Make the Prisoners Work! (Slaves.) Make Some Babies! (Breeding.)

[Didact04]

Most colonies only last a couple of years, if that. How would children have any impact? You would be lucky to raise one to toddler in that time...

Currently the goal of the game is explicitly to leave. The challenges keep scaling, everything keeps pushing, the entire planet is hostile and you don't belong. You want to leave. Its supposed to make you want to leave.

However, in the future, we might get very different scenarios and very different worlds to start on. Maybe you don't want to leave - or, maybe you're hop-scotching your way across the galaxy, stopping for pitstops when the ship runs out of gas and you have to either refuel it or replace the irrepairable parts duct taped onto it. If you're either not going to leave or this is a long-term endeavor, children become a real factor and something to consider.

Plus, what if you land on a world that doesn't have any humans or friendly life forms on it? What if you're on a barren world and only sufficient life support can keep you and your existing colonists alive while the planet itself pushes against you? You need a workforce. You need bodies. You need hands to manage things. And everyone comes with their own body-making machine...or at least, a half of it. Manage for a while on a good world and push deeper into the cosmos. Maybe you'll need those extra workers.

It's something to consider in the future. Besides, even if it was or was not a good idea, anyone with a functional reproductive system would still want to breed. It's something that would have to be physically removed from us to not default to that. (With some exceptions of course, asexuals  very much exist.)

[joao pedro pow]

the prisioners is a good idea, but baby? I think the game would look a bit like the sims

[SuperCaffeineDude]

It is a simulator though, an integral part of colony management is managing a population of not only strong able-bodied workers, but cripples, children, elderly and (following off the initial suggestion) slaves.
I think it'd be nice to see, though I doubt it'll come into fruition, though the prisoner work force seems very plausible.

[ImNatalie]

I don't want you guys to keep saying it will be like the sims, because it won't!
This is a survival game, and the sims isn't. A need to reproduce and lust is still there in survival situations.

[JimmyAgnt007]

Babies are a problem.  I dont think it would turn into the sims or anything but rather take a lot of time.  They would take FOREVER (14 game years) to ever become useful.  Until then what?  constant food and protection, watching others do jobs to learn skills, what about when they get killed?

Vat-Grown is something that happens in rimworld.  So how about a maturation vat.  Two people want a baby. (lets not restrict gender here)  They build a vat and start the cycle.  Neural trainers can be used on it, but you can select pawns to 'teach' whoever is in the vat to transfer skills/traits.  Maybe make the baby bill so you can select what ones that you want.  The more passion the teacher has the more the offspring has a chance at having.  Traits are taken from the parents or the teachers.  In the end the whole process takes maybe a year.  There can also be a direct clone option if you really feel like it.

[Vexare]

Vat-Grown is something that happens in rimworld.  So how about a maturation vat.  Two people want a baby. (lets not restrict gender here)  They build a vat and start the cycle.  Neural trainers can be used on it, but you can select pawns to 'teach' whoever is in the vat to transfer skills/traits.  Maybe make the baby bill so you can select what ones that you want.  The more passion the teacher has the more the offspring has a chance at having.  Traits are taken from the parents or the teachers.  In the end the whole process takes maybe a year.  There can also be a direct clone option if you really feel like it.

The "Baby Bill" idea is awesome. Cracks me up! It could be a crafting component and the higher your crafting the better product you produce from the vat!

I don't know why people keep getting hung up on the 'time' issue with having kids. You can hyper-grow potatoes in a few days but you're upset realism is lost if a kid matures to an adult in a year or two?

[Ciznit]

I want to be able to force prisoners to make slave babies.

[Vagabond]

Hello,

In regard to slaves, I'd say it is a good idea. However it doesn't have to be slavery as the term implies, but rather a work-to-eat  type deal. Shackles would make it all but impossible to escape, and limit them in what they do. A ball-and-chain deal could give them a certain area in which they could work. Farming, quarrying, and mining would be ideal uses for prisoners and low risk. Letting them construct could possibly allow them to sabatoge your structures, while crafting could make and object come out bad or malfunction somehow (ask prisoner A to make a gun because he has high crafting and he might make it so that it blows up in the users face).

In the same regard as slaves, I would also propose that visitors whom consume food should also pick up tasks best suited to their skills out of appreciation for your hospitality.

Reproduction is something I've felt could enrich the game considerably. Vat growing children is certainly an option, however I'd like to point out another option that could work concurrently.

##Time and Aging##

Time: Each day could abstractly represent three months, given real life times on construction and production. The length of a day might need adjusting. A 24 hour clock could have somewhere around 30 seconds to a minute being the length of a game hour. Leasure time would fit in here, basically the way it worked in diggles was when you clicked on a dwarf it had a little clock in the corner with two moveable hands. The hands would be manipulated to decide what hour they start work and what hour they end work. During the time they were off the clock, they would build relationships, eat, sleep, and do little fun things.

Aging: Basically there would be eight age categories, each with interesting aspects. The base time is the standard length of time they are in that age group, the extra day is a "late development" factor. For example: Crawlers have a base time of one day. So they will always be in that stage for at least one day. After that day, the game will "roll" with a 25% chance at a second day. If they get that second day, the third day will be rolled with a 15% chance of them getting it; alternatively it could simply be an RNG, where it will just pick a number from one to three.

Aging could look like this:

Infant
-Infants are unable to do anything; they simply stay swaddled on their mother, which precludes the mother from certain activities.
-Base time, two days. One extra day possible at: 25% chance (Alternative: RNG, 1-2)

Crawler
-Crawlers do nothing but get under other colonist's feet.  X% chance of a dwarf tripping over a crawler when passing.
-Base time, one day. Two extra days possible at: 25/15% chances. (Alternative: RNG, 1-3)

Walker
-Walkers tend to wander off from the home-zone, possibly endangering themselves.
-25% chance to do a light hauling task.
-Base time, five days. Four extra days possible at: 25/20/15/10% chances. (Alternative: RNG 5-9)

Talker
-Talkers talk. A lot. X% chance to distract another Colonist from their task.
-50% chance to do a light hauling task.
-Base time, twelve days. Four extra days possible at: 25/20/15/10% chances. (Alternative: RNG, 12-16)

Helper
-Helpers try to emulate the adults. They can do simple tasks like fetching pails of water.
-Can do a light hauling task, and 25% chance to do a medium hauling task.
-Base time, twenty days. Eight extra days possible at: 50/45/40/35/30/25/20/15% chances. (Alternative: RNG, 20-28)

Worker
-Workers start really helping the colony.
-Can do light/medium hauling tasks, and 50% chance to do a heavy hauling task.
-Leave their parent's home.
-Base time, twenty days. Twelve extra day possible at: 75/70/65/60/55/50/45/40/35/30/25/20% Chances. (Alternative: RNG, 20-32)

Breeder
-Able to marry; Each colonist requires a piece of jewelry. There must be an available Private Quarters with a double bed.
-Married Breeders can have children. Pregnancy lasts 3 days.
-Can do light/medium/heavy hauling tasks.
-Become Elders at two hundred days old.

Elder
-No longer work themselves, but instead "Mentor" other colonists, it increases that colonists skill gain and increases production speed. It is much more effective than the "Aid" feature, which allows two colonists to work on a single task to help a less skilled person benefit from a more skilled worker.
-Has a 75%/50%/25% chance to do a light/medium/heavy hauling task.
-After they are 240 days old, they have an acumulative 5% chance per day to pass away.

Just an idea,
Cheers.

P.S: I think the game should be there to allow you to simulate your scenario. Whatever you think up. If you want to escape, building a ship would be priority. If you want to be tribals migrating to the region, so be it.

[Mithradates]

Aging could look like this:

Infant
-Infants are unable to do anything; they simply stay swaddled on their mother, which precludes the mother from certain activities.
-Base time, two days. One extra day possible at: 25% chance (Alternative: RNG, 1-2)

Crawler
-Crawlers do nothing but get under other colonist's feet.  X% chance of a dwarf tripping over a crawler when passing.
-Base time, one day. Two extra days possible at: 25/15% chances. (Alternative: RNG, 1-3)

Walker
-Walkers tend to wander off from the home-zone, possibly endangering themselves.
-25% chance to do a light hauling task.
-Base time, five days. Four extra days possible at: 25/20/15/10% chances. (Alternative: RNG 5-9)

Talker
-Talkers talk. A lot. X% chance to distract another Colonist from their task.
-50% chance to do a light hauling task.
-Base time, twelve days. Four extra days possible at: 25/20/15/10% chances. (Alternative: RNG, 12-16)

Helper
-Helpers try to emulate the adults. They can do simple tasks like fetching pails of water.
-Can do a light hauling task, and 25% chance to do a medium hauling task.
-Base time, twenty days. Eight extra days possible at: 50/45/40/35/30/25/20/15% chances. (Alternative: RNG, 20-28)

Worker
-Workers start really helping the colony.
-Can do light/medium hauling tasks, and 50% chance to do a heavy hauling task.
-Leave their parent's home.
-Base time, twenty days. Twelve extra day possible at: 75/70/65/60/55/50/45/40/35/30/25/20% Chances. (Alternative: RNG, 20-32)

Breeder
-Able to marry; Each colonist requires a piece of jewelry. There must be an available Private Quarters with a double bed.
-Married Breeders can have children. Pregnancy lasts 3 days.
-Can do light/medium/heavy hauling tasks.
-Become Elders at two hundred days old.

Elder
-No longer work themselves, but instead "Mentor" other colonists, it increases that colonists skill gain and increases production speed. It is much more effective than the "Aid" feature, which allows two colonists to work on a single task to help a less skilled person benefit from a more skilled worker.
-Has a 75%/50%/25% chance to do a light/medium/heavy hauling task.
-After they are 240 days old, they have an acumulative 5% chance per day to pass away.

Jesus, man - You make colonists sound like the Tyrranids.

I vote NO to children, unless the game gets to the Century mark.

And regarding slaves; I would accept slavery, if:

It was not a simple "ur da slave nao" "ok cool" kind of deal. No. Forget that immediately. Either you have taskmasters, overseers, and all manner of cruel people forcing them to do each and every task, with mood penalties and escape plots and all the rest of it - or don't even bother. Oh, and none of this 'shock collar' nonsense. That is as nothing. Chattel Slavery was never a simple proposition, and always required a strong, active hand in keeping the institution alive and the slavers safe.

I would also require Slave Revolt events, and Spartacus-type characters/factions who will come and kill you and take your stuff if you hold slaves (and, of course, your own slaves revolt when this group gets close to your compound). Some (maybe all) non-pirate factions will despise you, and become hostile. I want Mithradates Eupator VI of Pontos Himself to issue a Night of Vespers on your little colony. I want all of your colonists to wake up dead one night. I want the slaves to inherit your property.

[Vagabond]

Mithradates,

How, pray tell, do I make them sound like Tyrannids?

It's a basic mechanical break down of the aging process. . .

And why would everyone hate you? People keep saying slave labor, but in reality they are still prisoners. Using prisoners for labor is nothing new or something to be dispised. Now if you were knocking out friendly visitors for prisoner labor, that would be slavery, but you're already getting relationship loss for that and they will end up hating you and becomming your enemy.  So that is a moot point. People whom are comming to your settlement to kill you are already your enemy so taking their wounded prisoner and using them for labor and maybe or maybe not hiring them on as colonists is more merciful than putting them to death. Their basic needs are obviouslly met, or they die/go crazy, so you're already treating them better than what they were aiming to do to you.

/shrug

Cheers,
Michael

[Mithradates]

Mithradates,

How, pray tell, do I make them sound like Tyrannids?

It's a basic mechanical break down of the aging process. . .

Haha, I am referring to the names you have given them. 'crawlers', 'breeders', and the like. If you replaced 'Infant' with 'larvae', it could be a life cycle for one of any number of bug-type aliens.

And why would everyone hate you? People keep saying slave labor, but in reality they are still prisoners. Using prisoners for labor is nothing new or something to be dispised. Now if you were knocking out friendly visitors for prisoner labor, that would be slavery, but you're already getting relationship loss for that and they will end up hating you and becomming your enemy.  So that is a moot point.

I should think that forcing someone to work in order to eat/continue living (outside of times of true necessity of such) would qualify as slavery; whether they are 'prisoners' or not is of little consequence. The Pirates take slaves. They are the enemies of both the tribes and the towns (and usually each other as well). If you started taking slaves, and word spread, why shouldn't the towns and tribes (or at least those what don't employ slaves - that is not really addressed as of yet) consider you a threat? Oh, sure, you're only enslaving pirates today, but who is to say that a couple of months from now, you won't be taking some tribesmen? Surely they wouldn't make peace with you whilst you held their people in bondage...and the other towns? Again, that would probably need to be fleshed out more. It depends on what each town does.

I hold basically the same position on slavery as I do on cannibalism. It should be largely detested, and while there should be factions who engage in these activities (minor - randomized), there should be some serious consequences for doing so. And, at least in the case of slavery, it should be difficult. Enslavement shouldn't become an 'easy' substitute for convincing people to join your colony.

People whom are comming to your settlement to kill you are already your enemy so taking their wounded prisoner and using them for labor and maybe or maybe not hiring them on as colonists is more merciful than putting them to death. Their basic needs are obviouslly met, or they die/go crazy, so you're already treating them better than what they were aiming to do to you.

I don't know about that. Usually, the pirates and tribesmen incapacitate my colonists and try to kidnap them. I assume that they would be enslaved or forced to join. I imagine that the only real difference is that we're doing it to them rather than the other way 'round.

[Vagabond]

Mith,

I think there is a huge difference in pirates invading colonies to capture people for slaves, putting anyone in their way to the "sword" so to speak, and colonist using prisoners for penal Labour. Why would any of the factions have any worry about you all the sudden turning into the aggressor and trying to capture them? Especially since you usually maintain good relations with anyone who isn't hostile with you first. If you do anything (kill/capture/ect) to a neutral or friendly, you get a relationship hit. So you're already penalized for trying to become the aggressor. I don't see many colonies doing that when there are easier ways to get penal labor (the sheer volume of attacks on colonies).

It is a more just form of punishment for trying to rape and pillage your colony than just letting them sit in a cell and eat your food.

Cheers,
Michael

[Vexare]

I agree that it's easier to take the captives of your enemy, but if you wanted to run a truly large-scale slave trading and production operation (think evil slave trade plantation) then your leaders are going to eye easier prey, their friendly next door neighbors. Of course they will no longer be friendly, but their members will be easier to pick off than the heavier armed pirates and the mass numbers of tribals, right?

I was toying with forming a three-man slave-trade operation just before A9 hit and will likely pick it up once this build smooths over a bit or moves on (it's a little rougher than A8). My three chosen starter colonists will all have traits making them ideal for pirating and trafficking humans. Since there's no game mechanic for holding enemies or captives as working slaves, I will have to 'convert' them all to the way of the plantation via my three high social and shooting (hehe) skilled starters. These guys won't care if it's their friendly neighbors or pirates, all make good slave trade candidates or workers for the colony. The tribals are the hardest ones to convert though, right?

I still think a solid slave status option for captives would really make the game more fun than just keeping all those attacking raiders in chains and useless in a cell. Make them work! And if they suck at all skills, SELL them.

[ImNatalie]

Speaking of which, those slave traders need to come around more. I never see them!
And also on the whole break down with the Infants and the Breeders is all well and nice, but maybe too complex? I like the vat growing idea much better.

[ImNatalie]

Most colonies only last a couple of years, if that. How would children have any impact? You would be lucky to raise one to toddler in that time...

It's something to consider in the future. Besides, even if it was or was not a good idea, anyone with a functional reproductive system would still want to breed. It's something that would have to be physically removed from us to not default to that. (With some exceptions of course, asexuals  very much exist.)

Yes, asexuals exist (as I am one) but crashing on a planet with a small chance of surviving really shakes people up. I personally did not mention sexualities because Rimworld sorta "resets" people. That sounds weird. So if the colony is small and needs to survive, some people are going to have to do things that wouldn't usually do. Some people are going to have to expand the colony, (without kidnapping people.) I didn't put sexualities in my suggestion because it's also controversial.