Will Research for Food *Sadface*

[Sundaysmile]

Hi guys,

I just wanted to put something up for discussion and open up a topic for suggestions from the community, mainly about science and research and what it needs to stay useful in the game.

Now, I know as well as you all do, that this is an alpha build, so yeah, I’m well aware that content is lacking and will be added at a later time when the build is completed.  But I’m sure you’re all aware that once the colony brainiac has completed all his research projects, he’s resigned to hauling. Sweeping floors, and manual labour.  His MIT degree is really paying for itself, hehe.

So I was thinking, what should a scientist be doing once all his projects are completed?  Well I could only come up with two conclusions.  One, would be maintaining the fruit of his labours, keeping it up and running etc.  And Two, would be passing on the knowledge he has, becoming a tutor and passing on education. 
How would I make this translate into a game mechanic?  I’m not entirely sure… 

Perhaps while at his research station, the scientist confers a small efficiency bonus to energy consumption for all electrical structures/appliances in the colony.  Stackable with the number of scientists conducting research? 
An alternative would be that the scientist could follow another colonist around, and while he does so, the colonist learns skills at a slightly quicker rate?

I’m just trying to keep the Research skill useful once the projects have been exhausted, because honestly, I see no reason to include a scientist within my ranks, while a Settler with 3 points in Research can still do a good enough job, and still be a better builder and harvester than the scientist afterwards. 

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Another note I wanted to touch on was that since these colonists are making a new life for themselves on an unfamiliar world, a researcher would certainly be earning his keep when cataloguing and identifying unknown plantlife and studying local wildlife.  Thus helping to formulate defences against the local fauna and reducing risks in harvesting native plants. 

Things of that nature. 


Thanks for reading.

[ShadowDragon8685]

A scientist who could upgrade the turrets' auto-targeting to shoot at wildlife, and then further upgrade them to, for instance, exclude some types of wildlife, and then lastly upgrade them to target only maddened wildlife, would be nice.

I'm sick of critters wandering around my killboxes... But I don't really want them shooting boomrats indiscriminately, either, for fear of burning the whole fortress down!

Also, it would be nice if the scientist could upgrade the turrets' accuracy, and/or their armor (do turrets even benefit from sandbagging?) and/or give them some kind of heuristic targeting scheme so they get better the longer they survive and the more they fire (which would be another reason for them to shoot at critters, heheh.)

For a sustainable "Science" thing, though, perhaps they can indefinitely research upgrades to the colony's construction techniques, resulting in increased durability for all things - +5 HP at a time. (Maybe it should drop as they continue to research.) More efficient solar/geothermal power plants and batteries would be nice, too.

[Kent Lang]

So I was thinking, what should a scientist be doing once all his projects are completed?  Well I could only come up with two conclusions.  One, would be maintaining the fruit of his labours, keeping it up and running etc.  And Two, would be passing on the knowledge he has, becoming a tutor and passing on education. 
How would I make this translate into a game mechanic?  I’m not entirely sure… 

Maybe that's it? Maybe scientists should be needed to educate the regular colonists on how to build the things they research. I mean what do scientists do when they're not researching stuff: They write books/reports and they hold lectures to teach about their findings. You could put the technology into knowledge that individual colonists know and tie the research skill with a sort of teaching skill. That way anyone who can research can teach but you'll probably want a few dedicated teachers so that you spread it properly. That way research will stay important for the entire game (and if everybody who knew a technology dies or leaves you have to research it over again).

[maxthebeast11]

Hey, Sundaysmile

Your idea in scientists more efficiently managing the distribution of power throughout the colony is really intriguing! I think that this could perhaps tie into managing which parts of the colony and what appliances receive power, so that you may conserve more power within your batteries. Maybe this could open up more research options as well, and adding more layers of depth to managing your colony's resources.

However, what I most fancied about your suggestions was the idea that certain fluara and fuana could be cataloged and studied by your researches. After all, this is an alien planet with unknown and uncharted territories. Who knows what creatures reside on it's surface, or how you may utilize/combat them? Overall, I think that your suggestions make scientists much more relevant and more valuable to have.

[Sundaysmile]

Glad you liked the premise so far, I mean I obviously have no idea what is planned for the future, updates can and will roll in that will change the scope of gameplay and add new depth to the research tiers. 
I’m still pondering what else could the scientists could do besides research, but I’m being more narrow minded in leaning towards education and maintenance of the colony. 

And thanks max for the comment.  I’d originally thought of the idea for the scientist relishing on the whole “David Attenborough” role, sneaking close to hostile and non-hostile wildlife and just watching/studying them quietly hoping they don’t take notice. 
This could allow for the colony to understand when a species is likely to show up, how to hunt it, could it be domesticated? (Muffalo for example), and how to generally better safeguard one’s self from potentially hostile critters. 

The flora aspect is pretty much the herbalism route.  Unlocking new crops, spices to make cooking better and to open up new trade options, drugs for medicine or even illicit contraband, even fibres for cloth could be identified. 
Of course, the option to use unidentified plants for food is still an option, but one that weighs a potential hazard.  If a starving colonist is desperate enough to try eating something that may potentially kill them, then it’s a risk that a starving colonist might have a Mental Breakdown, and start eating something unknown.

All in all, it would make the world itself more interactive, a resource as well as a dangerous hazard.  And learning more and more about it would be part of the fun.  Especially if you open up a LARGE catalogue of randomised animals, plants and biomes to change up the gameplay.

If this were to occur, I’d certainly jump at the chance to include a scientist into my colony, but as of right now.  They’re just spare labour for tilling my crops and sweeping my floors.

[nnescio]

A scientist who could upgrade the turrets' auto-targeting to shoot at wildlife, and then further upgrade them to, for instance, exclude some types of wildlife, and then lastly upgrade them to target only maddened wildlife, would be nice.

I'm sick of critters wandering around my killboxes... But I don't really want them shooting boomrats indiscriminately, either, for fear of burning the whole fortress down!

Also, it would be nice if the scientist could upgrade the turrets' accuracy, and/or their armor (do turrets even benefit from sandbagging?) and/or give them some kind of heuristic targeting scheme so they get better the longer they survive and the more they fire (which would be another reason for them to shoot at critters, heheh.)

For a sustainable "Science" thing, though, perhaps they can indefinitely research upgrades to the colony's construction techniques, resulting in increased durability for all things - +5 HP at a time. (Maybe it should drop as they continue to research.) More efficient solar/geothermal power plants and batteries would be nice, too.

Alternatively, do it similarly to CubeWorld, where the increases in skill bonuses and power level are subject to exponential decay. This acts as a soft cap where the final cumulative bonus will converge to some value.

(Example.)

[chaotix14]

Alternatively, do it similarly to CubeWorld, where the increases in skill bonuses and power level are subject to exponential decay. This acts as a soft cap where the final cumulative bonus will converge to some value.

(Example.)

Or you could use a flat increase, but scaling research doubling the cost every research for example.(10K->20K->40K->80K->160K) Making each new tier of research harder and harder to get, even when your research force increases in efficiency per person and total numbers.

[Sundaysmile]

Alternatively, do it similarly to CubeWorld, where the increases in skill bonuses and power level are subject to exponential decay. This acts as a soft cap where the final cumulative bonus will converge to some value.

(Example.)

Or you could use a flat increase, but scaling research doubling the cost every research for example.(10K->20K->40K->80K->160K) Making each new tier of research harder and harder to get, even when your research force increases in efficiency per person and total numbers.

It's a good idea, but at some point this will cap itself, or reach godlike proportions hehe.

For research longevity I was thinking about an active bonus rather than a progressively increasing one.  Just something to keep our science team researching and not becoming redundant spare labour in the colony.


I dunno though, pretty stumped on ideas for this myself...

[Sky_walker]

So I was thinking, what should a scientist be doing once all his projects are completed?  Well I could only come up with two conclusions.  One, would be maintaining the fruit of his labours, keeping it up and running etc.

Repair. That's already implemented.

And Two, would be passing on the knowledge he has, becoming a tutor and passing on education.

Sounds like you'd be better off by just assigning him for regular duties - whatever small bonuses he might give would unlikely stack enough to make it worthwhile (they won't make 1st guy work twice as hard, will they?)

I’m just trying to keep the Research skill useful once the projects have been exhausted, because honestly, I see no reason to include a scientist within my ranks, while a Settler with 3 points in Research can still do a good enough job, and still be a better builder and harvester than the scientist afterwards. 

Do what you do in real life. Change profession. Assign him to repair, warden or farmer duties. Problem solved.

[Sundaysmile]

So I was thinking, what should a scientist be doing once all his projects are completed?  Well I could only come up with two conclusions.  One, would be maintaining the fruit of his labours, keeping it up and running etc.

Repair. That's already implemented.

And Two, would be passing on the knowledge he has, becoming a tutor and passing on education.

Sounds like you'd be better off by just assigning him for regular duties - whatever small bonuses he might give would unlikely stack enough to make it worthwhile (they won't make 1st guy work twice as hard, will they?)

I’m just trying to keep the Research skill useful once the projects have been exhausted, because honestly, I see no reason to include a scientist within my ranks, while a Settler with 3 points in Research can still do a good enough job, and still be a better builder and harvester than the scientist afterwards. 

Do what you do in real life. Change profession. Assign him to repair, warden or farmer duties. Problem solved.

Pretty much the point I was making....

Scientists are redundant at present.  Any colonist with the research skill can do their job and still be much, MUCH more useful afterwards when the research is complete. 

I'm trying to think of ways to make research and development persistant and not just capped at some point down the line as the game plays out.

Otherwise, I have NO reason to take a scientist into my colony other than to sell them into slavery or to sweep the floors of my colony.

[Sky_walker]

Research isn't complete yet.

Eventually you'll have much deeper research tree, so picking a scientist will be much more profitable in a long term.

[Sundaysmile]

Research isn't complete yet.

Eventually you'll have much deeper research tree, so picking a scientist will be much more profitable in a long term.

I know that sky, which is why I opened up a thread for speculation and discussion on the topic of research longevity and viability.

If we all responded to threads with such comments, this entire suggestions forum would be made redundant.

[Sky_walker]

Not really. Most of the suggestions here try to either add new stuff or fix things that we don't know any "official" fixes for. Meanwhile here we're certain what the fix will be.

Equally well we could have tons of topics about people complaining how there's too few features and AI isn't good enough. Which isn't really needed cause we know that and we know the solution is coming sooner or later.

[Sundaysmile]

Not really. Most of the suggestions here try to either add new stuff or fix things that we don't know any "official" fixes for. Meanwhile here we're certain what the fix will be.

Equally well we could have tons of topics about people complaining how there's too few features and AI isn't good enough. Which isn't really needed cause we know that and we know the solution is coming sooner or later.

We're starting to get offtopic now, so we'll leave it there for now.

If you do however have any thoughts, ideas or suggestions for keeping research viable once projects are exhausted, feel free to leave a comment.

[Harageth]

A scientist who could upgrade the turrets' auto-targeting to shoot at wildlife, and then further upgrade them to, for instance, exclude some types of wildlife, and then lastly upgrade them to target only maddened wildlife, would be nice.

I'm sick of critters wandering around my killboxes... But I don't really want them shooting boomrats indiscriminately, either, for fear of burning the whole fortress down!

Also, it would be nice if the scientist could upgrade the turrets' accuracy, and/or their armor (do turrets even benefit from sandbagging?) and/or give them some kind of heuristic targeting scheme so they get better the longer they survive and the more they fire (which would be another reason for them to shoot at critters, heheh.)

For a sustainable "Science" thing, though, perhaps they can indefinitely research upgrades to the colony's construction techniques, resulting in increased durability for all things - +5 HP at a time. (Maybe it should drop as they continue to research.) More efficient solar/geothermal power plants and batteries would be nice, too.

Indeed. My thought would be a mainframe that you connect the turrets to. You could make the argument that the mainframe has some sort of "Machine learning" algorithm and thus as the turrets continue to work they continue to get better and the bonus is conferred to all turrets connected to the mainframe.