How to bring the colonies out into the open again?

[chaotix14]

The problem with thermobarics here is that they're extremely complicated devices and I suspect would be "overpowered;" i.e. if we represented them realistically it would just instantly kill your entire colony. The nice thing about gas is it gives the player a clear visual indicator that there's danger spreading into their tunnel network and encourages them to quickly respond.

No one's saying we couldn't do both of course. Late-game hostiles could have thermobarics and early-game ones gas. Late-game techs could include blast doors and gas-proof doors too; the former weathering more thermobaric charges before being destroyed and the latter preventing any gas from passing them.

Without a doubt they'd be overpowered, I just mentioned it in reference to Dorf stating poison gas as being the most effective method of clearing out mountains. Seeing something like that get into the game is not something I would see forward to. That stuff is scary and regularly gets used to purge any somewhat enclosed structure that has an entrance and enemies inside.

Funnily enough, those thermobaric bombs are exactly like the crabs, except the crabs make anywhere an entry point.l and have to get the plasma ready for a few minutes. Perhaps they can just stick their plasma hose through and fire that instead? That could be neat.

Quit it with your crabs, we get it you like your crabs, we don't want crabs.(yes I'm talking about the lice)

Anyways as I've said, that was more to disprove a point rather than to actually suggest adding it to the game. I would actually discourage such things to be added to the game. Events and incidents that reasonably can only be countered by preparing beforehand and building/designing structures in a quite specific way(like the current manhunter packs and the ramp up spiral of doom) feel like bullying people into a specific playstyle to me.

[Alpha393]

Yeah I'd hate to see them added too. I was pointing out the similarity as an argument against adding thermobarics, and probably should have made that clearer. Hindsight 20/20 as always.

Anyone have some more carrots? I have some: actual carrots. Grown in large bunches, produces far less when grown in hydroponics, grow a somewhat quickly.

Make raids less common, smaller, and just make the clever AI he default one. Replace clever tactics event with current 'dumb' tactics, and make 'dumb raids' have 'larger' (similar to now) party sizes.

If the storyteller sees that your turrets aren't overlapping much, she'll go easier on you than if they all had a clear line of sight to a single point and all their ranges were overlapping by like 90%

[SpaceDorf]

If the storyteller sees that your turrets aren't overlapping much, she'll go easier on you than if they all had a clear line of sight to a single point and all their ranges were overlapping by like 90%

LOOOOOOL !

If This and the turret count is really high, this should trigger some all-out uber event.

2 Raids and 2 Sieges at once paired with 2 mechanoid ships right in your base !

Announcement should be "Well, you asked for it. "

[Alpha393]

Yes. I like the way you think. All enemy factions decide they've had enough with you mowing down hundreds of them without mercy, and temporarily ally with each other for an uber raid? Potentially with bomb planting objectives?

[chaotix14]

If the storyteller sees that your turrets aren't overlapping much, she'll go easier on you than if they all had a clear line of sight to a single point and all their ranges were overlapping by like 90%

LOOOOOOL !

If This and the turret count is really high, this should trigger some all-out uber event.

2 Raids and 2 Sieges at once paired with 2 mechanoid ships right in your base !

Announcement should be "Well, you asked for it. "

I would be all for something like that. favorably with flavor text per storyteller, to really bring the idea that there actually is someone telling a story behind the scenes.

[Alpha393]

If the storyteller sees that your turrets aren't overlapping much, she'll go easier on you than if they all had a clear line of sight to a single point and all their ranges were overlapping by like 90%

LOOOOOOL !

If This and the turret count is really high, this should trigger some all-out uber event.

2 Raids and 2 Sieges at once paired with 2 mechanoid ships right in your base !

Announcement should be "Well, you asked for it. "

I would be all for something like that. favorably with flavor text per storyteller, to really bring the idea that there actually is someone telling a story behind the scenes.

Cassandra: This is what you get for not playing fair.

Phoebe: nice base you have there. I'd hate to see it burn.

Randy: pause the game and get some popcorn. IT'S TIME FOR A SHOWDOWN!

Sound good?

[SpaceDorf]

--- EDIT ---

Damn you NinjaNoob, I guess great minds think alike

--- EDIT ---

You mean like this ?

"Do you want to build a base or a butchers shop ? - Phoebe "

" I was going slow, but you asked for it.  Sincerely Cassandra "

" THIS. IS. TUESDAY ! - Randy "

[Alpha393]

Sorry

I've had some idea's but most are sticks. Sorry.

Raiders that will attempt to burn out killboxes with molotovs, grenades, and rockets.

Storyteller starts sending more rockets equipped on higher shooting stat characters when a killbox is detected and does not stop adding more explosives to raids until the killbox is destroyed/crippled.

Sappers sometimes take the path of average resistance. Meaning, they dig towards the middle of the base and avoid the killbox at all costs.

Extremely small and weak thermobaric charges (at least compared to some craziness that they do IRL) that are deployed as a last resort by the storyteller to break a killbox. I absolutely despise this idea, just adding it because it's an idea.

A battering ram melee weapon that wrecks doors and buildings quickly, but deals little damage to softer targets.

And now for some carrots:

A huge mood bonus for being outdoors: 'enjoying nature +50' or something. Applies whenever they're outdoors and wears off after an hour or so.

A smaller mood bonus that applies as long as they are not under mountain roof 'view of nature +10' maybe?

Lastly: make nature not ugly. Long grass shouldn't be so ugly. Shallow and deep water should provide huge beauty effects. Just being outside should give a decent beauty stat.

[SpaceDorf]

Sorry

I've had some idea's but most are sticks. Sorry.

Raiders that will attempt to burn out killboxes with molotovs, grenades, and rockets.

Storyteller starts sending more rockets equipped on higher shooting stat characters

Sappers sometimes take the path of average resistance. Meaning, they dig towards the middle of the base and avoid the killbox at all costs.

A battering ram melee weapon that wrecks doors and buildings quickly, but deals little damage to softer targets.

And now for some carrots:

A smaller mood bonus that applies as long as they are not under mountain roof 'view of nature +10' maybe?

Lastly: make nature not ugly. Long grass shouldn't be so ugly. Shallow and deep water should provide huge beauty effects. Just being outside should give a decent beauty stat.

Those are some yummie carrots.
I allready suggested somewhere else that the Pawns should have thoughts about the weather in general.
Hate Rain, Love Rain, Afraid of Thunder, Does not Like outsides

And those outdoor thoughts are the main reason why my yard is a flower plantation

The battering ram and more rockets are perfect sticks. Small change, Huge Impact.
I would also propose that the Large Ordinance Guys go for doors or exposed turrets.
Same goes for Snipers who easily outrange everything.

What would also make for better attacks would be if the attackers moved in formation.
Especially high tech enemies should be trained.
I know this would be a huge A.I workout. which could be eased by the implementation of some chain of command
( guy who is center of the formation ) and specialist behaviors ( I will not throw grenades at my own melee troops )

[chaotix14]

"Do you wanna have a bad time?" - Sans.


Here's a good idea how about traders come by more frequently and with more stuff, if you don't welcome them with 50 fully autonomous guns aimed at their faces?

[Kegereneku]

Late to the party, this thread go fast.

Because colonies never had walls?
When you live on the fringe and can get attacked at any time, a wall makes perfect sense.
Or at the very least, semi-walls, half-walls and bunkers

Yeah your new to history and life if you don't know colonies have walls, even old american colonies had walls because of the natives and what not they put wooden walls till they tamed the land.

Yea, if you don't want walls you'll need to just straight up remove enemies. It's only in modern times that walls have been an obsolete structure, because there are just no major threats that can be stopped with them.

I noticed past tense in all of your posts, that's because Defensive Wall belong to the past and they weren't common for village or anything not a Military base or OLD gigantic city. "Fort Alamo" was a military base, old western town weren't, notice the lack of walls despite very common brigands and natives.
If American Redneck town were to defend themselves against para-military group, they wouldn't build up wall perimeter, they would fire from within the village and relocate if a mortar was used.
The same way the protection against Packs of Predator were not walls (and barely fence) it was shooting the damn things until they go extinct or fear for their life.

Most the reasons that made defensive wall useful before disappeared with gunpowder and the few reasons left only exist because Rimworld's gameplay & events enforce it : making strong walls ridiculously easy to build. (the post of Peng Qi was constructive on the matter)
Wire-fence would be more logical. But unless we nerf mountain-bunker and farm-fortress we would only be killing open-colony even more.

That plus obviously the NON-COMBAT advantage we are searching for open-base, like preventing easy indoor farming, or making Raider not fanatically suicidal.
My point stand : We don't want to be FORCED to build perimeter wall, especially since only one or two events enforce them
Build them if that's your style, but we need disadvantage that don't make Bunker/Fortress obligatory or even ridiculously better.

If we can agree that perimeter wall shouldn't be needed or superior, only then can we work on getting colony into the open.

Walls are most decidedly NOT an obsolete defensive structure. They're not used in our cities and towns because there is no reasonable expectation that we're going to be assaulted by an external force, and that is the sole reason. In any part of the world where there is active conflict, you can bet your ass that walls are absolutely everywhere.

Defensive Walls ARE obsolete, unless you equal any obstruction or wire-fence to a wall. The best the army use now is LOT of sand/soil-bag, first meant to prevent sniping and keep civil out, not resist direct-artillery like some person here would like.
The modern warfare paradigm is simple : Shoot First, if you let a enemy reach you with artillery you have already failed (and the same walls will be your tomb)

[DariusWolfe]

When was the last time you were overseas in a hostile area, just curious?

Because it's not been that long for me, and I'm just gonna say this: You're wrong. Our COPs and FOBs are surrounded by walls easily capable of withstanding any direct-fire weapon system the enemy can field, and anything but a direct hit from an actual mortar or rocket (and even most of those wouldn't actually cause a major breach; Just something we'd have to put extra security on until the Engineers could repair it) For this reason, attempts to assault the bases are exceedingly rare. Rockets and mortars are used to try to inflict damage and injury to targets inside the walls, and direct fire attacks are primarily targeted ambushes on patrols and civilian targets outside of those walls. Further, the insides of the bases are criss-crossed with walls to limit the damage of indirect fire weaponry.

Old western towns didn't have walls because hostile attacks weren't actually all that common, your average Western movie notwithstanding. It's similar to how I rarely build walls before the first raid or two; The threat is small enough that just turning out a couple of good shooters are enough to break the raid before it becomes a big threat. Once you're starting to deal with medium to large raiding parties though, you'd better have some real defenses.

"American Rednecks" would be an insurgency by necessity, if facing against any sort of organized military force. Further, they'd be operating in areas with extensive infrastructure, or they'd be extremely mobile, having temporary camps that could be broken down or abandoned at a moment's notice. I'm sure if you consider a moment, this does NOT sound anything like a Rimworld colony.

Seriously, do some research or go home. I've been to both Iraq and Afghanistan, and I stand a pretty good chance of going back overseas in the near future. I'm a former Armor Crewman and a former Artilleryman/Forward Observer, with a lot of time spent at Battalion and Brigade-level Operations Centers. I know what I'm talking about from boots on the ground up to the birds in the sky. While there are certainly people more expert than I am, they're not currently chiming in on this thread.


Also:

Rocks Fall ( everybody dies )

I see what you did there...

[Alpha393]

I'd hate to get caught in the crossfire, but could we break this up before the mods lock the thread and/or ban us all?

Walls are up to the player, let's just leave it at that, shall we?

Have another three carrots: hydroelectric power and bridge/Boardwalk flooring. Boardwalks work as advertised, providing support to structures. Will burn away in fires. Cannot be placed over deep water. Bridges can be placed over deep water, but cannot hold structures. Can still hold up sandbags though.

[chaotix14]

Have another three carrots: hydroelectric power and bridge/Boardwalk flooring. Boardwalks work as advertised, providing support to structures. Will burn away in fires. Cannot be placed over deep water. Bridges can be placed over deep water, but cannot hold structures. Can still hold up sandbags though.

Island fortress? With added bridge self destruct options in case of emergency(if the bridges burn too)... Sounds awesome.

[Alpha393]

And then you get trapped there and starve. 

Yet another carrot:

Concrete barricades that can be installed and uninstalled, alongside being able to prioritize construction/repair work for drafted people.

Provides better cover than a sandbag, is 3 tiles wide, but only has the health of two sandbags.

Maybe just add a right click option to deploy barricades and recieve the placement menu as a faster way to prioritize it?

Bipod/tripod effect: when shooting over sandbags/barricades with a sniper, minigun, LMG, or incendiary/explosive launcher, pawns receive an accuracy buff and maybe an aiming speed buff.

The result? Rise of the combat engies. And the snipers. Or something. Dunno where I was going with that.