretty sure that the "chance to have [precept]" in each meme is mainly for the computer generation of the NPC/AI ideologies.  They might have that precept, or maybe not.

You can absolutely change all of the precepts...within limits.  You can't remove a required precept.  You can't add a prohibited precept.  Some precept options are locked to certain memes.  Ranching (Central) is locked to the Rancher meme, for example.  Nutrient Paste (don't care) is locked to the Technology, bodder-modder-ish meme.  Insect Meat (delicious) is locked to underground meme.  The "Add precept" button at the top of the precepts icons is ABSOLUTELY worth taking a look at.  You can see which memes are available to add an easier or harder/stricter gameplay experience, or to add give-and-take precepts....for example the bigotry (intense) precept makes everyone upset if you have a colonist of a different ideology, and a big social penalty with followers of different ideos, but if all your colonists are the same ideo (the one with that precept), you get a permanent +3 mood boost.  Note that mousing over a precept that is "active" will tell you what it does (what moodlets it gives, what it prohibits, etc.), but the name of the precept will usually only give you a general idea.  So mess with those precepts and read those tooltips to see the specifics and make sure you get what you want.  Trees (desired) obviously implies that you want to live in a forest...but you need to select and apply the actual precept (which requires a certain meme I believe) in order to see that for the most part, its meant as a large penalty for few trees, and only a tiny boost for tons of trees!

I'm not sure what culture does exactly.


Some general tips.
1) don't build a fixed ideology.  Not until you're REALLY comfortable with the system.  You can't change it if you make a tiny mistake.
2) Instead build a fluid Ideology.  You're limited to picking only 1 meme (to start), but you can still select ALL of the precepts you want (except the ones gated behind a meme you intend to add but haven't started with).  Every time you reform the Ideology, you can add or remove a meme, or add or remove a style, and THEN you can edit all your precepts/apparel/rituals/roles/etc.  EVERY TIME you reform.  So you find out you don't really like something you picked, or it doesn't work the way you thought?  No problem, its a new, tiny ideoligion!  I'm sure no one will mind a little flexibility!
3) on the topic of reforming.  Reforming requires development points.  Development points are gained from good or great rituals or converting people.  So...make sure you can get them.  When you make an Ideology, you should add a large amount of rituals, able to be performed at any time.  This means you can do a skylantern festival for 1-2 points, and then follow it up a day later with a social gathering, and then a dance party.  2 days later have a DIFFERENT social gathering. Also its not a bad idea if your resources allow, to capture raiders, convert them, and then release (or kill, or make an immobile bloodbag, I won't judge), since each conversion is 1 point.  It takes 10 development points to reform the first time, 12 the second, 14 the third, etc.  You can't save up for multiple reforms at once....if you have 16 points or 30 points or 10 points and do your first reform, you reset to 0 no matter what.

So, In short.  Go for Fluid instead of fixed.  Cherry pick the changes to all your precepts to what you want.  Add precepts that aren't listed to get the ideo to where you want it.  Have lots of rituals.  Experiment with different things and use reform to change what doesn't work for you (or just save before reforming and mess around!)
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