Best Rifle?

[SimpletonSnowman]

So, i was wondering, what is considered to be the best rifle? the m-24, the m-16, or the R4 charge rifle?

[Stormkiko]

The way I run my colony (16 current colonists), I have my two best shooters with M-24s as counter snipers, I have ten with M-16s because they have a longer range and create just a storm of bullets, and then I have four with R-4s for people that get closer. I may balance it out more to be more or less even between M-16 and R-4.

[ShadowDragon8685]

That depends largely on the engagement range. The M-24 is the best if you're shooting over open terrain at a lone target which is much shorter ranged, such as a lone pistoleer or a psychotic muffalo.

M-24 sniper squads with free lines of sight are devastating. That goes both ways, though, so it's not recommended that the player attempt to exploit this, as the raiders will have a lot more gunners than the colonists will, and much better shots to boot.

At closer ranges, the R-4 charged rifle is pretty much king. The M-16 out-ranges it by a few tiles, but not many. The other weapons, I find, are simply not worth even bothering with - shotguns are very short-ranged and don't have the devastating effect that you'd expect a short-ranged shotgun blast to have, nor do they have the spread or accuracy bonus you'd want from a shotgun blast in a video game. Uzis have the single advantage that they recycle and fire quite quickly, but that's all they have - they're doing pistol damage and have bad accuracy compared to a rifle, and sadly suppressing fire doesn't exist. The Lee-Enfield is just a less-accurate, less-ranged sniper rifle, which is a real shame because IRL the Lee-Enfield is a wonderful gun. A person in a survival situation could hardly ask for a better bolt-action rifle. The T-24 incendiary launcher is utter dogshite. It takes a long time to fire, isn't terribly accurate, only fires one round, and if it hits it only sets the guy on fire. He'll run around for a few seconds and either put it out himself, or he'll run around, burning to death, and setting your base on fire.

So basically, you want to set things up so that the bad guys come into an enfilade of R-4 charge rifle shots with turrets to draw their fire. Or, alternatively, you just want to set explosives, lure them into a perfect explosive killbox, and blow them all to kingdom come, which results in many fewer casualties and much greater simplicity for you. Also, even blowing up fifteen miens at once is cheaper than losing three turrets in a pitched battle.

[Stormkiko]

Or, alternatively, you just want to set explosives, lure them into a perfect explosive killbox, and blow them all to kingdom come.

Haha, yeah I'm beginning to utilize this more and more. One of my defence angles that only sees action maybe once in twenty raids relies mainly on drawing them into a hallway lined with explosive. My main defence area is supplemented with lots of explosives as well.

Extra: Do you know if explosive damage stacks, or will two side by side charges only do the damage of one?

[Galileus]

I have succesfully evaporated a group of 20 raiders, their bodies and weapons with one blast... so I would say it stacks

[Stormkiko]

I have succesfully evaporated a group of 20 raiders, their bodies and weapons with one blast

Haha good to know. I've made the last line before my sand bags stacked so it's just a huge chain reaction and you usually end up breathing in raiders for a while. If they ever manage to get through the first door, while they pile up in the room trying to get the second door open I've got it rigged so the whole room would just fill with fire and chaos.

[EarthyTurtle]

The R4 is a bit better at crowd control I find. The M24 has great power, but it's reload time kills me and if you don't micromanage it correctly you end up wasting a lot of shot. That and it's really only effective in the hands of someone who's got high shooting.

If raiders don't have M24's or the range to use them, then the R4 is probably the best option.

[Stormkiko]

Yeah That's why I only have two snipers. They get the first, high damaging shots at enemies, they take out the other snipers, then they can just sit back taking pot shots at everyone.

[mumblemumble]

Shotgun COULD be good if the priming time between seeing / firing was faster (maybe pistol fast, but a longer reload of course) and a much higher damage. That way it would be fairly realistic to a real shotgun.

As for rifles, the r4 for anything closer than super far away.

But most important is managing which guy shoots which raider, if your snipers are shooting at pistol raiders while sniper raiders are dialing in, that's going to end bad.

[nnescio]

The shotgun main use was to stop grenadiers. On previous versions, the R-4 (along with the M-24 and M-16) was hard to come by, as there weren't any merc/sniper squads, so it requires a combat supplier to drop by and the RNG to be favorable.

It was quite accurate and the short range means your shotgunners weren't likely to spend time shooting at farther targets, but with the R-4 dropping like candy right now the shotgun is no longer quite useful.

Same goes for the Uzi. Those were quite useful as semi-crowd control as they have a high rate of stunning. Sadly, the R-4 blows it out of the water.

The Lee-Enfield is quite nice when you didn't have enough sniper rifles to go around, and massed T-24 incendiaries can throw raiders into sheer havoc and flush them out of cover. Again, all of these weapons become obsolete when v.250 came around and merc/sniper squads pop up all over the place. The more powerful weapons became common and well, your colonists are at a disadvantage if you don't use said powerful weapons.

[mumblemumble]

I get that its not BAD, I'm just saying in terms of shotguns in real combat, its used for quick, relatively easy fire at close range.

Thats why its so favorable for guerrilla warfare, you can see a guy and kill him pretty damn quick with it. Thats why I think a shorter "fuse" time, and higher damage would help, along with perhaps a range nerf. That way raiders rolling in deep to your base might be countered by shotguns blasting them as they round a corner.

Alternatively, perhaps giving it falloff damage, huge damage at point blank,  less at range.

[Galileus]

Thats why its so favorable for guerrilla warfare, you can see a guy and kill him pretty damn quick with it.

Wow. Just... wow.

AK47 and 74 kill "pretty darn quick" as well with the added pro of being way, way away from the other 20 guys around the target

[mumblemumble]

You laugh, but its true, you don't need to be as accurate due to the spread, and what I said is historically accurate. Sure an AK is just as fast in firing, but shotguns spread means accuracy isn't AS important, not to mention the smaller frames can mean more maneuverability / speed on getting a shot when in a dense area.

What I said shouldn't be a surprise at all... and real life aside, isn't that the functions of shotguns in literally any other video game?...doom, quake, cs, half life... I think they all operate that way, fast snap-firing close range powerhouses, and with the exception of CS, shotguns wipe the floor with other guns at point blank.

And in-case you didn't understand, guerrilla warfare is referring to fighting in jungles with limited visibility, which often lead to troops bumping into each other in spitting distances from each other. This is why the shotgun was favored, in that split second, its easier with the spread and tighter frame to get a shot off than with a rifle.

Just saying.

[Galileus]

Ah... I see... VIDEO GAMES SHOTGUNS...

Try some green tactics with M16 and then tell me what you think of switching to shotgun And for "wiping floors" I would still prefer a P90 or one of MP5's, its much faster to address multiple targets, doesn't suffer the small chamber issue and allows for medium to long range engagements as well. No tactical scenario is ever CQC only. Also, guerilla warfare relies heavily on sneak attacks, ambushes and hit&run where - again, a sub or assault does way better. Shotguns do well for a secondary arm, with the ability to breach, but suffer for fine-aim capabilities, range and chamber. Even when handling shotgun it is good to carry a small arm in case reloading is out of the question.

[mumblemumble]

Yeah, Smgs are also more adapted, but the long barrel of rifles gets in the way for close range in many scenarios.  And I'm speaking purely for "who can get a successful shot first" idea, sure it would be close, but a shorter barrel, and the spread means its easier to get the shot to hit than much more accurate bullets, even if they fire fast. You still need to aim more than you would for buckshot, since the spread is much more forgiving on if you hit or miss.

But, we are getting incredibly off topic here...Pm if you want to "debate" more.