Parka = winter cold is meaningless

[Draecesstra]

the problem with penalties is:
just creating more micromanagement without any benefit. why do they always run around in power armor or parkas? because we dont want to micro it every 2 minutes. 2 inventorys is probably not a really outshining solution, but it would work nice in terms of gameplay, of course not in realism, but gameplay should always come first?
Those ideas "quote"
Ideas:
-New negative thought/memory: "Slept in winter gear. It was uncomfortable."
-New negative thought/memory: "Cooked in winter gear. It was uncomfortable."
-New negative thought/memory: "Smelted in winter gear. It was uncomfortable."
-New negative thought/memory: "Used the crematorium in winter gear. It was uncomfortable."

-20% reduced productivity during delicate jobs like crafting, cooking, and art, ect...

-ability to flag an equipment rack as a 'closet'. Colonists will take off winter gear when entering a room with a 'closet' that has a free inventory space.
-maybe the inverse when entering a cold room? grab a parka when entering a walk in freezer, ect

they make sense, but what would it create? it would punish you for not microing your colonists cloth.
if there are only 3, it is "ok" amount of work.

but with 25 colonists, just "not neccessary amount of micro for not being punished".

at "le boss" dev log, he described some kind of "verschleiss" sry didn't find the right english word, maybe "wastage" "attrition" , i mean it is getting used/ or damaged and can break or be less usefull/ not full effective.

that idea with a 2nd inventory seems like a solution for the "dressing problem".
upside: always the right outfit
downside: double the "attrition" because "wearing 2 types at the same time".

if attrition is harsh enough, it creates "choices"
do my colonist really always have to "carry/wear" power armor? they are always best defended, but is the attrition worth it to do so? or may i consider to micro them to "safe" the expensive equipment?

Extra thought: 2 inventory may allow 2 "weapons" too, by that i mean, one normal weapon melee OR range and in the second slot, mining equipment, a sense, a stethoskop or maybe even a medkit for 1st aid in non bed situations.

Edit: think, post, edit grammar mistakes

[Johnny Masters]

why do they always run around in power armor or parkas? because we dont want to micro it every 2 minutes. 2 inventorys is probably not a really outshining solution

That's why (almost) every time i suggest more penalties to power armor (but also increasing its defense) I suggest a system to save loadout. So, for instance, you save a loadout for 'peace' that has only clothes and a pistol and a loadout for 'war', with power armor and a minigun. By pressing a single button (or by pressing an alarm button), you pawn would equip that loadout automatically. No microing.
But i also agree that having 2 inventories is not a solution.

hey make sense, but what would it create? it would punish you for not microing your colonists cloth.
if there are only 3, it is "ok" amount of work.

Agree, that's why we're discussing an automatic system.

that idea with a 2nd inventory seems like a solution for the "dressing problem".
upside: always the right outfit
downside: double the "attrition" because "wearing 2 types at the same time".

Check the idea by having only your shell/overhead clothes being automatically hidden/unhidden. Shell type of clothes are jackets like dusters and parkas. So it's not really a second inventory, it works like a minor 'loadout'. It's far more elegant than double inventories, but still feels like it's missing something.

Extra thought: 2 inventory may allow 2 "weapons" too (...)

That's also called extra slots. And it's one of my most wanted things ;_;

[adracko]

When I was in Navy bootcamp we carried parkas around in backpacks every time we went outside (which was alot). It might be reasonable to add the switch system if there was a backpack with its own limited inventory.

[Draecesstra]

thats also not a good solution. you change from peace to war, that means? where do they have their stuff?
all of your colonist outside of the base might be forced to die or the people won't use that feature at all.

hunting is peace or war?
a rageing muffalo attacks my miner, what happens? he runs home and equips?

i think, there will be no good solution, which includes the colonists to "go home and change cloth"
i would love a "save loadout" for positions. to prepare for a defense, it is now, do the same 20 clicks every time.
we all know how often our colonists are trapped or nearly trapped, when outside and a raid comes by.

also, think about mechanoids landing at your trading beacons. your colonists are farming and mining. all those guys wont be able to get their equipment and your doomed to die.

systems to haul the equip, dress differently, even if automatic (in the mechanoid szenario, all your guys would die automatically) will not work well. they might be realistic and are possible to code, but they would just create more damage than it would create fun.

i am still sticking to the "double inventory", the reason why, best way to implement without damaging the fun of the game.

also, to your first ideas with "New negative thought/memory"

imagine, you "forget" to set your guys to peace/war, and work a bit in your colony, those would just stack up really quickly just because you forgot something, which creates just more micromanaging.

im open for more ideas, maybe we can get to the point,where tynan cant say no^^ =)

[Johnny Masters]

No no, you mistaken my peace/war/loadout suggestion. I was merely referring that suggestion according to another problem, not for this topic problem specifically. 

It's just that the way i play, i find it breaks immersion having your people walk around armed to the teeth. So i usually disarm them (except for pistols or such) and make armories and weapon racks in strategic positions. The problem is equipping them all over when a raid comes. Like you said it's really annoying microing all the equipping, even though i do so from a story/roleplay perspective.

So a loadout could be war, peace or anything like A, B,C or farming&mining, sniper, assault, winter hunter or medic. Basically you'd have 1-3 loadouts (ABC, 123), so if you are equipping a pistol and pants and save to A, that's your loadout 1. Then you pick up a jacket and save to B. then your loadout B is pistol, pants and jacket. Then you drop everything and pick a sniper and save to C. Then every time you click to load B, you'd pick a pistol, pants and a jacket. If you load A, you'd simply drop the jacket. If you load C you'd drop the pistol and the pants and get a sniper.

I agree that such system wouldn't be very useful against orbital launches. Hopefully they only make a smaller portion of attacks, and in such cases you could care to micro all your equipping. Having some sort of warning system would also be neat.

But i digress...

I think extra slots would be awesome, a backpack slot would definitely make things clear. But I like the hide/unhidde shell apparel. 1. because it uses no extra system, 2. because you can easily abstract your pawn just carries the jacket around and puts it in some kind of hanger or on the ground while he works.

[erdrik]

...
systems to haul the equip, dress differently, even if automatic (in the mechanoid szenario, all your guys would die automatically) will not work well. they might be realistic and are possible to code, but they would just create more damage than it would create fun.
...

The same could be said for crypto chambers that block pathing between rich soil and your colony.
Or the landing spot, when you start, being too far away from where you want too set up the colony.
'Not fun' or 'fun' is completely subjective, and should NOT be used as a general measuring tool for features.
It needs to be specific.
Part of the whole point of this game is to survive by planning for the future.
If you set your farms too close to your trade beacons where hostile drop pods can land, thats YOUR fault for poor planning.
To me a 2nd inventory should only be available as a backpack, that you have to craft or buy from traders.
Otherwise having static inventories that colonists can auto-equip from is much more in line with surviving by planning for the future. (which is why I suggested them in the first place)

As for the 'micro management' argument:
You aren't changing outfits on a daily basis. Parkas for winter, take them off in summer.
That is a change of gear twice a year. Not nearly as bad as you claim, even with lots of colonists.
But granted it is still there, which is why I wanted the static inventories that colonists can auto-equip from.

[Draecesstra]

@erdik

with "fun" i meant a good gameplay and that should be primary, more than realism. with that in mind, good gameplay should be a big factor for every feature in the game. 

the idea with the bagpack sounds good.

Part of the whole point of this game is to survive by planning for the future.


As for the 'micro management' argument:
You aren't changing outfits on a daily basis. Parkas for winter, take them off in summer.
That is a change of gear twice a year. Not nearly as bad as you claim, even with lots of colonists.
But granted it is still there, which is why I wanted the static inventories that colonists can auto-equip from.

[/quote]
its not only summer and winter, also power armor or not. look at the ideas in the first post. right now, if you have 21 C in your colony, it would be most effitient to change the cloth everyday. cooling the bedroom to -2C to sleep well in a parker, doesnt sound right.

the problem is right now, equip parker, cool the hole colony to avoid heat probs, change later vs power armor


If you set your farms too close to your trade beacons where hostile drop pods can land, thats YOUR fault for poor planning.
[...]
Otherwise having static inventories that colonists can auto-equip from is much more in line with surviving by planning for the future. (which is why I suggested them in the first place)

[/quote]
my beacons are in the killbox, not really a problem, it was just an example.

the idea with that static inventory, it doesnt add anything to the game. just much to code and much to micro. how would you implement that? for every colonist a rack like those for weapons? assign it to every colonist? what if an item is detroyed, have to add it by hand everytime?

yes, it would be realistic, but what would it add? a stockpile at the entrance would already do that purpose.

[erdrik]

@erdik

with "fun" i meant a good gameplay and that should be primary, more than realism. with that in mind, good gameplay should be a big factor for every feature in the game. 

the idea with the bagpack sounds good.

What you've suggested is not good gameplay.
It is drastically out of balance with the difficulty of the rest of the game.
Also, Im did not ever suggest realism as the primary reason for for my suggestion.

its not only summer and winter, also power armor or not. look at the ideas in the first post.

I am the author of the first post.
Please don't be insulting.
(and point of clarification: First Post does not even mention power armor.
Maybe you should read first post.)

right now, if you have 21 C in your colony, it would be most effitient to change the cloth everyday. cooling the bedroom to -2C to sleep well in a parker, doesnt sound right.

the problem is right now, equip parker, cool the hole colony to avoid heat probs, change later vs power armor

What?! 21 C(69 F) is middle ground temp. You don't need a parka for that, and the temp isn't going to fluctuate enough to need one at the lows dips either. Just take them off and leave them off until winter.
At that temp it will probably be months before you need them again.
(unless there is a sudden heat wave, or cold snap. but that is a gameplay mechanic that is meant to make you change plans on the fly)

You 'problem' doesn't even make sense.
Im beginning to think you are trolling me...

my beacons are in the killbox, not really a problem, it was just an example.

It was a poor example then.
In your case you have a kill box, and your farms are safe, negating your own point.
In the general case, which is what I was referring to, those who don't plan their trade beacon placement with defense or avoidance in mind will have problems regardless.
Having a 2nd inventory in this case is in fact poor balance, because they no longer have to care about that kind of planning. (every colonist can have a 2nd inventory with defensive gear and not worry about sudden drop pod ambushes = bad gameplay, bad balance)

the idea with that static inventory, it doesnt add anything to the game. just much to code and much to micro. how would you implement that? for every colonist a rack like those for weapons? assign it to every colonist? what if an item is detroyed, have to add it by hand everytime?

First of all its not just a static inventory, and secondly how does it not?!
A static inventory that can be assigned as a 'closet'.
From which a colonist can auto-equip gear needed for their task.
How exactly does that not add anything to the game?!
It specifically adds a dedicated function/feature to the game.
And does so without using overly cheaty methods like a 2nd inventory.

yes, it would be realistic, but what would it add? a stockpile at the entrance would already do that purpose.

Incorrect. Stockpiles at the entrance do no such thing.
Colonist do not automatically equip the appropriate gear for the journey from stockpiles.
I have no clue how you came to that conclusion.