[MOD](Alpha 7) Realistic Weapons V2.0 + Fortifications Mod V2.0

[VStraken]

I will admit I have not done enough research in this matter  . Although I must say, weapon balance with over 100 different ones from different eras is a pain in the a$$ to keep track of. The one's you have pointed out will be fixed next update.

If it can help you I've also noticed some similar things with other guns as pointed out by the previous poster. I've noticed that the G36C, also an SMG-sized assault rifle, has a range of 120 which almost competes with some sniper rifles, while other full-size assault rifles and even battle rifles of the same caliber have 2/3 or 1/2 of this range. For comparison, the M16 (which also uses the same caliber) has a range of 80, while the M25 sniper rifle has a range of 135.

I do have others on the same vein and can post them if it would help you. I otherwise find this mod a great change from the original combat in the game and hope you keep going with it!

[AY]

I will admit I have not done enough research in this matter  . Although I must say, weapon balance with over 100 different ones from different eras is a pain in the a$$ to keep track of. The one's you have pointed out will be fixed next update.

If it can help you I've also noticed some similar things with other guns as pointed out by the previous poster. I've noticed that the G36C, also an SMG-sized assault rifle, has a range of 120 which almost competes with some sniper rifles, while other full-size assault rifles and even battle rifles of the same caliber have 2/3 or 1/2 of this range. For comparison, the M16 (which also uses the same caliber) has a range of 80, while the M25 sniper rifle has a range of 135.

I do have others on the same vein and can post them if it would help you. I otherwise find this mod a great change from the original combat in the game and hope you keep going with it!

Will be fixed the next update. Please point out any balancing issues you see, it would help a lot. 

[AY]

v2.1 Change Log: (Should be out by this weekend) (Delayed due to more changes)

Game play:
-Adds workspeed and walkspeed slow downs
-    - Walkspeed: Default walkspeed = 4.6 tiles/sec. Changes will be - 0.1 Tile/sec for every 1 kg a weapon weighs ( e.g - 0.4 tiles/sec for M16: 4kg, - 3.8 tiles/sec for M2 Browning: 38kg )
-    - Workspeed: - 2% for every kg a weapon weighs ( e.g - 8% for M16, - 76% for M2 Browning )
-    - Sci-fi weapons: Will be determined based on wikia values, if possible. Otherwise will be given an approximate value.

- More accurate portrayals of the different sci-fi weapons ( For most weapons based on sci-fi series )

Balance:
- All Mechanoid weapons will be buffed
- AKS - 74U rerolled as SMG
- R4 charge rifle range increase by 25
- R4 charge rifle round bursts increase from 3 to 4
- G36C range decrease by 20 to 100*
- M16 range increase by 20 to 100*

Notes:
* Both the M16 and G36C have a max effective range of 800m, while the M25 has a 900m max effective range

[VStraken]

I'm surprised that such a short gun like the G36C could have such a long range... I've looked on the wikipedia entry for the gun and I do see the same value, but I must say I remain skeptical, I'm going to do some poking around since wiki, while helpful, can still be mistaken. I'll let you know what I find.

EDIT: This site seems to indicate that the G36C has a range of 200m, while it's full sized big brother, the G36, has a range of 400m: http://weaponsystems.net/weapon.php?weapon=AA04%20-%20G36

Additionally I found the US Army Manual for the M16/M16A1, which indicates that those rifles have a max effective range of 460m: https://archive.org/stream/OperatorsManualForM16M16a1#page/n27/mode/2up

Incidentally, I also found this comparison article on wikipedia between the AK-47 and the M16; judging by the sources I've seen used on it, it may be a more accurate source of info on those guns. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_AK-47_and_M16

I'm wondering if perhaps it may be helpful if you had volunteers to dig around for this kind of information and verify its accuracy? I for one would be willing to do that, if you would like.

[NoImageAvailable]

^ I have to second that, assault rifles usually have their effective range put at ~400m, getting 800m with iron sights is extremely optimistic. And with a barrel length of 228mm for the G36C there is no way it could have that kind of range since it directly influences how much kinetic energy gets imparted on the bullet.

PS Going with the above poster's suggestion I'd be willing to do some fact checking myself. I don't have a military background but I do read a lot about firearms and lurk on a lot of military boards so I picked up a thing or two.

[powman898]

Extemely op puts weapons from other mods to shame but definately realistic and awesome!

[AY]

PS Going with the above poster's suggestion I'd be willing to do some fact checking myself. I don't have a military background but I do read a lot about firearms and lurk on a lot of military boards so I picked up a thing or two.

I'm wondering if perhaps it may be helpful if you had volunteers to dig around for this kind of information and verify its accuracy? I for one would be willing to do that, if you would like.

That would be great, having more people verify the accuracy of the values would definitely speed up the process and allow more time to be spent on each of the 153 weapons.

[AY]

EDIT: This site seems to indicate that the G36C has a range of 200m, while it's full sized big brother, the G36, has a range of 400m: http://weaponsystems.net/weapon.php?weapon=AA04%20-%20G36

Additionally I found the US Army Manual for the M16/M16A1, which indicates that those rifles have a max effective range of 460m: https://archive.org/stream/OperatorsManualForM16M16a1#page/n27/mode/2up

Incidentally, I also found this comparison article on wikipedia between the AK-47 and the M16; judging by the sources I've seen used on it, it may be a more accurate source of info on those guns. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_AK-47_and_M16

^ I have to second that, assault rifles usually have their effective range put at ~400m, getting 800m with iron sights is extremely optimistic. And with a barrel length of 228mm for the G36C there is no way it could have that kind of range since it directly influences how much kinetic energy gets imparted on the bullet.

All of the values are currently based off of Wikipedia, as I have yet to find another site that covers such a wide range of weapons, especially for older weapons. The Weapon Systems.net offers quite in-depth information about some of the more famous modern weapons and its variants, although it is missing info on quite a number of weapons.

[VStraken]

I also don't have a military background but I just happen to have a lot of free time on my hands and like looking things up. I'll give it my best shot though!

I also happened to find something that may be worth reading, it's a writeup about what effective range means. Maybe it will help out in guiding your decisions, and it has some info about a few guns currently in the mod.

http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/FactorsOfEffectiveRange

Sadly the rest of the site doesn't provide much information about the specifications of guns, from what I saw - and I'm getting the vibe that it might be a bit more difficult to find accurate info about foreign/non-US guns, based on what how the guy who wrote that article said in the little table as to the sources of the weapon ranges he listed.

Also, I was doing a bit of thinking - maybe it would be less of a burden if you "ballpark" your values by making certain similar guns have more or less similar stats in the absence of accurate specific info? Take for example the SCAR-L and M4A1; while they are are quite different from one another in terms of aesthetics and some mechanics, they are basically assault rifles with the same caliber, similar barrel length (~14 inches) and thus perform more or less similarly - both have 500m effective range (point range, if you've read the article); more substantial variation might depend on things like rate of fire between the guns. From there, it might be reasonable to assume for practical purposes that guns with similar caliber and barrel length would have similar range, and you just plug in the value from those guns for that new gun in the absence of accurate info for the new gun.

EDIT: Another bit of balance/accuracy issue for you. I've managed to get an MG42 and that gun is beastly, perhaps overly so. Each burst has 120 rounds fired from it, and its listed RPM ingame is 3600, which is not quite true to life since as I can see the MG42 had a RPM of 1100-1600, 1200 on wikipedia. In its current state, tribal/pirate groups could all be wiped out with a single burst, given some clever use of chokepoints. Not sure if you intend this or not. Rangewise, it might be alright as is, but what I've seen from available sources is that it can either reach out to 2000m (which I think might be the current value you have it set for), while others say that it has a max effective range of 1000m; the latter would bring it more in line with what info I have encountered regarding more modern MGs like the PK and the M60.

Here's some additional sites I've found that might provide useful info. I'll be sure to be poking around them myself:

http://www.militaryfactory.com
http://olive-drab.com
http://guns.wikia.com

EDIT 2: Going back to the MG42, the 120 round burst might not be a realistic option for the gun given that, at least from what I've seen on wikipedia, gunners were instructed not to fire more than 350 rounds in a minute so as to avoid overheating and barrel damage.

[SundayTuesday]

I also don't have a military background but I just happen to have a lot of free time on my hands and like looking things up. I'll give it my best shot though!

I also happened to find something that may be worth reading, it's a writeup about what effective range means. Maybe it will help out in guiding your decisions, and it has some info about a few guns currently in the mod.

http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/FactorsOfEffectiveRange

Sadly the rest of the site doesn't provide much information about the specifications of guns, from what I saw - and I'm getting the vibe that it might be a bit more difficult to find accurate info about foreign/non-US guns, based on what how the guy who wrote that article said in the little table as to the sources of the weapon ranges he listed.

Also, I was doing a bit of thinking - maybe it would be less of a burden if you "ballpark" your values by making certain similar guns have more or less similar stats in the absence of accurate specific info? Take for example the SCAR-L and M4A1; while they are are quite different from one another in terms of aesthetics and some mechanics, they are basically assault rifles with the same caliber, similar barrel length (~14 inches) and thus perform more or less similarly

I have buddies who served, used both of these weapons. Both of them have said they perform entirely differently, whether it be range or stopping power.

[VStraken]

I also don't have a military background but I just happen to have a lot of free time on my hands and like looking things up. I'll give it my best shot though!

I also happened to find something that may be worth reading, it's a writeup about what effective range means. Maybe it will help out in guiding your decisions, and it has some info about a few guns currently in the mod.

http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/FactorsOfEffectiveRange

Sadly the rest of the site doesn't provide much information about the specifications of guns, from what I saw - and I'm getting the vibe that it might be a bit more difficult to find accurate info about foreign/non-US guns, based on what how the guy who wrote that article said in the little table as to the sources of the weapon ranges he listed.

Also, I was doing a bit of thinking - maybe it would be less of a burden if you "ballpark" your values by making certain similar guns have more or less similar stats in the absence of accurate specific info? Take for example the SCAR-L and M4A1; while they are are quite different from one another in terms of aesthetics and some mechanics, they are basically assault rifles with the same caliber, similar barrel length (~14 inches) and thus perform more or less similarly

I have buddies who served, used both of these weapons. Both of them have said they perform entirely differently, whether it be range or stopping power.

Interesting, can you elaborate? This might be useful to know since with my whole idea of ballparking the various values I suspect it could have the consequences of making a lot of guns kinda "samey", so anything that can lead to realistic and practical variation between the guns seems like it would be a good thing.

[AY]

Also, I was doing a bit of thinking - maybe it would be less of a burden if you "ballpark" your values by making certain similar guns have more or less similar stats in the absence of accurate specific info? Take for example the SCAR-L and M4A1; while they are are quite different from one another in terms of aesthetics and some mechanics, they are basically assault rifles with the same caliber, similar barrel length (~14 inches) and thus perform more or less similarly - both have 500m effective range (point range, if you've read the article); more substantial variation might depend on things like rate of fire between the guns. From there, it might be reasonable to assume for practical purposes that guns with similar caliber and barrel length would have similar range, and you just plug in the value from those guns for that new gun in the absence of accurate info for the new gun.

EDIT: Another bit of balance/accuracy issue for you. I've managed to get an MG42 and that gun is beastly, perhaps overly so. Each burst has 120 rounds fired from it, and its listed RPM ingame is 3600, which is not quite true to life since as I can see the MG42 had a RPM of 1100-1600, 1200 on wikipedia. In its current state, tribal/pirate groups could all be wiped out with a single burst, given some clever use of chokepoints. Not sure if you intend this or not. Rangewise, it might be alright as is, but what I've seen from available sources is that it can either reach out to 2000m (which I think might be the current value you have it set for), while others say that it has a max effective range of 1000m; the latter would bring it more in line with what info I have encountered regarding more modern MGs like the PK and the M60.


EDIT 2: Going back to the MG42, the 120 round burst might not be a realistic option for the gun given that, at least from what I've seen on wikipedia, gunners were instructed not to fire more than 350 rounds in a minute so as to avoid overheating and barrel damage.

In the current version, all sci-fi weapons are "ballparked" because I was too lazy to look up wikias on every single one of the franchises

MG42: The 120 round burst is definitely wrong, as well as the 2 sec (120 tick) warmup for it. Must have made some mistakes while doing the Alpha 7 update. The range for all the weapons is quite inaccurate right now, due to Wikipedia overstating the effective ranges for all of them (well at least they're all overstated in relation to each other). So that too will have to be completely reworked.

[AY]

Interesting, can you elaborate? This might be useful to know since with my whole idea of ballparking the various values I suspect it could have the consequences of making a lot of guns kinda "samey", so anything that can lead to realistic and practical variation between the guns seems like it would be a good thing.

The one value that is completely "samey" is the accuracy for all the weapons. Since I can't find values on the accuracy of most weapons, they are all standardized depending on the "class" of weapons they are. It would be nice if anyone have experience/knowledge on such matters.

[AY]

Posting to see how many people are willing to research on the weapons. If you are interested, you can simply post your name, followed by the categories of weapons you are most interested in (Will try to accommodate but no guarantees)

All Categories of the Weapons:
- Civil War/Flintlock
- Medieval/Neolithic/Tribal
- Modern
- WW1
- WW2
- PreWar
- SciFi
- Melee
- Grenades

[VStraken]

I'm in, but I think you already know that 

I'll stick with my primary focus of looking into modern weapons (assistance welcome), but I'll also see what I can try to find for the sci-fi ones -  and of course, if I find anything regarding weapons from other categories, I'll be sure to bring it up!