[MOD] (Alpha 10) Medical surgery XP balance

Started by Minus, October 17, 2014, 11:18:24 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

skullywag

Well if this isnt fixed in Alpha8 (is it?) and i dont use extended surgery.....
Skullywag modded to death.
I'd never met an iterator I liked....until Zhentar saved me.
Why Unity5, WHY do you forsake me?

JuliaEllie

Quote from: Minus on October 21, 2014, 04:18:34 PM

<SNIP!>
Changelog 1.4

       
  • Merged the More Bionic Parts! mod with this one.
  • Also merged the Medical XP gain mod with this.
  • Fixed bionic arm upgrade's 11 arm cost.
  • Fixed bionic jaw's description
  • Gave the hook hand a damage boost.
  • Added pretty crystal eyes which improve socialising
  • Added motorized tracks to make some really fast colonists.
  • Added bionic shoulders. They sadly replace bionic arms.
<SNIP!>

But maybe we should just ask Minus :D

skullywag

I know he merged it. But you can keep a mod seperate without issue (and without it being dead) especially one as small as this. If he doesnt keep it up to date i will until such time that its in core.
Skullywag modded to death.
I'd never met an iterator I liked....until Zhentar saved me.
Why Unity5, WHY do you forsake me?

Minus

Quote from: Sion on November 11, 2014, 12:04:39 PM
Butcher human: 200-300 XP (because that's like an autopsy, witch really lets the doc figure out how the stuff inside is supposed to be put together)
...I'm sorry but butchering someone is NOT like an autopsy! If I went and butchered someone I'd not really learn anything new, I'd just have a lot of fun. Actual medical operations are about making the smallest incision possible, literally the OPPOSITE of butchering!

But thanks for the suggestion anyway.

Quote from: JuliaEllie on November 11, 2014, 12:32:06 PM
Its now part of Extended Surgery and wont be updated anymore. So technically this mod is dead.
Whoa-ho there! This mod is not dead! It's just... I don't see any ways right now of improving it. This mod will remain it's own thing for those that want to keep playing Vanilla, but are bothered by the lack of medical XP you can get. It's more a fix really, whilst Extended Surgery is an actual mod. It'll die once Tynan puts XP into the vanilla game.

Our cybernetic hearts mean we care more!
Mods: Extended Surgery and Bionics, Brain Surgery, Medical XP Balance

Cat123

#19
Quote from: Minus on November 13, 2014, 10:04:09 PMI'm sorry but butchering someone is NOT like an autopsy!

Sorry, but you're wrong.

Butchers have to have rather specific knowledge of muscles, ligaments and the differences between fats, connective tissue and flesh. If there's one thing alone that preaches this: sirloin is worth about ten times offal: you learn to cut well, or you fail.

And Surgeons?

Every. Single. Doctor. Who. Is. A. Quality. Surgeon. Cut. Up. Dead. Animals. And. Then. Human. Cadavers. Not. In. 1814*. In. 1914. And. In. 2014.


They learnt their knife skills from butchers - I suggest you read a little history. The battlefield is sadly a place of learning, and butchers had a skill to teach; especially when it came to amputations.


So, please: if you've never cut up a corpse, don't be a prudish muppet about it. After the consciousness leaves [spirit / anima / soul, whatever], you're a slab of meat and surgeons will train on you. Pro-tip: in the best medical schools / universities, it's often [off the record] suggested that you intern for a butcher in your summer holidays for the first two years...


*I suggest you learn about the struggle the medical profession went through to actually look inside a corpse: The Sistine Chapel is rather instructive about it, after all.... that's the human brain God is reaching from.

StorymasterQ

Quote from: Minus on November 13, 2014, 10:04:09 PM
If I went and butchered someone I'd not really learn anything new, I'd just have a lot of fun.

I need add this sentence to my oft-quoted quote here
I like how this game can result in quotes that would be quite unnerving when said in public, out of context. - Myself

The dubious quotes list is now public. See it here

Minus

Quote from: Cat123 on November 13, 2014, 10:19:22 PM
*Big load of facts*
My entire response was stupid because I for some reason thought "butchering" was not the professional term, and that it meant hacking at a body until meat comes out. Doesn't help that it kinda looks that way in the game too. But given that I did cooking in college, this is just embarassing...

Thankyou for the history lesson, you are totally right. Damnit, wish I'd read this before I updated Extended Surgery and Bionics! Just added some new stuff that uses human meat as well!

HOWEVER! Just for balance reasons, I think adding this would make butchering too good a thing. The same logic could be used to have butchering increase melee skill or vice versa. It just feels off having it improve cooking AND medicine, even if the two are closely connected IRL. Similarily the medicine crafting in Apothacarius ignores cooking, even though it is literally mixing 3 herbs together in a bowl. I will keep an open mind and you are free to try to change it. But logic and balance are enemies here, the last thing I want is to make it easy to level up quickly.

Our cybernetic hearts mean we care more!
Mods: Extended Surgery and Bionics, Brain Surgery, Medical XP Balance

Sion

You could always lower the amount of XP from butchering.

It would be more humane than capture a crappy raider, haul him to a cell, set the prisoner-settings to receive treatment but not medicine (because those are expensive), draft a colonist and finally shoot the raider a couple of times, then let the doctor fix him up, and shoot him some more...

Yeah, RimWorld have a REALLY SPECIAL kind of dark "humor".
So many ideas... so little time...
Silence is the worst answer.

Minus

#23
This was the first bit of my Extended Surgery mod I updated to Alpha 9. As the rest is gonna take longer to convert over, thought I'd at least upload what I've done so far.
Still shocked surgery gives no XP in Vanilla.

This version gives about half as much XP as it used to due to the gradual way XP is gained now.

Our cybernetic hearts mean we care more!
Mods: Extended Surgery and Bionics, Brain Surgery, Medical XP Balance

Mathenaut

Quote from: Sion on November 15, 2014, 06:16:02 PM
You could always lower the amount of XP from butchering.

It would be more humane than capture a crappy raider, haul him to a cell, set the prisoner-settings to receive treatment but not medicine (because those are expensive), draft a colonist and finally shoot the raider a couple of times, then let the doctor fix him up, and shoot him some more...

Yeah, RimWorld have a REALLY SPECIAL kind of dark "humor".

As was stated, logic and balance are 'enemies' of a sort.

There is this odd way of thinking that making things convoluted or needlessly complex adds to depth. Even worse, a sense that these things somehow mirror 'realism'. This makes realism something counter-intuitive and makes realistic solutions seem 'cheap'.

Is it dark to experiment on unwilling captives in order to learn nuances of medicine and anatomy? It is, and that's pretty much exactly what happened. It's in hindsight that these things can be learned by proxy of more humane means, but that first knowledge? It's not a coincidence that surgery and butchery share those parallels.

All that aside, it does make a sort of sense that butchery doesn't progress medicine because you aren't really making the same cuts toward the same ends. Many of the basics are the same, so it's good for early learning, but to really progress your skill you'd need to use bodies.

So really, just let us butcher corpses for medical xp instead of cooking xp. Can even require it to be done on the medical bed and make it a time sink.

lusername

Quote from: Mathenaut on March 05, 2015, 09:33:45 PM
Is it dark to experiment on unwilling captives in order to learn nuances of medicine and anatomy? It is, and that's pretty much exactly what happened.
Don't worry, if you learn anything useful and turn over all your data, you'll avoid prosecution for war crimes.

Minus

Updated to Alpha 10. Probably redundant.

Our cybernetic hearts mean we care more!
Mods: Extended Surgery and Bionics, Brain Surgery, Medical XP Balance

Ninefinger

#27
Quote from: Minus on May 03, 2015, 01:58:11 AM
Updated to Alpha 10. Probably redundant.

Thanks for posting this, or i never would have caught that, i went ahead and updated Expanded Prosthetics & Organ Engineering for my Ultimate Overhaul Modpack. Should probably let other surgery modders know to adjust there values accordingly. But im sure they will see this post as i have. Thanks again, oh and you should probably post that this mod will not be entirely necessary so long as those mods are updated directly. Cheers!