(Alpha 7) Sooner535's Weapon Pack V0.5B (Updated with dual wield!)

Started by Sooner535, October 07, 2014, 05:02:05 PM

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Clibanarius

Same, I appreciate balance a ton. I don't know how perfect it is, but this Weapon Balancer might be the exact perfect thing to use for a rough idea. https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=5364.0

Nopkar

Quote from: thrakkemarn on October 09, 2014, 06:02:23 PM
Took some time and put all the weapons into a spreadsheet with comparisons to vanilla weapons, some interesting things appear:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FyOWhRylxnjdkktMAuUf2w0S3RyfdKAV0NNAWbH5vhg/edit?usp=sharing

Used the wiki formula for calculating RoF and DPS. Take a gander.

I love your guns but I think for the sake of gameplay (which I value over realism) I might just balance out a lot of the guns within their categories. Tweaking the warmup vs cooldown vs burst tick to equalize target acquisition times etc. Changing the lightsaber to not be so ridiculously OP. Also, getting rid of the <1% long range guns is probably going to be needed for the AI. Don't take this the wrong way I LOVE what you're doing I just have a few nitpicks (that are mostly my personal preference anyway).

let us know what you come up with! I find the LMG's are...under-powered? They're amazing if you're 10 feet away but without direct hits they're kinda just shock and awe weapons as they rarely hit with any gusto. The problem I think stems from a lack of 'suppression' mechanic where an enemy taking heavy fire will seek cover instead of returning fire during a volley.

Oh! quick request! any way we could get a bazooka or some equivalent explosive launcher? noticing a lack of explosions in my colonies

thrakkemarn

Yeah if you look you'll see lmgs have only middling sustained DPS. Compounding that is the fact that after a certain range their accuracy plummets and at long range it's basically 0. This is not how LMGs really work (I've fired the M60). We don't have suppression or recoil so we have to abstract things a lot.

My solution was to sharpen the accuracy keeping it high at mid ranges and low at close and long ranges. I basically split them into two groups: modern lmgs that have a stupid high fire rate (very very low burst tick) but a fairly low damage per bullet and ww2 era that fire much slower per bullet but hit harder. I kept the warmup time low (the only time it is hard to pick a target is if it's far or close simulated by accuracy). I made it so that they are the best class of weapon for sustained DPS but have long cooldowns.  the idea is that when enemies first come into range a long range burst goes off not very accurately but by the time the next burst goes off the enemies should be in the sweet spot.

P.s. I'll make a new spreadsheet when I have time showing my personal tweaks, but I'm not going to share the actual files because it's all 100% ripping off sooner's work!

Sooner535

Thanks for the advice, I am not really testing much on the side of how weapons work in game yet (just trying to restat everything first) I will definitely look at both of those and consider trying to make the next one a balance update per say. Though one caviat is that if I make LMGsbtoo accurate they become I win weapons (1 bullet damage only needs to hit 2-3 times in the head to kill and with 100+ bullets it's not hard to) I am trying however to create a system that as ticks pass while shooting the accuracy lowers, however this seems impossible so far.

As stated though as soon as I can I will look at the charts you guys provided and get to work :D I am glad you guys want to balance things out and honestly I had hoped you guys would do something like this to help out :D

Daedra

Hey, I have a quick question about this mod. Earlier I was using the previous version of this and happened to have one of my colonists lose their right hand. No big deal, as you can still do most things with only one hand. But now you have a dual weapon, and that got me thinking: Does the gladius+scutum combo work with only one hand like all the other weapons? If so, is there any way to make it impossible to equip or use with only one hand? It's a minor thing, but I feel like if you can use two weapons with only one hand, that would be seriously immersion breaking. I know I can just not use it if someone loses a hand, but just figured I'd ask here real quick.

Sooner535

If I had my way you could only use a pistol or a sword one handed (doesn't make sense for someone who is one haned to use a AR or LMG) but as far as I know I don't think there is, if I find a way I'll let ya know

Daedra

Awesome, thanks for the quick reply. I figured there wasn't a way to restrict based on number of hands available since I never came across anything like that in the XMLs, but I figured it couldn't hurt to ask those who have been doing this for a while.

thrakkemarn

I don't see it as too much of an issue as long as losing a hand impacts your accuracy (I think it does already?). You can strap a shield to your arm and brace most long guns on your arm (since you can't move and shoot I think this is OK).

I really do love the idea of the burst being used for clip size, and that some weapons can fire further than their effective range. I'm just worried there's no proper way to balance it with the way combat and AI work currently :/ it's kind of designed around weapons only being fired within their effective ranges and having warmup and cooldown as a pseudo handling/reload/clip size thing while burst is just a simulated trigger squeeze.

But only time will tell it's still early days!

Sooner535

Ya it is a bit hard to balance these all out, if I raise the LMG's accuracy to just 1-3% it's enough to kill whoever they aim at 50-75% of the time (because of the amount of bullets it usually kills people standing nearby too) this makes LMGs a little OP so it is kind of a stand still, I may give LMGs the ability to fire at ground that way you can set up spots of "suppression" to get that holding a enemy there effect

eternalglory

Awesome mod!
I excited your lightsaver or sword editing....

But, Replacing vanilla gun makes me sad.....
Because I can't use another mod that make turrent with vanilla gun...

I really want use your mod... so don't replacing vanilla guns ....

Nopkar

Quote from: Sooner535 on October 10, 2014, 01:23:35 PM
Ya it is a bit hard to balance these all out, if I raise the LMG's accuracy to just 1-3% it's enough to kill whoever they aim at 50-75% of the time (because of the amount of bullets it usually kills people standing nearby too) this makes LMGs a little OP so it is kind of a stand still, I may give LMGs the ability to fire at ground that way you can set up spots of "suppression" to get that holding a enemy there effect

Would slower overall aiming and subsequent cooldown work as a decent counter balance for increased accuracy? I imagine a few seconds to 'set up' the gun with bipod and whatnot and then unleash a full clip then the long reload process as they drop the box, thread the belt, rack in the next shell and go again. dunno, I find myself throwing the lmg's away at this point but I completely understand not wanting to make them OP