Brewing Content Suggestion From A Brewer

Started by Zebulon, January 23, 2015, 03:48:30 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Zebulon

Short Form: Would you consider changing the "hops" to "barley"?

The new brewing system posted in the change log contains this familiar mistake I've seen in many games. I imagine it drives the other brewers nuts too, so I've nominated myself as advocate.

Beer is made from barley, not hops. Most games get the bread=wheat right, but then somehow make beer=hops instead of barley. Specifically malted barley (barley that has been made to sprout to an exact point and then dried).

Hops are used as a preservative, which might be useful to your game mechanics in establishing the spoilage. For bittering purposes, the sweet wort produced from 1 pound of malted barley requires less than two grams of hops to act as a preservative, something like 300:1 barley to hops ratio. Doesn't take much!

Might I make a further suggestion that liquor does not require hops as a preservative. The production of liquor is simple: First brew and ferment a strong beer/wine (called the mash in distilling jargon) from most any grain or fruit. Second, using a still you distill the alcohol from the beer/wine. That might be a better/other product for the game? Specifically "Vodka" does not require a barrel to age in and can be made from any number of fermentables, usually wheat or corn though potatoes are traditional...

Seem like a match for your system?

Use this concise information to whatever end you see fit. Thank you for reading my plea.

skullywag

well realistic modeling of processes seem to be a theme of Tynans so if he sees this im sure he'll take note. Take this as an agreement of the above also, would be awesome for this to be modelled on real life as much as possible.
Skullywag modded to death.
I'd never met an iterator I liked....until Zhentar saved me.
Why Unity5, WHY do you forsake me?

Coolrah

/signed but I'm wondering now if the Tynan's gonna add a new job or the cooks job is gonna be expanded. It would be cool if the higher skill your cook was the finer quality of alcohol they made and it would be less addicted than lets say a cook with lvl 3 skill. I'm hoping tynan includes the other types of liquid courage though and not just beer.

Kaelent

Agreed. I'm not a brewer, but I at least know that hops is secondary to the grain which is the primary ingredient is most brews. If we're going to add beer, why not other drinks as well? Wheat, berries, rice, barley, corn, and other fruits all make some form of alcoholic drink. Some of which are WAY easier to make than beer.

TrashMan

DRUNK status for colonists.

They can do random stuff while drunk.

skullywag

im guessing potato vodka would be added at somepoint, infact i would have thought its be the first drink given potatoes status within rimworld.
Skullywag modded to death.
I'd never met an iterator I liked....until Zhentar saved me.
Why Unity5, WHY do you forsake me?

Chibiabos

Quote from: skullywag on January 23, 2015, 07:26:13 AM
im guessing potato vodka would be added at somepoint, infact i would have thought its be the first drink given potatoes status within rimworld.

+1 to this!
Proud supporter of Rimworld since α7 (October 2014)!

Zebulon

#7
I've just realized that "Beer" should be changed to either "Brew" for a generic beverage or to "Ale" for a specific barley based beverage so that's my newest suggestion.

Also, I wrote this: The real world process is too involved for the game mechanics so I've been thinking how to simplify it.

1. Brewing is cooking, just boiling some fermentables. (Use the existing stove or make brew station with greater capacity, 3x I'm thinking)
2. Fermentation takes time of sitting in a container, 3 days minimum. (needs kegs or barrels)
3. After fermentation is complete, the brew is chilled, then ready to drink (cask rack+tapper(wood)? kegerator(metal, power)?)

Brew recipe ideas
Barley = Ale (yummy and fast)
corn = chicha (palatable and fast)
potato = vodka mash (is that even drinkable? I have no idea)
fruit = wine (yummy but takes longer to ferment, months)
honey = mead (good but takes forever to ferment, up to 1 year)

Distillation:
1. Have a "Still" (this is where i'd add a new piece of equipment)
2. Run X barrels of brew into it
3. Get 1 barrel of booze out

Thoughts on distillation recipes:
barley brew + wood barrel + time = scotch
corn brew (chicha) + wood barrel + time = bourbon
wheat, barley, corn, or potato brew + non wood barrel = vodka
agave brew + barrel + time = tequila
fruit brew (wine) + wood barrel + time = brandy

There are other concerns, like the yeast, the fermentation temp, and sanitation. Ohhhhh the sanitation. But I left all that muck out :-) I mean, we want to have fun right?

skullywag

oooh making it depend on the temperature would be cool, get better quality drink if you keep the temperature within certain parameters.
Skullywag modded to death.
I'd never met an iterator I liked....until Zhentar saved me.
Why Unity5, WHY do you forsake me?

thatguy1023

and tynnan should add drinking traits too and after effects "merry head by night, hale body by day." along with effects for different alcohol and level of quality

Zebulon

#10
Quote from: skullywag on January 23, 2015, 02:32:47 PM
oooh making it depend on the temperature would be cool, get better quality drink if you keep the temperature within certain parameters.

If desired for quality and spoilage I'd suggest that:
- low to mid 60's F is ideal for ferm. further:
--- lower temp stalls the ferment; beer low alcohol but drinkable (the residual sugars often make people gassy if you find that fun to add).
--- higher temps create more undesired compounds, fusals - the hangover esters; they also don't taste the best. But, some people like the esters a lot. so maybe you might allow people preference for estery ales (like belgians) over "high quality" ale if you like going crazy for detail.

- quality of stored unopened ale increases for maybe a week, stable for about three months before slowly losing quality, as long as stored below~ 40 and above 32F.
--- If it freezes it fucks it up, a bit. but if, while frozen, the ice crystals are removed leaving a concentrated beer with higher alcohol, you've now made an "ice beer". put that shit in a forty, dog.

- higher alcohol content, around 10%, makes beers that cellar well for over a year.
--- The overall range is generally 3-7%, up to 10-11. The absolute max (for instance when making a "mash" specifically to distill it) is usually ~20%. distillers use turbo yeast to get there, with grain mashes. Wine makers using champagne yeast can also get high teens.

Well, that was longer than I intended. heh

userfredle


Zebulon

#12
Beer is made from barley, not hops.

Alpha 9, subtitled "Tales 'o' Drinking", has now published with this ironic misunderstanding uncorrected. May I beg for a little exposure to draw attention to this error?

tommytom

Haven't paid close attention, but does it literally just brew from hops? If so, that is incorrect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hops

Used in beer and medicines.

Maybe it was quickly implemented and later you use hops WITH other plants (already have rice). It would make more sense to use some of your food. Apples (if ever implemented for wood/fruit) for hard cider or just cider, rice wine/beer, barley-based beer, etc.

Zebulon

#14
Quote from: tommytom on February 19, 2015, 03:25:32 PM
Haven't paid close attention, but does it literally just brew from hops? If so, that is incorrect.
...
Maybe it was quickly implemented and later you use hops WITH other plants (already have rice). It would make more sense to use some of your food. Apples (if ever implemented for wood/fruit) for hard cider or just cider, rice wine/beer, barley-based beer, etc.

Thank you for your response. Yes, the system currently uses only hops for brewing. If the word Hops was simply changed to Barley then it would become a lot more correct.

Hops as an ingredient was traditionally used as a preservative but in modern practice it is primarily just a flavoring. (Our modern day preservation relies on sanitation and air-tight storage) Hops are not used in any other alcohol type, only beer, primarily ales. So hops are only useful to the game for a much finer level of detail of brewing ale.

If you'll allow me, I'd love to assist in designing realistic but simplified brewing/distillation mechanics in an accurate way. I've thrown out a handful of ideas in previous posts above, and can throw out more.