[A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.5 (08.05.16) Final release

Started by NoImageAvailable, January 29, 2015, 12:27:41 PM

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Facepunch


NoImageAvailable

Update
Released 1.3.4, bunch of bugs got fixed, some changes to the mortar muzzle velocity which should make it more realistic. I also decided to increase projectile velocity for balancing reasons. Considering pawns have a base speed of 4.6 cells per second under the old model they were running around at over 60km/h. I therefore doubled projectile speed to bring lead distances more in line with what you would expect in the real world and to reduce the effect of pawns running away from particularly slow projectiles.

Quote from: akiceabear on September 10, 2015, 03:09:17 AM
Quote from: Commander Beanbag on September 10, 2015, 01:25:55 AM
Would you mind uploading the fix to the ghost pawns bug? I've been holding off starting a CR game until this was fixed.

Ditto. Love this nod but found those bugs very problematic...

Sorry, didn't realize how much of an issue these bugs were for people. The problem was fixing the mortar to fire on high trajectories (45-85°) caused the time to impact to be way higher than it should be. For that reason I had to implement a new functionality to simulate different muzzle velocities for different target ranges as you would get from using different charges on a real mortar, hence the delay.

I have now officially reached what I like to call the uncanny valley of realism, where a simulation is just realistic enough that any bit of abstraction causes complete garbage results and can only be fixed by making the simulation more accurate. I am therefore caught in a self-perpetuating cycle of realism that will only stop after projectiles have drift and wind physics with the rotation of the planet accounted for and pressure effects from firing weapons can kill or permanently injure pawns.

Quote from: Facepunch on September 10, 2015, 07:17:12 AM
Quote from: Latta on September 09, 2015, 09:14:26 PM
Check your machining table.

I'm talking about CR turrets, such as the M2

Those can only be bought from combat suppliers. If you want to do a quick test you can enable dev mode, open the debug console and use the "Replace all traders" command to spawn a bunch of traders. They're not guaranteed to be stocking turrets but most suppliers should have at least one or two for sale.
"The power of friendship destroyed the jellyfish."

NoImageAvailable

Update
Just uploaded a very small hotfix to fix a minor issue when firing mortars at specific ranges.
"The power of friendship destroyed the jellyfish."

akiceabear

Great! Will give this a try and send feedback probably by the end of the weekend.

rsof69

For some reason I dont see your turets

[attachment deleted due to age]

akiceabear

I don't think you can construct them, you have to craft them at the machining table.

Facepunch

Quote from: NoImageAvailable on September 10, 2015, 08:08:43 AM
I have now officially reached what I like to call the uncanny valley of realism, where a simulation is just realistic enough that any bit of abstraction causes complete garbage results and can only be fixed by making the simulation more accurate. I am therefore caught in a self-perpetuating cycle of realism that will only stop after projectiles have drift and wind physics with the rotation of the planet accounted for and pressure effects from firing weapons can kill or permanently injure pawns.
Don't forget to account for the metals involved in making the shell, temperatures, the ground material, the possibility of premature detonation, the possibility of late detonation, the possibility of duds, etc.

Thanks for the help, tho. Half the people I see around most forums woulda told me to figure it out after my second question, I appreciate it.

Kairo

Hi there  :)

is it me or centipedes are overpowered with that mod ?
Their heavy SMG seem very accurate with a very long range (more than my LMG). 2 of them killed 10 citizens in a second.
If that's normal then ok, got to find a better strategy next time.

Mechanoid Hivemind

Hey for some reason i cant use stone embrasures. They are from skully my pawns can be shot when standing in my bunker but cant shoot out? Why is that?
http://puu.sh/k8Ovs/5af8de74a4.jpg
http://puu.sh/k8Oxs/451b65651f.jpg
I am lost, a little incite might help as to why this is
The individual is obsolete. When you and your kind are extinct, we will cleanse our collective memory of the stain of your existence.

NoImageAvailable

Quote from: Kairo on September 10, 2015, 07:50:04 PM
Hi there  :)

is it me or centipedes are overpowered with that mod ?
Their heavy SMG seem very accurate with a very long range (more than my LMG). 2 of them killed 10 citizens in a second.
If that's normal then ok, got to find a better strategy next time.

Centipedes are intentionally beefed up a bit, but for the most part they're really not that dangerous as long as you don't try to fight them from half cover. Basically the whole trick is to bait an attack and as they warm up you break line of sight, while your other colonists plink away at them.

In an ideal future scenario they would actually spawn as tag teams with one Centipede and Scyther each moving in formation, Scyther using the Centipede as cover. As the Centipede pins your pawn in place with suppression the Scyther circles around for a flank, but we're not quite there yet unfortunately.

Quote from: Mechanoid Hivemind on September 12, 2015, 01:21:51 PM
Hey for some reason i cant use stone embrasures. They are from skully my pawns can be shot when standing in my bunker but cant shoot out? Why is that?
http://puu.sh/k8Ovs/5af8de74a4.jpg
http://puu.sh/k8Oxs/451b65651f.jpg
I am lost, a little incite might help as to why this is

I'll have to put this in the OP at some point, embrasures from other mods are basically guaranteed to be incompatible. They're too high for your pawns to shoot through. If you want embrasures use the CR Defence Pack instead.
"The power of friendship destroyed the jellyfish."

Mechanoid Hivemind

The individual is obsolete. When you and your kind are extinct, we will cleanse our collective memory of the stain of your existence.

Kulverstukass

QuoteI'll have to put this in the OP at some point
I would also ask to add note that "Enhanced Development, F/K/A Enhanced Defence Enhanced, F/K/A Jaxxa's Shields" are also useless with CR, except for "Personal Nano-shield" part, it works fine.

Bad english rant ahead

And centipedes will always be overpowered, or anyone with minigun, due to retarded interaction between projectile and cover.
As there is no actual cover, just buff-style magnet that redirects bullet into itself, IF bullet was calculated to LAND on pawn with buff *behind cover*. If bullet had missed in 'calculated' part of shot, but trajectory leads behind pawn, thus passes through tile with pawn, it would hit it, and with CR mechanics for more precise hits in such situation, it makes situation with minigun's bullet spread even worse, as much more bullets would be flying through tile with pawn, theoretically missing him, but also being calculated "to land somewhere behind pawn-behind-embrasure" passing through cover freely, thus hitting him.

Quote from: Mechanoid Hivemind on September 12, 2015, 03:01:00 PM
I have it installed but where do i find them at?
Structures tab, as it's just "walls with holes"
Keep calm and become one with Russia, da?

NoImageAvailable

Quote from: Kulverstukass on September 12, 2015, 03:17:14 PM
QuoteI'll have to put this in the OP at some point
I would also ask to add note that "Enhanced Development, F/K/A Enhanced Defence Enhanced, F/K/A Jaxxa's Shields" are also useless with CR, except for "Personal Nano-shield" part, it works fine.

Which parts exactly do not work? As it is, any cover with fillPercent 0.75 or higher will be impossible to shoot through.

QuoteBad english rant ahead

Most of that stuff is actually inapplicable with CR, bullet height and shot angle are tracked, there is no RNG involved in determining hit or miss like in vanilla. If a pawn is standing behind a rock chunk it has a height of 0.5 while the pawn has 1.0 and the minigun will be aiming at height 0.75. If the recoil makes it so that its height at impact is 0.5 or lower it will hit the chunk, if height is higher than 1.0 it will go above the pawn. There are no magic bullet magnets, the only problem is you're basically going up against this so chances are more than a few bullets will hit into that range between 0.5 and 1.0.

QuoteKeep calm and become one with Russia, da?

Now I want to add a new raider faction called "polite people"
"The power of friendship destroyed the jellyfish."

Kulverstukass

Quote from: NoImageAvailable on September 12, 2015, 03:50:29 PM
Which parts exactly do not work?
All static shields, bullets just go through, regardless if there generated *field* or is it *wrapper* as SIF-shield provide.
There is nothing related to shield itself outside of .dll, can't say anything.
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=15606.0

Quote from: NoImageAvailable on September 12, 2015, 03:50:29 PM
Most of that stuff is actually inapplicable with CR...
Looks like I've used not perfectly fitting word here, logic was *your mod and this thread relate to this mechanics*, not that CR cause this, surely :)
Quote from: NoImageAvailable on September 12, 2015, 03:50:29 PM
...bullet height and shot angle are tracked, there is no RNG involved in determining hit or miss like in vanilla. If a pawn is standing behind a rock chunk it has a height of 0.5 while the pawn has 1.0 and the minigun will be aiming at height 0.75. If the recoil makes it so that its height at impact is 0.5 or lower it will hit the chunk, if height is higher than 1.0 it will go above the pawn.
I've checked, to be sure, that your Embrasures = Walls in terms *altitudeLayer*, difference just in *fillPercent*, rendering 73% to *catch passing bullet*. Yet, even with .99 fillPercent game allow nice amount of bullets to pass through (saying from first appearance of embrasures for RW), and 2 layers of them doesn't make 2 checks with 99% percent to fail for bullets, even if old *to hit chance popup message* was saying, i've tried that and it didn't work at all, first (outside) layer receive damage ONLY in situation of complete miss by shooter, when bullet will fall on that tile anyway.
Quote from: NoImageAvailable on September 12, 2015, 03:50:29 PM
There are no magic bullet magnets
Just one step from embrasure - and there is no cover, yet building itself didn't disappeared, how would you call that then?
It's fine with small cover like chunks/sandbags, their height is small, but wall embrasure is BuildingTall...
Quote from: NoImageAvailable on September 12, 2015, 03:50:29 PM
QuoteKeep calm and become one with Russia, da?
Now I want to add a new raider faction called "polite people"
Gotta do a lot of work in a very complicated event, like *Spy revealed* from some other mod (TTM maybe it was?), but involving more than one colonist, that was poorly treated, and, after exile (or death, it's RW after all) of colony leader (gotta add that too i guess), group of pawns (that wasn't in starting group) gotta call themselves independent from main colony group, aaaaand here goes *raider faction called "polite people"*, that rush in and, well, works as peacekeeping unit, preventing player from resolving situation fast and bloody, until that group of separatists will be treated good or (with some timer visible, to not be surprised) they declare themselves independent and join that *raider faction called "polite people"*.  Brand new AI, so they would not leave map but settle somewhere near - would be too much awesome to ask, lol.
Keep calm and become one with Russia, da?

NoImageAvailable

Quote from: Kulverstukass on September 12, 2015, 04:51:56 PM
I've checked, to be sure, that your Embrasures = Walls in terms *altitudeLayer*, difference just in *fillPercent*, rendering 73% to *catch passing bullet*. Yet, even with .99 fillPercent game allow nice amount of bullets to pass through (saying from first appearance of embrasures for RW), and 2 layers of them doesn't make 2 checks with 99% percent to fail for bullets, even if old *to hit chance popup message* was saying, i've tried that and it didn't work at all, first (outside) layer receive damage ONLY in situation of complete miss by shooter, when bullet will fall on that tile anyway.

The old system had a lot of issues and exploits which is why it was replaced completely. You're really best off just forgetting it existed when considering the CR system because they are so different they're beyond comparison. Even comparisons with RTS games fall flat, the CR system is closer to what you have in ArmA than anything.

QuoteJust one step from embrasure - and there is no cover, yet building itself didn't disappeared, how would you call that then?
It's fine with small cover like chunks/sandbags, their height is small, but wall embrasure is BuildingTall...

That's actually something of a necessary oversight in the algorithm which detects viable shooting positions. It only takes into account cover directly in front of shooter and target because otherwise you'd get big performance dips from endgame raids with 100+ tribals (well, bigger than usual). It doesn't cause issues in CR except in fringe cases (squirrel one tile away from sandbags), only when you combine it with modded embrasures does it cause weirdness in combination with the minimum collision distance.

However, now that you mention it there is a potential exploit but in the opposite way, standing one tile away from cover would make attackers aim lower than they should and hit cover more often. I'll get that one fixed for the next version.
"The power of friendship destroyed the jellyfish."