How to make children work in game

[TrashMan]

the time scale is the biggest issue.

Now, there are ways to go around it. Who is to say 1 day on planet X equals 1 earth day.
You can just as easily make 1 day = 10 earth days, meaning 10x more time passes. Or even more.

You can even use the seasons principle, like DF does, instead of days.

[Damien Hart]

I would assume that the plants are genetically engineered to have a faster growth rate and a shorter lifespan, they are something like 2,500 years into the future after all.

........

The main issue I have with reproducing colonists is that a natural pregnancy doesn't fit within the time frame of a normal game.........

Hang on one cotton pickin' second...

If you accept that the plants have been genetically modified to gestate and grow faster, why is it difficult for you to image that the humans could also have been similarly modified?

Genetically modified crops are already used IRL; it's only natural that that technology would be more advanced and likely widely available at the time - like on board a ship that's required to travel years at a time between populated planets where it could buy food, for example - some crew are likely to be out of crypto sleep for maintenance, etc. and it would be cheaper to grow their own food hydroponically than buy several years worth of supplies.

I never took issue with the idea of genetically modified humans, simply with the idea that a bunch of crash survivors on an uncolonised planet would have the means to create a vat-growing facility to manufacture new colonists (which is the only manner of genetically modifying humans (not including cosmetic modifications) mentioned in the lore, a method which would also be somewhat redundant if the technology existed to create genetically modified people outside of a vat by any feasible means).

Not to mention that technology like that would be a closely guarded secret by any government that managed to develop it; it's not exactly likely to be freely available on the open market to anyone who might want to raise an army of clones for their own nefarious purposes.

[JesterHell]

I personally don't think that children should be seen as an expansion of your work force or "new" colonists, rather that their existence is controlled by the storyteller as a late game challenge rather then just more & more raiders that late game currently is, and that the benefits of children are entirely morale based.

So rather then being a case of the player going "Yes, new colonist" you have to deal with the issues that come with looking after children, and are forced to ask yourself, where do they go? what can they do? how do I keep them safe?

Not only should children give a morale bonus much like "new colony hope" that decrease over time but it should affect not only the parents but all non-psycho colonists examples being "I have a son/daughter" and "theirs a new life in the colony".

They should also give a higher mood "buff" from social interaction, a "talked with mother/father/son/daughter/brother/sister" for family and "talked with child"/"child's laughter" for all non-psycho colonists, as to many people children give hope and inspire optimism about what the future holds.

There should also be negative thought about child death or injury "I couldn't protect my own child" and again a lesser version of these should also affect all non-psychos "We couldn't even protect a child"

[Dragoon]

-snip-

that was amazing work sir!!!

[Japzzi]

I can make prisoners make babies with each other then!

Babies/Kids = free organs and food! C:

[H_D]

How to make children work in game?

Maybe little off topic, but I'd try with electric collars.

[StorymasterQ]

I can make prisoners make babies with each other then!

Babies/Kids = free organs and food! C:

Inb4: Check my signature.

[keylocke]

I never took issue with the idea of genetically modified humans, simply with the idea that a bunch of crash survivors on an uncolonised planet would have the means to create a vat-growing facility to manufacture new colonists (which is the only manner of genetically modifying humans (not including cosmetic modifications) mentioned in the lore, a method which would also be somewhat redundant if the technology existed to create genetically modified people outside of a vat by any feasible means).

Not to mention that technology like that would be a closely guarded secret by any government that managed to develop it; it's not exactly likely to be freely available on the open market to anyone who might want to raise an army of clones for their own nefarious purposes.

meh. what you can't build, you can probably buy off traders, if the tech and stock exist. (neuro-trainers? bionic implants? etc..)

also, what government? last time i checked, my colonists aren't paying any taxes.. lol. (also, black market.. *cough*)

I can make prisoners make babies with each other then!

Babies/Kids = free organs and food! C:

Inb4: Check my signature.

i know, right?

so much quotable stuff, reminiscent of "a modest proposal".. 

[Damien Hart]

I never took issue with the idea of genetically modified humans, simply with the idea that a bunch of crash survivors on an uncolonised planet would have the means to create a vat-growing facility to manufacture new colonists (which is the only manner of genetically modifying humans (not including cosmetic modifications) mentioned in the lore, a method which would also be somewhat redundant if the technology existed to create genetically modified people outside of a vat by any feasible means).

Not to mention that technology like that would be a closely guarded secret by any government that managed to develop it; it's not exactly likely to be freely available on the open market to anyone who might want to raise an army of clones for their own nefarious purposes.

meh. what you can't build, you can probably buy off traders, if the tech and stock exist. (neuro-trainers? bionic implants? etc..)

also, what government? last time i checked, my colonists aren't paying any taxes.. lol. (also, black market.. *cough*)

Like I said, the government on the planets that developed the technology in the first place. Or at least a super-corporation with a comparable level of power and resources.

Neuro-trainers and bionic limbs aren't inherently dangerous (at least not in the way I'm talking about), unlike a host of genetically modified humans whom you can program to think however you choose. I guess I just don't see traders, even black market smugglers having access to, let alone flying around the galaxy with the equipment required to set up any sort of vat-growing operation. And if they did manage to get their hands on some, you'd hardly expect them to be priced anywhere within the range that your colony could afford by selling potatoes, or even cattle prisoners;

[StatikMilk30]

C-Sectio. Just get the baby out of the mother with an operation. This will need a skilled doctor. And a natural birth doesn't have to be only succesfull with a doctor.

C-Sectio: Experienced doctor to perform save operation.
Natural Birth: Will be saver with doctor, but NOT needed. Bigger chance the mother or child will die.

Their could be a mood drop effect do to C-Section, so it is not just the best way to go.

[StatikMilk30]

Seems kind of redundant to me, unless other forms of recruitment were added their own severe disadvantages.

You can either spend lots of resources and 2+ years of in-game time to grow an emotional cripple with no skills, that even risks killing the mother (or the other way around if the mother dies or is injured), or you can pick whichever guy you like from one of the many battlefields that occur naturally anyway and recruit them, often getting yourself an amazing guy with useful traits of your choosing. Or you can harvest some cotton and buy a slave... hmm...

Anyway. Maybe if you could design the kid, or it had some other major advantage that would make it preferable to other forms of recruitment, but as-is it doesn't look worth it, and the vat growing is really awkward.

Their could be more punishment for taking prisoners from battle. Like other factions start to think you are a bunch of slave driving bandits and try to take you down. Or the prisoners could get a new chance of changing sides back to their original faction and killing one of your colonists. It would make taking prisoners more of a hard choice.

[keylocke]

Like I said, the government on the planets that developed the technology in the first place. Or at least a super-corporation with a comparable level of power and resources.

Neuro-trainers and bionic limbs aren't inherently dangerous (at least not in the way I'm talking about), unlike a host of genetically modified humans whom you can program to think however you choose. I guess I just don't see traders, even black market smugglers having access to, let alone flying around the galaxy with the equipment required to set up any sort of vat-growing operation. And if they did manage to get their hands on some, you'd hardly expect them to be priced anywhere within the range that your colony could afford by selling potatoes, or even cattle prisoners;

pure speculation. can you describe in more detail what are the necessary requirements for building VAT tech? we're dealing with a fictional tech here. lol.

also, what kind of government are we talking about here anyways? democracy? communism? theocracy, adhocracy, technocracy, etc.. (*cough* ie : rapture, columbia, in bioshock? *cough*)

the blackmarket's ability/inability to acquire VAT tech is also purely speculation. this is a fictional world, there could be dozens of instances on how the black market can get VAT tech (ie : corrupt gov officials, rogue scientists, hijacked convoy, etc)

also, since resources needed for constructing VAT tech is pure speculation. that means price is also pure speculation. it could be expensive, it could be cheap (priceless? lol. is it lurve?). but as long as it has a price and mass produced, it can probably be sold.

edit : (different approaches to clone tech)
-star wars : clone tech is heavily regulated. ('coz it's a key point in the story. if the separatists can get clones + drones. then the story becomes a frakk fest)
-eve online : clones are cheap and widely spread

so it depends on the "lore".

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edit : moar speculations..

-get enough moneys to buy VAT and install it.
-get papa sperm to fertilize mama egg on petri dish
-gattaca the shitz out of it (optional)
-place it in a VAT (eats resources, energy, time) (watch out for solar flares! and get a mod or something, coz the flare/eclipse timings are funky as hell)
-wait for gestation period to finish (if you're lucky, repeat process if not)
-squeeze out a brand spanking new and totally clueless "15 year-old" colonist (but with the combined traits of it's mama/papa)
-plop them in a neurotrainer for "orientation"
-???
-profit

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edit 2 : traits categories (aka : gattaca-the-shitz-out-of-it checklist)

*basic traits : (constant. can only be changed by "events". ie : accidents, injuries, etc..)
-physical : ie : strong, weak, fast, slow, etc..
-mental : ie : smart, stupid, etc..
-social : ie : attractive, ugly, abrasive, friendly, etc..

*mood traits : (activated/deactivated by morale)
-positive : ie : optimistic, happy, etc..
-negative : ie : depressive, angry, etc..
-neutral : ie : apathy, etc..

[Argon]

The real issue with this seems to be game span.

With some games following the Crash-Survive-Escape plan.
A different play style(Crash-Survive-Thrive)can commonly result in 5+ year long games, making a 270 day gestation period perfectly reasonable.

[Damien Hart]

There is only one piece of hard information regarding the vat growing of humans, and that's that it is used for growing soldiers (as evidenced by the in-game trait). Any government that is using the technology for manufacturing armies is going to do everything in its power to ensure that they are the only ones with access to that technology.

One other piece of information that might relate to vat growing is this, from the longsleep revival briefing: "Some worlds engineer “perfect mates” for the rich and powerful." This is the only other mention of genetic engineering that likely takes place before birth. If the same technology is in fact used, the phrase rich and powerful implies that the procedure is costly, or at least regulated in such a way that only the privileged few have access to it; if it were more widely accessible, it wouldn't be limited to the rich and powerful.

With the cost and possible applications in mind, any black market dealer with the means to obtain the technology wouldn't be flying about the galaxy offering it to anyone they came across; a person who has need of that technology is likely someone who doesn't take issue with taking it by force.

[keylocke]

There is only one piece of hard information regarding the vat growing of humans, and that's that it is used for growing soldiers (as evidenced by the in-game trait). Any government that is using the technology for manufacturing armies is going to do everything in its power to ensure that they are the only ones with access to that technology.

One other piece of information that might relate to vat growing is this, from the longsleep revival briefing: "Some worlds engineer �perfect mates� for the rich and powerful." This is the only other mention of genetic engineering that likely takes place before birth. If the same technology is in fact used, the phrase rich and powerful implies that the procedure is costly, or at least regulated in such a way that only the privileged few have access to it; if it were more widely accessible, it wouldn't be limited to the rich and powerful.

With the cost and possible applications in mind, any black market dealer with the means to obtain the technology wouldn't be flying about the galaxy offering it to anyone they came across; a person who has need of that technology is likely someone who doesn't take issue with taking it by force.

any item that can be acquired by the "rich" implies that it can be "bought". and if it's a highly regulated item, it means that it's probably gonna get bought from the black market.

while "rich" is a very subjective term. even governments have budgets. if they mass produce soldiers via vat-tech, then that means the tech is pricey, but not over-the-top-pricey. heck! even a rag-tag colony can probably amass enough silver to trade for a couple of those babies, as compared to a whole factory's worth of vats for mass production of soldiers. otherwise, what's the point of producing vat soldiers, if a government can't mass produce them for cannon fodder? (also, emmie the vat-grown sex slave.. lol.. it kinda undermines the ironclad government regulation argument)

edit : also, how many governments are there? if there are governments at war, defunct governments, etc.. not to mention entire planets, entire star systems, etc.. then oodles of rogue scientists, knowledgeable of vat-tech, roaming around the galaxy are highly possible.

as for "black market" items, like slaves, AI cores, etc.. since those things can be bought from a trader. that implies that even hard-to-acquire/illegal items such as vats can be bought as well. it's all really just a matter of pricing. (heck! i've even gunned down several rogue scientists during pirate raids.. lol. if they're that desperate, imagine how cheap they would sell vats if they have enough materials to build one.)

this is why i really don't find any of your arguments compelling enough to remove the possibility of buying vats from the black market. it's not as if adding vats into the game would be game-breaking or anything. it mostly just adds flavor, since it's more cheaper to just buy a slave from traders.

edit2 : better yet, just allow vat-tech to be researched, aight? if a colonist who grew up in a cave can learn how to build spaceships and turrets and all those other thinga-majigs, why not vat-tech?

vats would be great for people who wants to allow "couples" in their colonies to have kids.. and to be able to "breed" the parent's traits and then hyper-grow them quickly to 15 years old (so they don't have to be useless food-munching parasites for 15 yrs, before they become relatively useful)