Exploiting Heaters for Profit!

[Mattorious]

Okay guys, I know this was rather quick, but I've found a way to exploit heaters for free goods and stuffs.

Step One
Make a smallish space out of fireproof materials, and put heaters in each corner. (Optional: It'll work with one or two heaters, but four makes it easier and quicker) Set your heaters for 140c. (285f)


Step Two
Wall off your space so the room is like an entrance or gateway to your colony.


Step Three
Invite Guests!


Step Four
Lock them in!


Step Five
? ? ?

Step Six
Profit!

This process won't work for raiders as they'll just break the doors down. But when you get some neutral friendlies... Well...

<sidenote>If you want to get the loot quickly, best thing to do is to break down a wall. The temp inside will equalize instantly</sidenote>

[Cimanyd]

<sidenote>If you want to get the loot quickly, best thing to do is to break down a wall. The temp inside will equalize instantly</sidenote>

Or just use a no roof zone for a second; it's free, and missing any part of the roof will make it "outdoors" just like missing a wall.

[milon]

<sidenote>If you want to get the loot quickly, best thing to do is to break down a wall. The temp inside will equalize instantly</sidenote>

Or just use a no roof zone for a second; it's free, and missing any part of the roof will make it "outdoors" just like missing a wall.

Does that work reliably?  I had issues with the roof coming back again once No Roof was removed.

[Cimanyd]

<sidenote>If you want to get the loot quickly, best thing to do is to break down a wall. The temp inside will equalize instantly</sidenote>

Or just use a no roof zone for a second; it's free, and missing any part of the roof will make it "outdoors" just like missing a wall.

Does that work reliably?  I had issues with the roof coming back again once No Roof was removed.

It should, that's the point. Remove the no roof zone whenever you want to enclose the area again (for cooking the next visitors, for example).

[milon]

Here's the main problem: Ground-assaulting pawns (pirates, tribals, mechs [does temperature affect them?], and animals) are virtually always Outdoors because they love breaking down doors and walls.

Here's the solution: Prop a door open!
See the screenshots.  I used a geothermal generator for this proof-of-concept, but regular ol' Heaters should work too.  I made a small space (to concentrate the heat), and threw down some sandbags (to slow them down).  The walls and doors are made of stone (inflammable).  I designated each door as a Dumping stockpile, and hauled a rock chunk to it.  This props the doors open, and the "indoor" temperature drops to the outside temperature.  I spawned some pirates and directed a colonist to haul the rock chunk away (1 tile away, to a Critical priority dumping pile).  Door didn't close until he walked through it.  So, not totally passive, but doable.  (Not sure why I opened both ends.  That kind of defeats the purpose...)

EDIT 2 - Tried a couple variations.  Temperature leak will always be your enemy.  You want either super hot or super cold, and that's hard to achieve with a leaky door.  My last test got only about 100.C hotter than the outdoors, which is enough for heatstroke but kind of sad when you consider the setup.  It was a 1 tile wide hallway with stone walls 2-3 deep on both sides, 10 heaters set for +400.C, and 4 or 5 doors on each end.  I thought it would have gotten much hotter than that. 

[attachment deleted due to age]

[fraz]

I suppose the same thing has been possible for as long as we've had lockable doors, simply by starving them to death. Perhaps visitors who are suffering health consequences due to heat/cold/starvation should enter a "frantically leaving" state, in which they will beat down any doors/walls necessary to leave the map.

[_alphaBeta_]

Perhaps visitors who are suffering health consequences due to heat/cold/starvation should enter a "frantically leaving" state, in which they will beat down any doors/walls necessary to leave the map.

That's a good idea for reasons even beyond this exploit.

Another way to address the exploit would be for visitors to register that they're barred from leaving the map, and take that as a hostile action. This probably makes more sense when the diplomacy functionality has matured further, however.

[Mattorious]

I suppose the same thing has been possible for as long as we've had lockable doors, simply by starving them to death.

Yup, but this is quicker, and doesn't leave your colonists stuck inside your colony as long.

[milon]

I'd love to see someone get this working.  Either that, or a mod that introduces air-tight doors (no heat leak) that can be opened/closed by the player. 

[Wex]

Air tight doors... to suffocate them?

[StorymasterQ]

Insulated doors, then! Also walls. Also, insulation in general.

That said, vacuum makes for great insulation. But that's a slippery slope that leads to the oxygen discussion that we stomped out a while ago.

[Chibiabos]

As another sidenote, I wish visitors would or could not enter Prisoner areas.  I've had prisoners escape when a group of visitors decided to go pay the prison a visit (in older games) and the door stayed open too long from the visitors crowding through, I've had visitors rush into my prison room when one prisoner started on a rampage and killed almost every prisoner using uzis (when I just try to gang up with multiple melee attacks to knock a rampaging prisoner out to get them back in control :/).  I got so angry with this, the moment a tourist decided to 'visit' my prison, I'd give them a long term home there the moment they stepped in.

[fraz]

Another way to address the exploit would be for visitors to register that they're barred from leaving the map, and take that as a hostile action. This probably makes more sense when the diplomacy functionality has matured further, however.

There are potentially innocent (or even beneficent) reasons why visitors might end up temporarily barred from leaving, such as if they happened to be inside your base when an enemy raid arrived, and you lock the door to prevent colonists from wandering out into the firefight. Thus, I don't think it should automatically be interpreted as hostile. Perhaps being barred from leaving the map and suffering negative health consequences due to heat/cold/starvation while trapped could be reasonably taken as a hostile action.

Yup, but this is quicker, and doesn't leave your colonists stuck inside your colony as long.

Quicker, yes, but it is not necessary to leave your colonists stuck; you could have a second entrance that you unlock once the visitors are locked in the trap room.

[keylocke]

Here's the solution: Prop a door open!
I designated each door as a Dumping stockpile, and hauled a rock chunk to it.  This props the doors open

woah. great idea! i also experimented on steam gens + heaters, but the larger the room, the lower the heat cap.



-so i did a similar experiment, but instead of steam gen i created a flower grow zone surrounded by stone walls. (flames boost the room heat rather quickly, more flames = more heat). use no-roof zone to grow flowers, then remove no-roof zone when enemies get near the room (to seal it)

-if it's winter, just construct cheap wooden furniture inside the room as substitute

-once the enemies get near the room, throw a couple of molotovs on the flowers/furniture.

-while the enemies are busy trying to kill the flame or running around while burning, trap them inside by removing the door prop (as you suggested)

-it's easy to reach +1000c in a very short time in a closed room if you have enough flames.

#notes :
-my above design is wonky. since if enemies reach the flames too soon, their items would also burn up with the flames... so i think a dual "room" separated by zigzag sandbags (no door between them) design would be better.

-first "room" is the entry hall, which would keep/distract most of the raiders as they bang on the walls
-2nd "room" will contain the flaming zone.

-in theory, most of the loot will be dropped in or near the first room. saving them from the fire.

----------------

anyways, the main problem i see with this is that enemy AI right now tend to divide themselves more often into smaller groups, instead of just charging in through the killzone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PUgA4HpUY0

"new" raider AI seems to just attack any part of player owned structures.. (players can even claim neutral structures and use these as distractions, so that some of the raiders will attack these first and divide their forces)

so having an elite (preferably cyborg) sniper team all armed with m24s seem to be a lot more useful in alpha 8 than in previous alphas. (these guys will allow you to attack the stragglers and then remove the door prop for the heat-kill zone.)

-------------------

another problem with temperature-based traps is that they don't seem very effective against mechs, while large herds of raging psychotic animals makes it hard for snipers to survive while lurking outside to remove the door prop.. so..  as always, probably best to create multi-tiered traps consisting of turret killbox, exploding turret mini killbox, and a temp-based killbox..

because overkill is fun.. 

[_alphaBeta_]

Another way to address the exploit would be for visitors to register that they're barred from leaving the map, and take that as a hostile action. This probably makes more sense when the diplomacy functionality has matured further, however.

There are potentially innocent (or even beneficent) reasons why visitors might end up temporarily barred from leaving, such as if they happened to be inside your base when an enemy raid arrived, and you lock the door to prevent colonists from wandering out into the firefight. Thus, I don't think it should automatically be interpreted as hostile. Perhaps being barred from leaving the map and suffering negative health consequences due to heat/cold/starvation while trapped could be reasonably taken as a hostile action.

That's very true you're right. Perhaps a timeout of sorts mixed with a combination of negative health effects as you suggest would be best. Then again if the diplomacy ever sees a revamp (so visitors actually do something), this whole mechanic may change anyway.