The Grand Exploration thread

[Quasarrgames]

Every other day i see threads saying "it would be great if we could go and attack pirate bases!" or "i'd love to be able to travel to different areas and explore!" It seems like being able to move around to different areas of the world is the most suggested feature for rimworld (aside from maybe multiplayer).

That is why i have made this thread, so we can collect and discuss ideas for how this would work.

Also, if you are reading this Tynan, it would be awesome if you could give a little feedback on this idea. like when/if you want to add it, how long it would take to implement, and wether or not you actually like this suggestion.

PEACE OUT!

[Johnny Masters]

Yeah, i think it's time we start organizing some of these recurrent ideas into a single place, it's wasteful seeing the same ideas getting brought up every other day. It's not that much of a trouble, i understand an enthusiastic newcomer trying to bring something he thinks is new, except it doesn't change anything and swamp any kind of 'progress' that was previously achieved (if any). Although it is necessary to re-thread an idea once in a while, so it won't bloat.

Either way, it would be nice (essential) to hear an official say on the subject, for my search-fu found nothing on it. For, if it's not even a remote possibility lets not even discuss further. Or if there's a particular way it will probably be or not be implemented it will help to focus the discussion, otherwise it's just mind wanking.

[BinaryBlackhole]

Adapting factions aka new colonies and factions becoming friends with each other. Small factions can be manipulated more easily meaning making friends early on is the easiest option.

[Johnny Masters]

Adapting factions aka new colonies and factions becoming friends with each other. Small factions can be manipulated more easily meaning making friends early on is the easiest option.

I'm sorry, i don't quite get the details of your ideas. I get the gist but it seems pretty vague, specially regarding the concept of exploration. Would you care to elaborate?

--
One crucial step for making it work should be random random colony generation or pre-generated ones, either by core or mod community. It would be fun having other players design (community sanctioned) settlements and have it randomly delivered/generated via some kind of server to your own world, so you can have hundreds of new places every game.

We shouldn't need to stop at settlements, we could create all kind of maps with triggers (eventually we should get map triggers, right?) and it's own stories, that are iterated with some random wild/empty (world)squares.
One player might create a single cave riddled with toxic waste, deadly robots and traps. At the end of the tunnel there could be mighty treasures, or nothing (think a rimworld dungeon crawl haha). Another could make a beautiful forest, filled with expensive crystal tulips (whatever) and mighty mutated lions.

Well, you get the idea. Another thing to consider is having foreign factions develop just as you develop yourself, so it never stagnate (although some might do). This could request an AI builder&manager or having each map have it's own development "steps" that gets unlocked depending on your or it's amount of wealth accumulated. (think small grained progression or big grained progressions).


P.S.: I just checked the changelog and since 1 jan Tynan has started working on automatic generation of colonies, so we got that going for us which is nice.

[Anduin1357]

Every other day i see threads saying "it would be great if we could go and attack pirate bases!" or "i'd love to be able to travel to different areas and explore!" It seems like being able to move around to different areas of the world is the most suggested feature for rimworld (aside from maybe multiplayer).

That is why i have made this thread, so we can collect and discuss ideas for how this would work.

Also, if you are reading this Tynan, it would be awesome if you could give a little feedback on this idea. like when/if you want to add it, how long it would take to implement, and wether or not you actually like this suggestion.

PEACE OUT!

I've made my own delicated thread here on the issue of both multiplayer and multi-map gaming.

[Johnny Masters]

I've made my own delicated thread here on the issue of both multiplayer and multi-map gaming.

Granted, exploration is (assumably) a far earlier step before jumping to multiplayer, at least how you envision in your post.

btw, i swear i want to contribute to your own thread, but i'm yet to find a way to be of any worth.

[Tynan]

I'm wary of this because it seems to divide the focus of the game. Everything in RW is designed around a highly integrated, rich experience focusing on the colony. Battles take place around the colony, in areas you've prepared, which mean something to you. So does trading and building and everything else. By concentrating the gameplay into one environment, the different parts of it interact and create new stories and meanings for players.

This breaks when you're traveling to other places. A battle at a pirate base just isn't the same as one at home.

That's not to say I don't think it could be really cool. But of all the things to work on, it doesn't strike me as the most cost-efficient way to add value to the game.

[Anduin1357]

Think of it this way, Tynan, You have a huge base after a couple of years, your colony wants to be rid of some bad guys who keep troubling the colony. We players need something to do after years of crashing. This is the late game content that deserves equally the same treatment as early game survival.
This is not a story about survivors of a crashed ship trying to get back home anymore, it's time to think ahead. Time to settle in and make a home. This is what makes Rimworld "Rimworld". The story is ongoing and it is about living on the Rimworld itself.
You may think that the story breaks if there was no survival, you are wrong.
Enough with the colony-management, now, it's time to do something with your colony than just add members, expand and turtle it to death. This is 21st Century gaming, the games from the advent of 64-bit architecture is going to add way more content than current Rimworld 32-bit >1,528 mb ram game. It may not be cost effective but this is the new framework for late-game content you will need to retain the players.

[Pirx Danford]

When reading this thread I had to think of this
http://www.mobygames.com/game/amiga/dune-ii-the-building-of-a-dynasty/screenshots/gameShotId,142588/

Its the "strategic" map of the predecessor of command&conquer "Dune II: The Building of a Dynasty".

I dunno... maybe there is a cost efficient way to slap some metagame as endgame on, like researching the political situation on the planet (I find it strange that one knows from the beginning on btw) and then acting on that in some form.

What about this maybe: armies are made up of much more soldiers than our few colonists, so if there is a larger conflict going on we could try to influence it as mercenaries.
So we find out what grander political factions are struggling and then through contact with them we get a contract to secure a certain sector on the planet.
Doing contracts like this could provide the resources for more difficult endgame scenarios...

[Johnny Masters]

I'm wary of this because it seems to divide the focus of the game. Everything in RW is designed around a highly integrated, rich experience focusing on the colony. Battles take place around the colony, in areas you've prepared, which mean something to you. So does trading and building and everything else. By concentrating the gameplay into one environment, the different parts of it interact and create new stories and meanings for players.

This breaks when you're traveling to other places. A battle at a pirate base just isn't the same as one at home.

Allow me to disagree based on this idea of yours: It's about the stories.

I agree yeah, the main and perhaps most important experience is based in and around your colony. But a colony is not a colony without colonists, so the main factor to generate stories are the people that inhabit the colony and by expanding where said people can go, you expand story.

I'm not saying to abandon the concept of building around a spot. Sure enough, your colony will always be your roots. There are hundreds of ways to tackle out-of-colony interaction, but you could say that you're most likely to act near and around it. I don't think a revenge battle at a pirate base, shortly after you defended home, wouldn't bring some glorious tales for the surviving heroes.

There's an event where a large group of people crosses your land in exodus and a text asks what might have drove such people away. Well, what if you have a colony swarmed (men or monster), without hope to win. Shouldn't you be able to get your remaining people to safety and try your luck elsewhere? Wouldn't it be nice to live that event through the fleeing eyes? 

I think there's some trigger in the game that stops you from being fully swarmed, but that's artificial and railroad story-making. We should go full story, free style lets-see-how-things-turn-out as long as we have the tools to do it.

That's not to say I don't think it could be really cool. But of all the things to work on, it doesn't strike me as the most cost-efficient way to add value to the game.

/Rallyambition

That's certainly quite the enterprise, but apart from implementing a single player campaign or a multi-player mode, it's one of the few ways to truly add value to the game. It actually could be the start of some sort of campaign, which in a game that has neither one nor multi-player, could really come in handy to up its value.

Right now everyone's happy because the base game is solid and there's regular updates to keep everyone interested and re-starting their games from scratch. But for how long are you planning to keep updating to such extent? Sure the mods play a large role, but the more tools you grant the more the game achieve.

I've played a lot of games, but too few have caught this much attention, but most of this attention is not based on what it is, but on what it can be. You can have thousand of posts going back and forth on how some people would like there to be children and some do not, how some would want z-levels some not, how this game needs a better tech tree or a simpler one, more meals or fewer... But i very much doubt there's many(if any) with a sane mind who wouldn't want  to be able to have some sort of campaign, explore or play with friends.

What I'm trying to say is that the game already is and will be pretty good, it can be a great little sandbox single player game that you play a couple of times, mod it a hundred perhaps... OR, by taking risks, it can become much much much more, it can be the stuff you remember things by.

/Rallyambitionoff

[Asero]

I tend to agree that the ability to do raids will ultimately shift the drive behind the entire 'feel' of the game as it is. I think the lure of expanding your colony all over the map is the entire motivation behind the current divide and conquer mentality. The game map (was possibly?) intended only to select a starting location. So in my opinion, the entire map interface should be squashed and a different/simpler interface should be created to select the starting variables.

My biggest problem with Rimworld is that there is currently nothing (other than the raids they can survive to a certain degree) that is forcing the colonists to build that spaceship and leave everything behind. The story revolves around a central issue (colonists get stranded on some desolate rock ) but that issue only comes into play when the colonists combined actions or decisions ultimately set events into motion in order to force the story to a climax, otherwise it might continue forever.

Possibly consider implementing sort of a 'timelock' to increase tension by bringing the story events closer to being an immediate problem; or even an 'optionlock' that increases tension by compounding a single event until that eventually becomes a distinct problem. Before the colonists can leave the rock there is a price that must be paid - and I feel that part is also being neglected...

The movie Flight of the Phoenix may be a good example of what I am talking about.

[Anduin1357]

I'm troubled there is even an end at all to the game. Sure you may think that leaving a rock is no big deal but building even a substellar rocket needs a nation in the first place. The game's escape mode is rubbish and fairytale like.
If I were them, I'd just stay on that rock and get myself remembered in name before I leave a legacy behind.
That should be the story. A sandbox RimWorld which stretches round and has no end to it.
This is RimWorld, A Sci-Fi Simulation/Management/Tactical Strategy game that has no end in it's story, it is an ongoing world where they live and rightfully so. This is the grandest of all stories, one that everyone wishes for.
I say this on anecdote, I watched Stargate SG-1 and I thought it might never end. Yet it did and it hung with a new adventure waiting for them. And I can't see it. Not the next world or the next day. Death for the observer.
I hated it, I wished it lasted for as long as they lived till old age or death. This is Rimworld, this is THE ongoing story that should never end. Now... Stargate Worlds total conversion please?

[Johnny Masters]

I tend to agree that the ability to do raids will ultimately shift the drive behind the entire 'feel' of the game as it is. I think the lure of expanding your colony all over the map (...)

What exactly is the feel of the game is mighty arguable. Sure, I launched the game and the most obvious feature is that you can build stuff. But that's the overlay, the game is about the pawns and events and what you do about it. For me there's a wild west feeling of an unlawful land that you are stranded in, far from home. I.e. Simcity is about the buildings, xcom is about the soldiers, Rimworld is about taming that land.

That being said, I don't propose "expanding all over the map". For certain, I agree your colony is your ground, where most of the story is spent. Certainly not peppering the map with towns. That would even be silly, because how could a few dozen people live kms apart and maintain so many villages? They cant.

But think of some stranded & survival movies and books. Lost, Lord of the flies, cast away, blue lagoon, crusoé, even flight of the phoenix. You can say they have a"starting colony", but every so often there are story events that brings them out of their colony.  Perhaps: there's not enough food so you must hunt; you hear a ship crash in the region and decide to investigate (maybe it's still working??); the land is bare and offers no chance of survival (shouldn't you be able to move out?); a far away distress beacon blips; an enemy camp lumbers in the distance, you might decide to strike first and take out a few of them; a dear friend is captured by said camp, shouldn't you try to free them?

In the end, you are going back to your crib or use what ever you learned so far if you ever decide to leave for another land. How many times we all have started a new colony anyway? Might as well use your old people. Moving between 2-3 squares could even be the stuff of years as you scrounge every bit of the land for your survival (but then i tend to cling more tho the survival feel of the game). In all the strategy games i've ever played there's a blissful feeling of building a town/base in one mission and watch it being re-used, exactly the same, in another mission. That sense of continuity alternated by exploration(other missions) is awesome.

Possibly consider implementing sort of a 'timelock' to increase tension by bringing the story events closer to being an immediate problem

I'm troubled there is even an end at all to the game. Sure you may think that leaving a rock is no big deal but building even a substellar rocket needs a nation in the first place. The game's escape mode is rubbish and fairytale like. (...)

Sadly all good things must have an end...BUT in the case of RW and how it works, i think there should be some kind of 'trigger' or a 'timelock' as Asero puts. I don't think the game should push you in a certain direction unless you start events that do so.

As end game is concerned, I'm not convinced by building a skeleton-like ship with scrap resources as well. I was thinking something along the lines of finding or building some beacon or a crashed ship and then proceeding to repair/use it/wait months or year for a specific rescue and that would draw the classic stand of or some sort of climax until you were done. That is depending on your AI director of course.

This could be part of the RNG (or set) world generation as well. The world might simply suck and push you into escaping it(too many disasters or an ever growing winter season); the world might be lush but filled with raiders, so to 'win' you might need to destroy their base. Or you might decide to stick around the planet and that's it, never draw such climax and play at leisure. The endgame might actually be "spread a come settle here beacon" and it ends with dozens of colonists arriving.


tl;dr: your starting colony is very important, and probably the center of the game, but IMO the game is about the colonists and their stories, not building killboxes. You might decide to be, but that doesn't precludes exploration from being a factor in story generation.

[Anduin1357]

Although the game is not about killboxes, every fort's front gate is a killbox. We all built our colonies as forts because it made it very easy for us to defend ourselves.  This is the practicality of fort building and this is how we all intend to play. The story is bland atm because all the AI can throw at us are weak mobs and siges with no tactics. I expect multiplayer will change things due to the use of strategy.
Nobody is at fault for building killboxes, it's just us adapting against the game.

[Johnny Masters]

Although the game is not about killboxes, every fort's front gate is a killbox. We all built our colonies as forts because it made it very easy for us to defend ourselves.  This is the practicality of fort building and this is how we all intend to play. The story is bland atm because all the AI can throw at us are weak mobs and siges with no tactics. I expect multiplayer will change things due to the use of strategy.
Nobody is at fault for building killboxes, it's just us adapting against the game.

Perhaps you should read my entire post, mentioning killboxes was a very little piece of fluff from everything i said, and i never said they or who built them are at fault