How to bring the colonies out into the open again?

[christhekiller]

How about an enemy that lives in the mountains. So mining deep into one brings the risk of antagonizing a small horde of them. They'd be a pain in the ass for early game folk to build in and cancel out the relative safety of digging deep.

[Wex]

A fungus that eats away at machinery and power cables. Like a weed. It could be waked, but will regrow in time. Also, let it grow enough and it will clog rooms and corridors, requiring miners to break it down; the catch? It dies instantly (vaporizing) if exposed to sunlight.

[Mathenaut]

Dwarving is not a max efficiency approach and scaling down the threats doesn't change a bit for players that are set in their ways. Other playstiles are viable and I personally will never tire to repeat that, might others hear the good news.

The efficiency of dwarvng is sort of what's on trial here because of how efficient it is over other development avenues - ontop of nullifying arguably one of the biggest late-game threats (drop-pods onto the colony).

The only problem I see with most of the suggestions so far is that few of the solutions amount to more than just more turrets in the base or problems that will punish non-dwarving in equal measure (which defeats the purpose, frankly).

[ComradeCrimson]

Here's my three suggestions to help this out, just thought of.

The reason why men moved out of caves was due to the inherit dangers with in it. It's damp, they are dark, and there is even potential gas leaks and cave ins.

Cave ins already occur. We could have caves, if the cave floors aren't paved over and the walls replaced with built ones, should have a damp or unclean affect that can risk sickness to colonists, and there should be pockets within caves where if you mine into them it'll unleash a pocket of poisonous gases and fumes. And on that note, there should be a musty/stale air effect that makes colonists unhappy. There should also be cases of flooding as well from liquids like water, maybe even magma flow depending on the geography.

With all of these, there can also be new utilities you can have to help you WITH caving on the other hand, or simply mining:

Canaries and other gas detection devices or alarms. Colonists could carry these birds or devices with them (as well as flashlights) and they indicate if gas leaks are imminent by the bird dying/being suffocated by the gas, giving ample time to get out of there, or the alarm for your device going off.

Some caves may even have radiation too because they might house nuclear warheads or radioactive leftovers of some civilization past, or even just radioactive materials like naturally occurring Uranium.

[Dickhat]

Didn't read the whole thread so it might have been suggested already but caravans would be a pretty cool thing too. Since we have visitors that come by foot to our colony how about having trading caravans coming too? Maybe even ships or something like that in the future?

[Mathenaut]

"The reason why men moved out of caves was due to the inherit dangers with in it."

The reason why men moved out of caves is because we could build better caves.  We call them houses.

[stefanstr]

Just because you find it easier to build a mountain base doesn't mean you have to, it's your choice. Changing mining won't solve anything.

I disagree with you, jaeden25. I am not a masochist, and if I have two choices, and one is superior in every way, I take that choice. I hate the kind of argument you're making. "If you want, you can challenge yourself and play a different way." No, I want to play the game the way it was intended. And if a mountain colony is optimal in every way, I have to assume it is the intended play style.

(One example: smooth floors don't require any resources, and yet are almost on par with carpets when it comes to boosting the mood.)

[TrashMan]

How about air vents and air filtration system for cave colonies?
That way you have to spend some additional time and resources for cave colonies.

Stale, suffocating air reduces work efficiency.

I don't see any change to mining necessary - with the new materials and everything, digging can be quite slow at times (depending on what kind of material you are digging trough)

[jaeden25]

Just because you find it easier to build a mountain base doesn't mean you have to, it's your choice. Changing mining won't solve anything.

I disagree with you, jaeden25. I am not a masochist, and if I have two choices, and one is superior in every way, I take that choice. I hate the kind of argument you're making. "If you want, you can challenge yourself and play a different way." No, I want to play the game the way it was intended. And if a mountain colony is optimal in every way, I have to assume it is the intended play style.

(One example: smooth floors don't require any resources, and yet are almost on par with carpets when it comes to boosting the mood.)

You can't use that as an argument lol, This game is a sandbox, there is no 'intended' way to play. In fact do you really think the intended way to play would be to dig into a mountain and build a killbox? It's abuse of the AI, there is nothing intended about it.

Further proof that this is not the intended way to play would be to play a flat map, now tell me about how mountain colonies are the intended way to play.

[ShadowDragon8685]

You can't use that as an argument lol, This game is a sandbox, there is no 'intended' way to play. In fact do you really think the intended way to play would be to dig into a mountain and build a killbox? It's abuse of the AI, there is nothing intended about it.

By that argument, everything the player does is "abuse of the AI." The player sends snipers out to harass the AI into attacking before they're ready? Abusing the siege AI! The player digs in and builds killboxes? Abusing the zergrush AI! The player rushes hydroponics tech early because they know that a hydroponics room locked deep inside their base is faster, safer and more reliable than natural growing or hunting? Abusing the food system AI!

[jaeden25]

You can't use that as an argument lol, This game is a sandbox, there is no 'intended' way to play. In fact do you really think the intended way to play would be to dig into a mountain and build a killbox? It's abuse of the AI, there is nothing intended about it.

By that argument, everything the player does is "abuse of the AI." The player sends snipers out to harass the AI into attacking before they're ready? Abusing the siege AI! The player digs in and builds killboxes? Abusing the zergrush AI! The player rushes hydroponics tech early because they know that a hydroponics room locked deep inside their base is faster, safer and more reliable than natural growing or hunting? Abusing the food system AI!

No, that's not how it works. Abusing siege AI is sending 1 colonist closer to the mortar so the mortar doesn't shoot your base. Building killboxes abuses choke points to kill large amounts of enemies with little risk. The turrets or the enemy are not to blame for this, it is the choke point abuse itself. You look at any RTS game and show me one where nobody abuses choke points, you cannot blame turrets for this playstyle. Not even sure you can abuse 'the food AI' so that was kind of a ridiculous point to argue.

[Produno]

Something else to take note of.

When colonists are inside a spacious interior, they recieve a +5 to happyness. Yet when out in the open air with the wind blowing through their hair and fields as far as the eye can see.... Nothing.

You already get a natural feel good factor from the sun through vitamin D, plus other factors i wont go into. The only reason i can think you would be happier inside an interior is if there was a hurricane or your colony was freezing over.

[Varnhagen]

You can't use that as an argument lol, This game is a sandbox, there is no 'intended' way to play. In fact do you really think the intended way to play would be to dig into a mountain and build a killbox? It's abuse of the AI, there is nothing intended about it.

Further proof that this is not the intended way to play would be to play a flat map, now tell me about how mountain colonies are the intended way to play.

He said: He has to assume it is the intended way. And there sure are intended ways to do stuff in a sandbox. It's when players circumvent the expectation and start doing things the hard way just for fun's sake. Minecraft wasn't designed to be a CAD miniature model simulator. Yet people started building landmarks instead of following the survival and crafting gameplay. And that's totally fine.
And stefanstr is right when he says, that players assumption about the devs intentions influence a playing behavior. Once you see how thinks work and what mechanics are at play every sane player would stick to the well-known and obvious. Turrets are obvious. Building choke points is obvious. You can't carry your turrets to the enemy, thus the enemy has to be funneled into the gaping maw of turret-meat-grinder. Whether you do it in a mountain or roof your outside colony results in the same experience.
I have been building mountain and open forts with kill-boxes since alpha2. Only half way through alpha 6 I came on this very forum to a post, that said: "I haven't build turrets in months." In months? But how do I defend against these massive doomstacks, I pondered. It was possible in A6, and in A7 with its colonist repairability it's even easier.

It's true: Building killboxes and dwarving is choice. But not a conscious one. It is an ill-informed decision, because most facts aren't known. As you said correctly, it is exploitative to the AI but under duress most wouldn't consider changing their approach and go back to use this and only this exploit. "300 enemies! What could I do instead!? More turrets, better Boxes!"
Thus this (mostly unpalatable) thread. How to bring the colonies out in the open again? Or worded differently: How to offer a more varied gaming experience?

[Varnhagen]

By that argument, everything the player does is "abuse of the AI." The player sends snipers out to harass the AI into attacking before they're ready? Abusing the siege AI! The player digs in and builds killboxes? Abusing the zergrush AI! The player rushes hydroponics tech early because they know that a hydroponics room locked deep inside their base is faster, safer and more reliable than natural growing or hunting? Abusing the food system AI!

Nope, that's gaming. The particular exploit lies in the pathfinding. A band of 100+ raiders could easily penetrate 5 rows of stonewall if they were concentrating their fire on a single tile. Instead they "path" the easy way into the base, directly through the kill-zone. The AI doesn't consider getting into the firing zones of multiple turrets with no-where to stand and fight back from a less than optimal proposition. The AI doesn't know, that breaking the wall is easier. The exploit lies in covering the ground in stuff, denying the AI secure footing.
Playing the game is not exploiting the game. Rimworld ain't no hoe!

[jaeden25]

You can't use that as an argument lol, This game is a sandbox, there is no 'intended' way to play. In fact do you really think the intended way to play would be to dig into a mountain and build a killbox? It's abuse of the AI, there is nothing intended about it.

Further proof that this is not the intended way to play would be to play a flat map, now tell me about how mountain colonies are the intended way to play.

He said: He has to assume it is the intended way. And there sure are intended ways to do stuff in a sandbox. It's when players circumvent the expectation and start doing things the hard way just for fun's sake. Minecraft wasn't designed to be a CAD miniature model simulator. Yet people started building landmarks instead of following the survival and crafting gameplay. And that's totally fine.
And stefanstr is right when he says, that players assumption about the devs intentions influence a playing behavior. Once you see how thinks work and what mechanics are at play every sane player would stick to the well-known and obvious. Turrets are obvious. Building choke points is obvious. You can't carry your turrets to the enemy, thus the enemy has to be funneled into the gaping maw of turret-meat-grinder. Whether you do it in a mountain or roof your outside colony results in the same experience.
I have been building mountain and open forts with kill-boxes since alpha2. Only half way through alpha 6 I came on this very forum to a post, that said: "I haven't build turrets in months." In months? But how do I defend against these massive doomstacks, I pondered. It was possible in A6, and in A7 with its colonist repairability it's even easier.

It's true: Building killboxes and dwarving is choice. But not a conscious one. It is an ill-informed decision, because most facts aren't known. As you said correctly, it is exploitative to the AI but under duress most wouldn't consider changing their approach and go back to use this and only this exploit. "300 enemies! What could I do instead!? More turrets, better Boxes!"
Thus this (mostly unpalatable) thread. How to bring the colonies out in the open again? Or worded differently: How to offer a more varied gaming experience?

Well, just because some people cannot stop themselves playing the easiest option, that doesn't warrant a change in the game I'm sorry. Changes should be restricted to GENUINE problems, not these weird complaint's where people feel they have no choice when they clearly do lol.