[A12d] More Mechanoids (v1.07b - updated 31.12.2015)

[Abrexus]

I'm also using activity on this thread as a bit of a measurement of how much interest there is from people to get an updated version.

All I have to say is Superior Crafting is not the same without the Mechanoid expansion pack!

[Asfalto]

I am interested, i loved you mod!

[AllenWL]

But... you can build another core instead of all those blocks, can't you?

That's a lot of AI cores. I don't know, but having to meet and beat 10+ ancient ships and god knows how much mechanoids, or spending a few thousand silver for some slightly better haulers doesn't seem like a good investment.

[thenightgaunt]

Yeah, it's not just the hackable mechanoids. I just really liked the addition of the new mechanoid types. I'd love to see this one updated to A10.

[kakafika]

Just came to see when I could look forward to using this mod in A10... I'll add my voice to the chorus of encouragement for an update!

[VonArens]

I too will add my voice to the petition to get this upgraded to A10

[BangUDie]

I too love having the crawler-haulers in my games....and would love this mod updated as well.

I also dont use the PAL due to construction costs and the fact it tends to mess up my save file...
Since your time appears to be thin, could the next version have PAL split off maybe and just have the new/re-programmable mech's to make future updating easier?
Either way know this mod is appreciated...

[Orion]

Splitting won't be an option, due to the complexity. I could remove PAL entirely, although I think that'd be a shame. Maybe it can be made to work better instead.

[kakafika]

Splitting won't be an option, due to the complexity. I could remove PAL entirely, although I think that'd be a shame. Maybe it can be made to work better instead.

I used this mod with Superior Crafting.

Some (hopefully) helpful criticism:

I will admit that I was also quite underwhelmed with PAL in regards to it's resource cost, space cost, and cost of cooling. By the time I got a good-sized computer running, it could only cover something like an eighth to a quarter of the mechanoids I had running around (3 cutters, 1 miner, 1 cook, and every crawler I could get my hands on to haul/clean).

I wouldn't build PAL again in its current state except as a resource sink and vanity item. Of course, at the point where building PAL becomes a priority, that just might be what this game needs...

Once I could reprogram mechs, I was looking forward to their raids even more than pirates, since I could repair every mech and they didn't have moods or need food like colonists. I had A LOT of fun putting out fires from Roombas short-circuiting and the occasional mech berserk was interesting. Perhaps these events (particularly the fires? I don't like the randomness of berserk damage...) could be made much more frequent for mechs not connected to PAL, and slightly more frequent even for PAL-controlled mechs. This would make PAL construction much more important and more valuable, as well as slightly decrease the value of mechs.

Crawlers are incredibly valuable, and abundant. Freeing up my colonists from those non-skilled jobs greatly increased my productivity. I used about 4-6 Scythers as plant cutters and a miner. It was a small map and I had some skilled miners, so I didn't need more than that. I never tried a doctor-bot because I had some very skilled doctors, and my colony was small so I only needed 1 cooking bot.

The raid makeup seems about right (a good, dangerous mix) and the jobs seem to fit thematically, so I'm not sure there's anything to do there. From a balance perspective, it seems a good idea to split the hauling and cleaning jobs to different mechs (at least one which is less abundant than the crawler type), but I enjoy seeing my army of ants hauling things and petting my hard-working Roombas... hopefully you won't find this necessary.

Perhaps the cost of reprogramming mechs should be increased? This may not apply to your mod, as I was using Superior Crafting and Abrexus may have changed the costs upon integration to use the resources at his disposal, or the costs he imported do not mesh well with other goods in the mod.

Is it possible to cause some mech corpses to be unrepairable? Maybe a chance to explode on death?

Perhaps there should be an intermediary step 'harvest mech parts.' It would then take several deceased mechs to create one reprogrammed one. 'Harvest mech parts' perhaps could give a different amount of parts for each mech type, possibly even based on the condition of the mech corpse (body parts destroyed decreases parts yielded... if that's even possible).

TL;DR
I like that PAL is a luxury good. Reducing number of reprogrammed mechs from each mech raid may help the pacing of PAL construction (meaning the player may have fewer mechs but will be able to keep most of them controlled by PAL). Increasing the cost of mechs may also help move toward that. More malfunctions will increase the cost of mechs and increase the value of building PAL (if PAL-control reduces malfunctions).

I realize that some of the suggestions above are quite ambitious and maybe outside the scope of what you had in mind for the mod. I just wanted to throw a bunch of ideas out there in the hopes that something would inspire =)

Thanks for all your work on this project!

[AllenWL]

Superior crafting uses steel/plasteel bars to craft, and I think it's 10 ores to 20 bars, so with Superior crafting, things would cost about 1/2 as they would without the mod. I think.

Personally, I think the PAL could be cheaper/more compact.

I mean, I pretty much just keep a miner, hauler, and cleaner(mainly because being in a dark dirty cave half the map away makes my colonists pretty unhappy), then turn all other mechanoids into plasteel/steel.

I mean, yea, I could keep more, but seeing that without a PAL, they tend to go rogue and stop every so often to 'cool down' I find that I just don't really want the bother. The PAL needs loads of resources, lots of room, and much power. All things that could be turned to things more profitable, like my year-round farm, or the base defenses. I can afford it for 3~5 mechanoids. Any more, and I really don't feel it's worth it.

On a totally unrelated note, I have a idea. What about instead of chipping dead mechanoids(which, really, is pretty easy to do), you need to repair and reprogram a incapacitated mechanoid? Just like harvesting parts from scyther or shutting down mechanoids, we would be able to repair and rechip incapacitated mechanoids from the health tab.

This would make it slightly more difficult to get mechanoid helpers without having us use tons of resorces to do so, and it would also mean that the more damaged a mechanoid is, the more resources it takes to repair it, so we won't have the things like, 'the resource it takes to repair and rechip this scyther that was blasted to pieces by grenades is the same as repairing that scyther that just lost a leg and was shut down!'

[Orion]

Thanks for the feedback guys!

kakafika, the way PAL is balanced is just so you don't build hundreds of mechanoids, since it's VERY powerful to have such a large workforce without needs for pretty much anything. I usually play with 4-8 mechanoids, optimally. Less while trying to size up PAL.

Having mechanoids makes a lot of things easier (e.g. keeping colonists happy and productive), so there must be a strong price tag attached.

It is already so that PAL reduces malfunctions of mechanoids. I do think I can make PAL increase a little less in cost towards higher levels, since it does get a bit ridiculous around 10. But then also, having 10 mechs slaving away day and night is a massive boost of productivity.


AllenWL, I was considering something along these lines. I think incapped mechanoids are too rare, but I do want to increase the cost of fixing up and repairing mechanoids to make it clear that they're high end stuff. The idea here is that repairs take spareparts which can be salvaged from other mechanoids corpses. So to keep repairing and chipping mechanoids you do need to entertain a collection of spareparts.

[AllenWL]

Maybe increase the chances for a mechanoid to be incapacitated by decreasing the chances of a important bit(like the data processing unit) being hit and increasing the chances for a not-so-important(like legs) bit being hit?

Maybe have mechanoid AI chips be a expensive trader-only item, like glitterworld medicine, or tv's?

Or instead of having mechanoids get salvaged into plasteel and steel, they turn into spareparts/advanced alloy(come on, they don't look like plasteel or steel at all)/special mechanoid thingys which can be melted down for metal in the electric furnace?

Just throwing ideas out there.

Oh, and another thing, repairing a mechanoid that has nearly every possible part ripped out should still take less then rechipping a dead mechanoid. 'Oh, let's just kill it and rechip it' should not be a viable option for repairing mechanoids.

Oh, and a totally random idea, but won't it be cool(and really annoying/scary/whatever) if you could make a tiny mechanoid type that can go through vents?

[Orion]

Maybe increase the chances for a mechanoid to be incapacitated by decreasing the chances of a important bit(like the data processing unit) being hit and increasing the chances for a not-so-important(like legs) bit being hit?

Maybe have mechanoid AI chips be a expensive trader-only item, like glitterworld medicine, or tv's?

Or instead of having mechanoids get salvaged into plasteel and steel, they turn into spareparts/advanced alloy(come on, they don't look like plasteel or steel at all)/special mechanoid thingys which can be melted down for metal in the electric furnace?

Just throwing ideas out there.

Oh, and another thing, repairing a mechanoid that has nearly every possible part ripped out should still take less then rechipping a dead mechanoid. 'Oh, let's just kill it and rechip it' should not be a viable option for repairing mechanoids.

Oh, and a totally random idea, but won't it be cool(and really annoying/scary/whatever) if you could make a tiny mechanoid type that can go through vents?

Interesting points. The biggest issue, though, is how rechipping works. I actually have to replace the whole object (it's an ingredient, actually) for a fresh one and can't change the recipe based on the condition of the object.
Best would be to make it an operation on the object, but I could never get that to work properly. Also then I have to come up with a way to communicate to the player why he can't do it, when certain parts are missing.

Interesting mechanoid type indeed. But I think I can't pull it off, because of how pathfinding works.

[numen0r]

any chance to expect an update soon?

[Ouan]

Somehow in my quests to make my awesome mountains of doom during Alpha 9, I missed this mod. Now I eagerly await the return of this mod for A10 since I have moved to modded A10 (since I always beat up the Alpha in nonmodded to try to break it first). This will go on my ever expanding wishlist for my next colony after my current modded colony goes into space (or dies in a blaze of glory(usually the later).