How to bring the colonies out into the open again?

[stefanstr]

@Arcfault - good points about dwarfing and about creating a thriving colony vs military outpost.

I feel like we are lacking a storyteller based on the former goal. You could say Phoebe, but Phoebe's underlying logic is the exact same as Cassandra's. The only difference being that the assaults don't happen as frequently.

I feel we will need some more variation between the storytellers down the line, taking more factors into account. An example off the top of my head:

Trevor the Trader: drives the story around wealth and prosperity (e.g., if he sees you are a major cotton producer, the prices of cotton could start dropping as a negative event; raiders would have a new goal to steal your goods... stuff like that) - this storyteller wouldn't try to screw you over militarily but would aim at creating interesting economical challenges

Diana the Diplomat - the main tension in the game would be around foreign relations. I assume there will be some more evolved diplomacy system down the line, and this storyteller would focus on that.

[Roadie]

I like the idea of a force field generator of some kind that requires being deployed in an open space. If it deflected mortar shells and drop pods (presumably they'd end up in an unblocked square outside the force field), it'd help with the biggest reasons for people to automatically decide to burrow.

Maybe it could be something like the Gungan force fields in Star Wars, where it blocks shots going in either direction, but can be slowly walked through (giving the border square a low walk speed like shallow water).

[Johnny Masters]

This is the best summary of the problem I have seen on this thread.

It unravels the core issue with RimWorld, I think. RimWorld is still in its infancy and I feel like it hasn't been decided yet what the focus of the game should be. Is it a tower defense game? An economical simulator? A survival game?

I think this is the fundamental question that needs to be answered first. If this game is supposed to be a tower defense game then there is nothing wrong with how things play out currently. If it is supposed to be more of an economical colony simulator, then the whole progression of assaults needs some serious rethinking. Etc.

I am actually thinking about setting up a poll to find out what aspects of the game people enjoy the most. It might help Tynan make the decision on what this game should be focusing on.

Well, yeah, this is the core of my thoughts that I've been posting here for a while. Just saying 

I like the poll idea, I'm curious to what people think the game should be directed to. Might be worthwhile to discuss first as to what to exactly ask 'tho.

[johny17202]

@Arcfault - good points about dwarfing and about creating a thriving colony vs military outpost.

I feel like we are lacking a storyteller based on the former goal. You could say Phoebe, but Phoebe's underlying logic is the exact same as Cassandra's. The only difference being that the assaults don't happen as frequently.

I feel we will need some more variation between the storytellers down the line, taking more factors into account. An example off the top of my head:

Trevor the Trader: drives the story around wealth and prosperity (e.g., if he sees you are a major cotton producer, the prices of cotton could start dropping as a negative event; raiders would have a new goal to steal your goods... stuff like that) - this storyteller wouldn't try to screw you over militarily but would aim at creating interesting economical challenges

Diana the Diplomat - the main tension in the game would be around foreign relations. I assume there will be some more evolved diplomacy system down the line, and this storyteller would focus on that.

I like where your going with this i think some varied storytellers would definately be good, I don't know though it kind of feels like all of that should be part of every game not just specific storytellers you know the whole package deal like survive bandit attacks, make deals with other factions, build your own faction and deal with pirates, natural disasters, diplomacy and trade all in one awesome package.

[stefanstr]

@Johny

I know. My examples were very poor - first thing that came to my mind at the moment.

Of course, every game should have every type of challenge. I think that storytellers give us a unique opportunity: we could decide upfront what we want the *story* to revolve around.

E.g., if I want to build a cotton plantation and see how well I can do financially, I don't want Cassandra send me to an early grave. What I want, though, is challenges related to trade.

Conversely, if I want to see how well I can defend against ever increasing attacks, then Cassandra is perfect.

[Arcfault]

@Arcfault - good points about dwarfing and about creating a thriving colony vs military outpost.

I feel like we are lacking a storyteller based on the former goal. You could say Phoebe, but Phoebe's underlying logic is the exact same as Cassandra's. The only difference being that the assaults don't happen as frequently.

I feel we will need some more variation between the storytellers down the line, taking more factors into account. An example off the top of my head:

Trevor the Trader: drives the story around wealth and prosperity (e.g., if he sees you are a major cotton producer, the prices of cotton could start dropping as a negative event; raiders would have a new goal to steal your goods... stuff like that) - this storyteller wouldn't try to screw you over militarily but would aim at creating interesting economical challenges

Diana the Diplomat - the main tension in the game would be around foreign relations. I assume there will be some more evolved diplomacy system down the line, and this storyteller would focus on that.

I agree that having storytellers geared to non-com play styles would better cater to those players who want a more "relatively" peaceful playtime. I don't think combat should be removed completely as it can create tension and reflect the pioneer aspect that many "sci-fi" colonies would face. But I also agree with stefanstr, in that these features should also be factored into the other storytellers as well as these are key gameplay mechanics that would really spin some events around.

I would say that the storytellers should weight the AI preferences and events based upon their preferred story guidelines ("Trevor the Trader" for instance, wouldn't remove pirates or bandits and mechanoids from the game, he would just have their AIs behave differently and be more open to diplomacy versus Cassandra or Randy).

[Arcfault]

Also, I agree 100% that there does need to be more technological research options for defensive tech. Instead of just an increase in shot count to turrets, how about different weapon turrets such as plasma based (less ammo based but higher energy requirement), mines, AA/flak weaponry, windows (both to increase moods for those of us who dwarf and to both provide defensive points and possible access points for invaders) and shields. I would also hope that eventually tech could be stacked on items (e.g. turrets with faster cool down, higher ammo count, and laser or computer controlled targeting from a central colony CPU core. All of those researched as individual tech).

[stefanstr]

@Arcfault. I fully agree that every storyteller should give you every kind of challenge. Without any assaults, the game would become boring for sure.

Regarding windows, I really cannot understand why they aren't in the game yet.

Edit: people are using butchering tables as makeshift windows anyway, so why not give us the real thing?

[Johnny Masters]

@Arcfault. I fully agree that every storyteller should give you every kind of challenge. Without any assaults, the game would become boring for sure.

I strongly disagree with this. Several (if not most) strategy games usually involves at least a military and/or economical approach, although of course its usually a combination of both.

Games like stronghold and space colony have whole branches dedicated to economical missions and they IMO are better than the military ones.

[stefanstr]

@Arcfault. I fully agree that every storyteller should give you every kind of challenge. Without any assaults, the game would become boring for sure.

I strongly disagree with this. Several (if not most) strategy games usually involves at least a military and/or economical approach, although of course its usually a combination of both.

Games like stronghold and space colony have whole branches dedicated to economical missions and they IMO are better than the military ones.

Your point being? I am not quite sure what you are disagreeing with.

[Johnny Masters]

That the game need assaults to be fun, as in every single game/game mode/ director you have to have assaults to have a fun experience.

[Thunder Rahja]

I don't even build underground. Individual structures and clever micromanagement during assaults makes my colonies last. I don't build sandbags either.

[Johnny Masters]

what director, challenge setting and alpha version do you play?

[EBrown]

I just recently started building an exterior base, and I find it much more pleasing than an underground base, simply because it's faster to build a structure. If I need a new room I don't have to mine out an area to place it.

That being said, I think mountain bases are easier defensively.

However, to draw people out I think something along the lines of using water could work. As it stands, water is just assumed provided. However, were the player forced to collect water/filter water it would drag a new dynamic into play. If you could build a quick filtration system on a swamp to create drinking water, but could also build a much more expensive and inefficient well to drill the aquifer, it would force players to make a decision. If digging the well were to take forever through stone, and less time through dirt, it would encourage outdoor building.

Thanks,
EBrown

[TemplarGFX]

I am pretty newb to the game, so forgive me if I'm missing some fundamental stuff that would change these ideas.

I personally think mining into mountains is a little too easy. Once your Colony is a decent size, you can cut out entire mountains in a day or two in game. Which is just overboard I think.
Perhaps add another type of rock that is deeper into mountains that is harder to cut through (or better yet, requires a special tool, or dangerous explosives) so that as you get deeper in, the rock becomes harder and takes longer to mine.

I thought sieges were awesome, it gave me another idea.  How about hunters and other specialised groups landing on your map, and setting up their own base to do their own things. They could be neutral or hostile, but not attack you, instead just defend their area.  They could start roaming the map taking resources or killing deer/boar which could inhibit your colony requiring you to take action against them, or change your colony to suit.