The Demands for Human Breeding (Discussions)(Poll)

[elStrages]

Warning!: this is a subjective post and peoples opinions may be bias to either argument, this is not a post of trolling.

Problem:
   So I have noticed that over the course of my month here that there are constant demands for the to be some sort of breeding amongst colonists, and although this is a valid idea to be put across it is becoming in my opinion monotonous.  As it stands there are only a few ways to get new colonists, capture and conversion or brought and converted.  I do agree that there needs to be some other ways of gaining colonist to aid you in your aim to leave the plant you so happen to be stuck on.  In the scheme of things, the need to escape by space craft and the life time of the game is it necessary to have breeding.   

My thoughts:
   At it stands I don't feel the game should have any sort of breeding for a few standard reasons.  The first of these and the most obvious is the time frame. Second to this is the need for care and cost.
   The overall time frame of the game as it stands is 15 days to every month, this means that people birthdays come round quicker, even so there is still at least 12 years of growth needed to make use of this pawn . At which point you could enslave them as child labour at that age (with research into slavery).  Unless you have the child grow two years for every year in which can you can have them in 6, but remember everyone has a birthday now every year. So unless you are popping out 16 year old colonists at birth then I don't see this as a viable option.
   The care and cost side is simple, children need looking after, that means more work for your pawns, that means less time for colony to be made and defended, research completed, space ships made and escape possible. If I was playing this game and had a choice I wouldn't bother a as it would have to be a later game exploration for when I have a few more colonists.

Solution:
   I'm not one to point out a problem that I feel need fixing without a possible solution in mind so here are my solutions.
1: First point of call the modding community:
   As it stands there is a great modding community here and I am sure if you got some of the c#/c++ programmers to gether then such things could be achieved. And they would most likely enjoy the challenge.  This would mean that the breeding side would be an added option made for the players who actually wanted it.
2: Increasing the ways to gather colonists:
   Additional systems could be made quite easily my Tynan in the form of say a recruiting system, or more random events for colonists to join.  Even a simple Mercenary faction that will offer you colonists for a small price is easily achieved with factions and events.  This might be a better solution to the problem.
3: As stated above, more event may be the key, especially form small colonies and lower tech colonies, leaving to join you in order to gain a better life and leave this planet they have been constricted too.

Summary:
  So I have put forward to thought and I hope you and a good opinion too.  I would like to hear it so we can discuss what you think.  I would genuinely like a good opinion on this and ways you think to should be solved if it is not introduced. Or you feel its a vital missing game mechanic. 
  I have placed a Poll too so those who don't feel like expressing can just have a vote.  I'm sure that members of the forum, testers and Tynan himself would like to know what the general consensus on this is as it would help him better develop his game for the community that support him. 
 
Thanks for ready. Happy Gaming.

[milon]

'Breeding' is a term that applies to animals, not people.  I'm in favor of being able to breed animals.  I don't really care about people having babies - as you said, the time frame really doesn't make sense.

[elStrages]

'Breeding' is a term that applies to animals, not people.  I'm in favor of being able to breed animals.  I don't really care about people having babies - as you said, the time frame really doesn't make sense.

That is a valid point, although breeding term is applies to any carnal activity in which offspring is made and can also mean to develop or train. I will amend the title to reflect I'm on about humans though, thanks

I think the timeframe will be the biggest argument, but we will see

[JanusBifrons]

To get around the age limit you could get creative...

Have a research unlock called a "Vat Chamber" in which, once built, children are placed until old enough to walk. Much like the stasis chambers. Make them age say 10-20x as fast in the chamber, as long as it has power. This way it'll take maybe 1 full year or 6 months solid in a chamber to grow a teenager old enough to contribute.

Then give them the "vat-grown" trait with negatives, perhaps.

This way when you first land you can try to avoid the colonists getting 'friendly' with each other because an unwanted pregnancy puts out a colonist for 9 months then you've got a baby to feed... basically forever unless you survive 10-years in game (which is impossible ATM I believe due to lag).

Then once you finally unlock the VAT Chamber, put the baby in it until teenager. Or if you've had no kids, let your colonists begin having them, and put them in the Chamber.

I think that would be pretty cool, and gives you choices. And imagine the attachment you'd feel if little Timmy who was born of two of your colonists gets his legs blown off in a fight after being raised for 3 years...

And then I can't wait to see the inevitable "look at this 15 year old I grew without a VAT Chamber!" posts.

[Sartain]

I'll post the same response I posted in the Suggestions forum:

So everyone's all "no, babies are useless because the game doesn't last long enough for them to grow up and be useful, contributing members of society" and I can't help but think that's exactly why they'd be awesome

I imagine it could work something like this:
Babies need to be fed, obviously. I'm thinking Nutrient Paste for the first couple of years and then regular meals like everyone else when they go from "baby" to "child". This would be a job that either of the parents would handle automatically, much like the Warden feeds prisoners. Alternately, a Communal Creche type of area could be available to build/zone and Childcare could be a job certain colonists were assigned to (this might also be the place where you build your Growth Enhancer, which I'd think should be a rather expensive, researchable feature).
Babies would also need a source of textile available for sanitary needs until they become older and magically stop pooping like the other colonists.

Babies and older children would be beneficial in terms of them both giving a rather large mood bonus to all colonists, so long as they're alive and healthy and an even larger bonus to their parents. Because children are the future, bundles of joy, etc etc. Of course, they might also be able to spawn negative mood effects sometimes (tantrums, keeps people up at night, stuff like that).

On the other hand, sick children would give a mood penalty and children who died would give a large mood penalty to the entire colony and a permanent, large mood penalty to the parents. Maybe the mood penalty would be fixable in case stuff like Psychology or mental treatments become part of the game.

Older children might also be able to handle some simple tasks like Hauling and Cleaning and once they reach a certain age (I'd say around 10-12 or so since it's a harsh colonial life where you need to learn to carry your weight ASAP) they'd grow into regular colonist with minimal skills (possibly affected by parents/Childcare colonists) and ready to learn.

[elStrages]

to: JanusBifrons
  I see what you are saying but is this a viable option for the in keeping of the game. I'm not convinced, as I said something like this might make a great mod but as for the actual standard game it self I wouldn't feel it in keeping.  Don't get me wrong would be a great idea to be able to grow people, just don't think it fits as standard

to: Sartain
  Is you first point not just adding to my point of wasting pawn time by adding even more jobs that could be better put elsewhere. I can understand it if you landed with a fleet of colonists but not when I takes a full 3/4 hours to build up 5 or 6 colonists if you lucky. I also would want to be pumping things like cloth into nappies when I need to be building paras and plush carpets to make people feel better.
  I get that there could be benefits, but I'm not sure if the benefits would outweigh the other side of the argument..
  The time from of these children is still a problem, it look be 2 hours to advance 6 months in game with it mostly on fast forward. so a child would essentially grow to working age on 10/12 in 40 - 60 game hours. and are most likely to die young in a raid or from the cold. I don't think life on the rim need the complications of children. No matter how many buff you throw at it, it is most likely going to be a long painful boring process that ends in death of babies and mental break of colonists.

[REMworlder]

There are many hypothetical implementations, but I agree child rearing simply doesn't add much to the game. At least it adds a lot less than many other potential features.

The feature's definitely not in line with Tynan's "ignore low-value tasks" iteration strategy. Definitely modding territory.

[Sartain]

to: JanusBifrons
  I see what you are saying but is this a viable option for the in keeping of the game. I'm not convinced, as I said something like this might make a great mod but as for the actual standard game it self I wouldn't feel it in keeping.  Don't get me wrong would be a great idea to be able to grow people, just don't think it fits as standard

to: Sartain
  Is you first point not just adding to my point of wasting pawn time by adding even more jobs that could be better put elsewhere. I can understand it if you landed with a fleet of colonists but not when I takes a full 3/4 hours to build up 5 or 6 colonists if you lucky. I also would want to be pumping things like cloth into nappies when I need to be building paras and plush carpets to make people feel better.
  I get that there could be benefits, but I'm not sure if the benefits would outweigh the other side of the argument..
  The time from of these children is still a problem, it look be 2 hours to advance 6 months in game with it mostly on fast forward. so a child would essentially grow to working age on 10/12 in 40 - 60 game hours. and are most likely to die young in a raid or from the cold. I don't think life on the rim need the complications of children. No matter how many buff you throw at it, it is most likely going to be a long painful boring process that ends in death of babies and mental break of colonists.

I'm always a fan of more resource drains and jobs to prioritize. I want the Survival element to really show and having enough guys and stuff to do everything isn't really as fun. It also makes reaching that point where your colony can manage high-maintenance stuff that much more satisfying.

[elStrages]

to: REMworlder
  I completely agree its definitely modding ground and ignoring low level tasks is a good strategy.

to: Sartain
I'm not sure I would agree with even more micromanagement. as this would definitely require new skill as well as loads of other things that would detract from the games theme and overall be pointless.

[Fishirboy]

'Breeding' is a term that applies to animals, not people.  I'm in favor of being able to breed animals.  I don't really care about people having babies - as you said, the time frame really doesn't make sense.

Even though at the end of the day humans are animals.

[Wolfen Waffle]

How about an event where children show up in your colony

The characters will already have a childhood in their character screen but nothing for their adulthood.
Where they could develop something for their adulthood

Such as, "Colony chief, or Colony guard, or Colony warden"
Based on what they are doing in the colony.

[Sartain]

to: Sartain
I'm not sure I would agree with even more micromanagement. as this would definitely require new skill as well as loads of other things that would detract from the games theme and overall be pointless.

Well since you personally  feel it to be pointless, I'm obviously totally mistaken

[elStrages]

to: Sartain
I'm not sure I would agree with even more micromanagement. as this would definitely require new skill as well as loads of other things that would detract from the games theme and overall be pointless.

Well since you personally  feel it to be pointless, I'm obviously totally mistaken

Just because I think its pointless, doesn't make you mistaken or wrong in anyway. It's just the way you enjoy the game, and I respect your point of view. In any case the game is great and you wouldn't have brought it if you didn't think what the game had already wasn't good, so at least we can agree on that

[evrett33]

I think having children around would add story to the colony. There could be an event where 2 parents flee to your colony with their child, who is a small pawn that doesnt work and moves around the compound fairly randomly..you'd want to keep danger away from him and get a massive moral bane if the child dies. Also there could be an event where a colony woman becomes preggo/has a baby. Thre could be several random mood buffs based on random circumstances of the birth. She would get a wrok effciently debuff and a visual pouch for 5 years when the baby would become a child. 

[elStrages]

Its a good point and looking on the poll its one that seems to be popular. only slightly outweighed by the combination of don't care don't want. I wonder if the view of the game concept that Tynan has maybe slightly different to the larger amount of public.  It seems Tynan wants an end game of escape where as people want to play a SimCity colony builder. I can see both having its appeals to different audiences.