[A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.5 (08.05.16) Final release

Started by NoImageAvailable, January 29, 2015, 12:27:41 PM

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AllenWL

#660
Eh, just thought it might be a nice way of taking care of sappers or manhunter packs.

Then again, that is rather a narrow usage. On the other hand, it might be a way to attack pawns that are hunkered down/suppressed. On the other other hand, there are tons of ways to deal with that anyways so...

Edit:
For some reason, it looks like if you install the 'mad skills' mod with combat realism, the reload button disappears?

Dugalle900

Quote from: AllenWL on February 12, 2016, 09:16:25 AM
Edit:
For some reason, it looks like if you install the 'mad skills' mod with combat realism, the reload button disappears?

I have both and the button appears.

My problem is that the traders never have any of the "Defense" pack turrets.
Quote from: Ouan on March 09, 2016, 10:33:20 PM
I see that the rumors that Skullywag modded himself to death were greatly exaggerated.

NoImageAvailable

Quote from: Dugalle900 on February 19, 2016, 10:47:49 PM
My problem is that the traders never have any of the "Defense" pack turrets.

Do you have any other mods making changes to combat suppliers?
"The power of friendship destroyed the jellyfish."

Dugalle900

Not that I can think of. I checked the TraderKind def file on the ones that I though might have changed the combat suplier but didn't find anything. Anyway, here are my mods in case I missed something:

http://imgur.com/YxgKYGT
http://imgur.com/fI6omLL
http://imgur.com/6C1DiXP
Quote from: Ouan on March 09, 2016, 10:33:20 PM
I see that the rumors that Skullywag modded himself to death were greatly exaggerated.

AllenWL

Quote from: Dugalle900 on February 19, 2016, 10:47:49 PM
Quote from: AllenWL on February 12, 2016, 09:16:25 AM
Edit:
For some reason, it looks like if you install the 'mad skills' mod with combat realism, the reload button disappears?

I have both and the button appears.

My problem is that the traders never have any of the "Defense" pack turrets.
Looks like it was a problem because I added it in after, because things were fine when I started a new game.
Also, it looks like more mechanoids loaded before this causes a crash, but more mechanoids loaded after this doesn't.

Dugalle900

This mod has something wrong (or right I suppose) with More Mechanoids. I added it in and the turrets started showing up on the combat traders  :o
Quote from: Ouan on March 09, 2016, 10:33:20 PM
I see that the rumors that Skullywag modded himself to death were greatly exaggerated.

Boston

Hello,

I just downloaded the newest version of the Vegetable Garden Mod, and now Combat Realism isn't working. When I start a game, CR isn't one of the mods labelled as working on the "debug start" popup, and my pawns don't get the CR "addons" for firearms: ammunition, all that.

Here is a list of my mods, in order:
Core
EdB Mod Order
Vegetable Garden
Animal Hide working
COntainers for Stuff
EdB Prepare carefully
Enviro SK
Fish Industry
Medieval Shields
Micellaneous HiRes
More Factions Spawn
Modular Tables
Right tool for the Job
Tools for Hauling
Fences
Rimhair
Community Core Library
CCL-Vanilla Tweaks
Combat Realism Core
Combat realism defense pack

Any pointers?

Tatte

~Tatte~

NoImageAvailable

So RL being what it is I've been kinda busy as of late so progress on the next update has slowed down (that and I've been working on another mod project for XCOM 2 since that's out now). Now I've freed up some time though and I've made a good bit of progress towards finishing the next big CR update so here's a little preview of what I've been working on recently:

One of the biggest problems of the new aiming system was how intransparent it was. A lot of it came down to it displaying outdated or inaccurate stats and hit probabilities that didn't correspond to anything. This next update I'm focusing on polishing the existing systems rather than adding new content and part of that is tidying up the UI and displays. Guns will now display their stats properly and the tooltip box that appears when you hover over an enemy won't tell you about vanilla hit chances that have no bearing on anything but show actually relevant data. This should cut down on confusion for users and hopefully make previously obtuse systems much more accessible and understandable.

Quote from: Boston on February 27, 2016, 06:42:37 AM
Any pointers?

Nothing in the modlist stands out to me at first glance, does the output_log.txt say anything?
"The power of friendship destroyed the jellyfish."

Grimandevil

btw, could you maybe include ammo capacity and reload time in the weapon info window? if theres still some space left.
welcome to the Rimworld - a world full of cannibal drug-addicted psychos, but free of vegetarians.

AllenWL

This could just be me, but the spread weapon sway might as well be the old vanilla values to me.

I can't even begin to guess what 0.06 degrees might be like, or how a 0.70 weapon sway would effect colonist accuracy other then 'smaller values=(probably)more accurate'

Alistaire

Quote from: AllenWL on March 03, 2016, 01:44:38 AM
This could just be me, but the spread weapon sway might as well be the old vanilla values to me.

I can't even begin to guess what 0.06 degrees might be like, or how a 0.70 weapon sway would effect colonist accuracy other then 'smaller values=(probably)more accurate'

The hover texts for those stats could help with explaining that. Weapon sway is the amplitude of a lissajous figure which is proportional to a spread angle perpendicular to the target, basically pawns wiggle a bit when holding their gun and that pattern is visualized by a lissajous figure.



The middle would be a shot directly into the target and anything away from the middle is a spread in degrees away from the perfect shot. The position on the lissajous curve is updated every tick, meaning you see a nice lissajous pattern when shooting a gun.

The spread value of a gun indicates a limit to a random angle deviation which only plays a role upon firing the gun and it's a consequence of having low health firearms around (or poorly produced ones). The only way to influence this is to have high quality, good health firearms though since it's a limit of a random function it's unlikely for your guns to miss fire constantly even at very high bullet spread.

NoImageAvailable

Quote from: AllenWL on March 03, 2016, 01:44:38 AM
This could just be me, but the spread weapon sway might as well be the old vanilla values to me.

I can't even begin to guess what 0.06 degrees might be like, or how a 0.70 weapon sway would effect colonist accuracy other then 'smaller values=(probably)more accurate'

That's expected. Its one of the downsides of using a complicated system like this, conveying the mechanics to the player becomes difficult. Aside from including more detailed descriptions of the various stats there will also be tooltips when hovering over a target that give you a better idea of the practical effects. For example hovering over a charging raider would tell you that your pawn will be able to lead him with up to 0.3 cells accuracy and going over the stat descriptions would tell you that a pawn's aiming skill is multiplied by the gun's accuracy stat to calculate how accurately you will be able to lead a target.

Even so I imagine a number of people won't quite understand every nuance of the system but I think that's fine. The important thing is that if you know general principles like less spread is more accurate and that sway scales with shooting skill, etc. you can make informed decisions based on that and compare different guns more fairly. Before you might see a gun that has better accuracy values and think it is better than another gun but it actually had more spread and sway and was therefore worse, etc.

Lastly I kept hearing about people who saw the vanilla tooltips about shots having x% chance to hit and thinking those were accurate numbers so even if people take nothing from the new values at least they won't be mislead by old values that don't correspond to anything anymore.

Quote from: Grimandevil on March 02, 2016, 02:32:59 PM
btw, could you maybe include ammo capacity and reload time in the weapon info window? if theres still some space left.

Certain stats probably won't make it into the info window proper but they will be listed in the description of the weapon itself. E.g. the description for a survival rifle would read something like "Probably pulled from a basement somewhere. armor penetration 70%, magazine size: 10, reload time 3 s". This is due to technical limitations and can't be changed without a lot of effort on my part so this will have to do for now.
"The power of friendship destroyed the jellyfish."

AllenWL

Quote from: NoImageAvailable on March 03, 2016, 04:58:03 AM
Quote from: AllenWL on March 03, 2016, 01:44:38 AM
This could just be me, but the spread weapon sway might as well be the old vanilla values to me.

I can't even begin to guess what 0.06 degrees might be like, or how a 0.70 weapon sway would effect colonist accuracy other then 'smaller values=(probably)more accurate'

That's expected. Its one of the downsides of using a complicated system like this, conveying the mechanics to the player becomes difficult. Aside from including more detailed descriptions of the various stats there will also be tooltips when hovering over a target that give you a better idea of the practical effects. For example hovering over a charging raider would tell you that your pawn will be able to lead him with up to 0.3 cells accuracy and going over the stat descriptions would tell you that a pawn's aiming skill is multiplied by the gun's accuracy stat to calculate how accurately you will be able to lead a target.

Even so I imagine a number of people won't quite understand every nuance of the system but I think that's fine. The important thing is that if you know general principles like less spread is more accurate and that sway scales with shooting skill, etc. you can make informed decisions based on that and compare different guns more fairly. Before you might see a gun that has better accuracy values and think it is better than another gun but it actually had more spread and sway and was therefore worse, etc.

Lastly I kept hearing about people who saw the vanilla tooltips about shots having x% chance to hit and thinking those were accurate numbers so even if people take nothing from the new values at least they won't be mislead by old values that don't correspond to anything anymore.

Quote from: Grimandevil on March 02, 2016, 02:32:59 PM
btw, could you maybe include ammo capacity and reload time in the weapon info window? if theres still some space left.

Certain stats probably won't make it into the info window proper but they will be listed in the description of the weapon itself. E.g. the description for a survival rifle would read something like "Probably pulled from a basement somewhere. armor penetration 70%, magazine size: 10, reload time 3 s". This is due to technical limitations and can't be changed without a lot of effort on my part so this will have to do for now.

I think it'll be nice to have a bit more text explaining the stats a bit more.
Like, whether a higher shooting skill can reduce that value or something.
I mean, I can guess that aiming accuracy is probably how well you can point at a target with the gun, sway is how much the gun is moving, and spread is how much the bullet can deviate from the 'crosshair' when shot, but it's difficulty to know which stats effects what more.
Like, will a weapon with small spread but large sway be better or worse towards a weapon with small sway but large spread?
Will I benefit from giving my small spread, large sway weapon to my best shooter, or worst?

Or a 'general accuracy' which could be something like 'the accuracy if a pawn with 10 shooting skill was using this weapon on a stationary target' which lets us compare things easier

Kardek

NoImageAvailable thanks so much for this mod. I find it amazing. However can I request apart from transparency in the detail of the mechanics could you also please consider addressing harmony with the 3rd party shield mods. I saw some messaging to do with the bullet velocity is too high and renders some of the new shields ineffective? With this resolved I would have utopia in my rimworld universe :)

Thanks again!