Internal vs external problems

[Headshotkill]

This is something I've been thinking of for a long time, for as long as this game has been in alpha actually. The key aspect of a game like Dwarf fortress is it's internal system tracking relations and many other factors within the group you're playing. Personally I think it's time for this game to start focusing less on fighting of raids or withstanding sieges and instead begin adding more complex problems that can last a whole game like rivalries between two persons who want control over the group or someone who just doesn't like aliens... See how over time people go from barely knowing each other to forming strong bonds or hate that could spark a deathly situation in which the group is split in two camps by sometimes a small discussion.

[Dieform]

Why is this an either-or situation?

[Tynan]

Great poll idea, but I really wish it were broken into more categories. I feel combat/raids should be its own category at least.

[MajorFordson]

Hmmm, given the limited control over pawns players currently have, "internal" conflicts like you stated are extremely hard to control. They will become more interesting when the player has more options along the lines of telling colonists to take a day off to improve their mood or peacefully restrain them for psychological treatment etc

[Lechai]

Id personally like to see an 'arcade machine' or 'billiards' table item that increase happiness so we can make a 'rec room'
That way 'idle' colonists can at least do something to improve their mood as opposed to wandering aimlessly.

[Asdelbr]

I like the idea of internal conflicts but I feel the game isn't really designed for it.  The other side of this is that I don't want this turning into the Sims.  Right now this is the best colony management game I've played in a long time.

I think the things that I'd most like to see before any kind of internal conflict are, specifically, a more advanced warfare/diplomacy system.  We have this giant world map where our colonies are landing now, wouldn't it be cool if either a) they could interact with each other or b) we could at least launch assaults on the various pirate bases?  It'd give us more long term projects, such as vehicles that could hold various amounts of people and gear for these raids.
 
Furthermore, I think it'd be cool if when the other outposts and what not (friendlies) came to visit, I could actually chat them up and maybe have one of them go "hey these people aren't too bad, maybe I'll join up", and on the flip side "hey they have it much better at that colony over there, let's go."  I think the current thoughts/mood system is a little too temperamental for it to be based on that, but some sort of long term happiness gauge would be interesting.  That could also play into the above suggestion for the need for an entertainment room.

I also think the ability to raid other colonies/pirate bases presents a lot of really interesting combat scenarios and possibilities.  What if, when they carry my poor colonist off, I had the ability to go attack their base and get them back?  What if we got to play the "siege" role, instead of just watching our poor colony get blown to hell every 30 days or so?  What if in my daring raid I had to make the decision between using explosives, taking prisoners or not, etc?  I think those are all more interesting external possibilities that I'd like to see developed before internal struggle and conflict.

Although I do think it'd be interesting to have some sort of family growth and what not, in the spirit of Banished.  I really like the idea of having an entertainment thing too.  I often wonder how my colonists go so long without anything to look forward to other than waking up and getting their arm blown off by some damn robot.

[Ink.]

I like the idea of internal conflicts but I feel the game isn't really designed for it.  The other side of this is that I don't want this turning into the Sims.  Right now this is the best colony management game I've played in a long time.

Managing internal conflicts is part of the colony management process. As much as there are other people out there willing to harm or halt your progress that you have to manage (environment, animals, people). You would have the same internally (moods, relationships, direction of focus). It's not just about who is more tactically sound, you or the AI, it's about managing your colony and how you handle the internal drama as well as the external drama.

I agree, it shouldn't be a Sims replica but the internal conflicts should be just as important as the external ones.

---

As for the topic. I really wish there was an either or option. I'm fine with either internal or external threats, combat or non-combat activities, as a focus. If anything though, in whichever direction, the focus should definitely lie in fleshing out whats needed and making sure what IS there works. Nothing would be worse for something to break on one end or be necessary and focus completely shifts away.

[keylocke]

Why is this an either-or situation?

agreed, why not both?

[ShadowTani]

I want more of both obviously; but if I really have to chose I'd pick internal (which I also voted for), because most updates have been focused on external conflicts so far and thus it would be a nice change of phase. I'd like current systems to be fleshed out as much as possible first though, like things requiring the art and research skills.

[Dieform]

Id personally like to see an 'arcade machine' or 'billiards' table item that increase happiness so we can make a 'rec room'
That way 'idle' colonists can at least do something to improve their mood as opposed to wandering aimlessly.

Agree-- I'd actually take it a step further and suggest people should have preferences for different types of recreation (enjoy nature, play video game, read a book, chess, etc).

Great poll idea, but I really wish it were broken into more categories. I feel combat/raids should be its own category at least.

As for other categories-- I'd really like the ability to counter act some architectural issues, like surge faults and the ability to completely close off a door way (a dead drop wall) in emergency. Also, to be able to move/upgrade items instead of fully destroying and rebuilding them. Right now electricity and architectural designs are my biggest worry outside of event balance.

[keylocke]

I want more of both obviously; but if I really have to chose I'd pick internal (which I also voted for), because most updates have been focused on external conflicts so far and thus it would be a nice change of phase. I'd like current systems to be fleshed out as much as possible first though, like things requiring the art and research skills.

i chose internal too.. (i wanted to choose both, but there wasn't any option)

however, as Dieform has pointed out, the way the poll was set-up for this thread makes the "choices" very limited.. there isn't even a third choice where people can choose "both", which is why the results is gonna be very skewed.

on one hand, dealing with "external" problems is the norm for rimworld (raiders, mechs, animals, etc), while dealing with "internal" problems seems to be like betting on a dark horse, since normal people will tend to choose a safe vote (what they already know), than gamble on an unknown..

besides, most people aren't even sure what those "internal" problems are gonna be like.. are we talking about crime & punishment? relationships? insurrection? addiction? moral decay? etc? the topic itself is quite broad.

which is why it really can't be boiled down to an either/or situation, 'coz it's gonna leave the wrong impression for most people. 

(especially to people who wants "both")

[ShadowTani]

besides, most people aren't even sure what those "internal" problems are gonna be like.. are we talking about crime & punishment? relationships? insurrection? addiction? moral decay? etc? the topic itself is quite broad.

Well, I'm personally thinking about seeing a start of the suggested features on Rimworlds kickstarter, which listed relationships and beliefs/religions among other. Take a look here: http://i.imgur.com/SybxBQO.png

[keylocke]

besides, most people aren't even sure what those "internal" problems are gonna be like.. are we talking about crime & punishment? relationships? insurrection? addiction? moral decay? etc? the topic itself is quite broad.

Well, I'm personally thinking about seeing a start of the suggested features on Rimworlds kickstarter, which listed relationships and beliefs/religions among other. Take a look here: http://i.imgur.com/SybxBQO.png

thanks. i saw rimworld when it was already on alpha 1, so i kinda missed that part.

----

some interesting bits i like from that pic : 

* find and research artifacts
* beliefs and religions
* friendships, romances, and rivalries.
* departed/captured characters may return as pirates.

[RawCode]

*internal* threats are extremely hard to implement without severe negative effects on gameplay.

most suggested features are ripped from sims and not applicable for colony simulator.

current implementation of mood is nice sample of bad thing - there is no reward for keeping you colonists happy,
but ever when you do everything right, ever when colony facing mortal threat, someone can break and try to leave (walking right into gunfire line) because gone hungry or tired.

same will happen with personal relationship, love interest, religion or whatever.
due to PVE competitive nature of game, this will force player to get "best" combination of colonists ignoring any story component.
if player attempt to role play - he will suffer.

It will be nice to see something like:

each colonist have it's own interests, you (player) set "home area" and colonist automatically (without player interaction) set them up.
Space marine will set up futuristic room with armory.
Tribal will place animal skins and fireplace (ignoring electric lamps).
Colonist with medical background will setup hospital right inside his room.

Same with weapons and gear.
Tribals will prefer melee weapons and leather armor, spacer will prefer power armor and energy weapon.
Non violent colonists will pick up "MAKE LOVE NOT WAR" signs and walk around adsorbing enemy bullets.

Unlike love interest and other useless features that interesting only for few minutes, such system will both express colonist individuality and have gameplay value - player may distribute roles, setup room locations and colony will build itself, allowing player to focus on more interesting things.