[A13] Combat Realism v.1.6.5 (08.05.16) Final release

[Britnoth]

Awesome to see this coming back. Thanks skyark!

You should totally just add this to the base game.

Um, no.

The fixes to collision are nice and should be looked at adding to vanilla.

Adding in the totally overpowered weapons in CR? hell no. 1 man with an incendiary launcher can solo sieges or ship parts.
Having a hand held, accurate, AoE weapon that can kill a centipede in 3-4 shots is just ridiculous.

Adding in the ridiculously deadly combat that kills people in 1 burst? Even more hell no.
Once you get get a few good guns, you can fend off stupidly large raids with them. More deadly guns favour the defender, which is already easy enough as it is. Equally, any mistake or lack of micro results in dead colonists left and right. This makes actually fighting with your guys even more risky for new players, forcing newbies to rely even more on turrets than they already do.

Adding in gun nut fetishist levels of weapon types and ammunition? Hell no.
Rockets are the only single use item in vanilla for good reason. For every person that likes the ammo, I suspect there are a dozen that do not.
And once you have machining up, making ammo is available and just becomes a micromanagement. At least the mod has auto equip....

But by the looks, this 'update' is just a straight copy judging by the huge numbers of things that are now broken. I only played for 10 days and noticed an FPS drop on speed 3. Log showed an error every tick lagging the game with just 4 people and no enemies on the map, so god knows how bad it gets later on.

Uninstalled, hopefully this will be fixed back to a playable level, as it has some interesting features behind all its broken mechanics and weapons.

[Reviire]

Awesome to see this coming back. Thanks skyark!

You should totally just add this to the base game.

Um, no.

The fixes to collision are nice and should be looked at adding to vanilla.

Adding in the totally overpowered weapons in CR? hell no. 1 man with an incendiary launcher can solo sieges or ship parts.
Having a hand held, accurate, AoE weapon that can kill a centipede in 3-4 shots is just ridiculous.

Adding in the ridiculously deadly combat that kills people in 1 burst? Even more hell no.
Once you get get a few good guns, you can fend off stupidly large raids with them. More deadly guns favour the defender, which is already easy enough as it is. Equally, any mistake or lack of micro results in dead colonists left and right. This makes actually fighting with your guys even more risky for new players, forcing newbies to rely even more on turrets than they already do.

Adding in gun nut fetishist levels of weapon types and ammunition? Hell no.
Rockets are the only single use item in vanilla for good reason. For every person that likes the ammo, I suspect there are a dozen that do not.
And once you have machining up, making ammo is available and just becomes a micromanagement. At least the mod has auto equip....

It doesn't need to be forced, just an option. But if it's maintained by one of the developers of the game, we never have to worry about it completely breaking on a new version. But, yes this does make fighting risky, which is the fun part. You don't need to resort to giant killboxes filled with automatic turrets either, which is pretty great.

Also uh, making ammo isn't micro management, you do know you can automate this stuff right?

[Thorbane]

Any errors, bug-reports, please send in github too.
https://github.com/skyarkhangel/CombatRealism
I have a lot of other modifications and such lack of time, please, if you found a bug, which can be fixed in XML - do it. I accept your changes.

You need to check the issues option in your repo settings for the issues tab to appear, otherwise reporting bugs on github is rather difficult.

[Vek17]

Any errors, bug-reports, please send in github too.
https://github.com/skyarkhangel/CombatRealism
I have a lot of other modifications and such lack of time, please, if you found a bug, which can be fixed in XML - do it. I accept your changes.

You need to check the issues option in your repo settings for the issues tab to appear, otherwise reporting bugs on github is rather difficult.

Please do this. I don't have fixes for a lot of the issues I am seeing but I have been spending a fair bit of time trying to isolate everything I am seeing and having a proper place to make sure issues are reported is helpful when dealing with something like this.

Um, no.

The fixes to collision are nice and should be looked at adding to vanilla.

Adding in the totally overpowered weapons in CR? hell no. 1 man with an incendiary launcher can solo sieges or ship parts.
Having a hand held, accurate, AoE weapon that can kill a centipede in 3-4 shots is just ridiculous.

Adding in the ridiculously deadly combat that kills people in 1 burst? Even more hell no.
Once you get get a few good guns, you can fend off stupidly large raids with them. More deadly guns favour the defender, which is already easy enough as it is. Equally, any mistake or lack of micro results in dead colonists left and right. This makes actually fighting with your guys even more risky for new players, forcing newbies to rely even more on turrets than they already do.

Adding in gun nut fetishist levels of weapon types and ammunition? Hell no.
Rockets are the only single use item in vanilla for good reason. For every person that likes the ammo, I suspect there are a dozen that do not.
And once you have machining up, making ammo is available and just becomes a micromanagement. At least the mod has auto equip....

But by the looks, this 'update' is just a straight copy judging by the huge numbers of things that are now broken. I only played for 10 days and noticed an FPS drop on speed 3. Log showed an error every tick lagging the game with just 4 people and no enemies on the map, so god knows how bad it gets later on.

Uninstalled, hopefully this will be fixed back to a playable level, as it has some interesting features behind all its broken mechanics and weapons.

I think there are more useful additions then just the collision changes like the inventory and loadout systems which would imo be good changes even with vanilla mechanics. I personally think ammo adds a lot to the survival feel of the game but if it were to become a vanilla system it would most likely be simplified somewhat. That said there are already some really micromanagy mechanics in vanilla like passive clothing decay which is WAY more annoying then ammo in this mod.

The combat I could see going either way but the vanilla system definitely feels like it devolves into tower defense way more which is a big negative for me. I do think some of the concepts in CR combat could be integrated into vanilla in a way that would improve the experience and make the game less forced into kill boxes in the late map stages.

[Grogfeld]

I would gladly see reload mechanics from CR in vanilla. Number of bullets in magazines, and heat level of laser weapons.  Plus new loadout but in changed more friendly version. With CR or Tools for haul having grenades make sense. But this is discussion for other topic.

Now I know why NIA stopped development of this mod. So many features to handle and every new alpha changed so many things that he needed to be rewrite code. Sisyphean labours.

[Yoso]

Awesome to see this coming back. Thanks skyark!

You should totally just add this to the base game.

Um, no.

The fixes to collision are nice and should be looked at adding to vanilla.

Adding in the totally overpowered weapons in CR? hell no. 1 man with an incendiary launcher can solo sieges or ship parts.
Having a hand held, accurate, AoE weapon that can kill a centipede in 3-4 shots is just ridiculous.

Adding in the ridiculously deadly combat that kills people in 1 burst? Even more hell no.
Once you get get a few good guns, you can fend off stupidly large raids with them. More deadly guns favour the defender, which is already easy enough as it is. Equally, any mistake or lack of micro results in dead colonists left and right. This makes actually fighting with your guys even more risky for new players, forcing newbies to rely even more on turrets than they already do.

Adding in gun nut fetishist levels of weapon types and ammunition? Hell no.
Rockets are the only single use item in vanilla for good reason. For every person that likes the ammo, I suspect there are a dozen that do not.
And once you have machining up, making ammo is available and just becomes a micromanagement. At least the mod has auto equip....

But by the looks, this 'update' is just a straight copy judging by the huge numbers of things that are now broken. I only played for 10 days and noticed an FPS drop on speed 3. Log showed an error every tick lagging the game with just 4 people and no enemies on the map, so god knows how bad it gets later on.

Uninstalled, hopefully this will be fixed back to a playable level, as it has some interesting features behind all its broken mechanics and weapons.

Did you have turrets built when you got the repeating error? I had some turrets set up and started getting a traverse parms error evert tick until I removed them.

[Britnoth]

It doesn't need to be forced, just an option. But if it's maintained by one of the developers of the game, we never have to worry about it completely breaking on a new version. But, yes this does make fighting risky, which is the fun part. You don't need to resort to giant killboxes filled with automatic turrets either, which is pretty great.

Also uh, making ammo isn't micro management, you do know you can automate this stuff right?

Pretty sure this is not going to happen. Tynan already stated that he is not going to be supporting on/off options for different engine mechanics. He stated that 75% of his time is maintaining the existing game not adding new features. Imagine what it would be having to code and balance two entirely different combat engines.

Instead, we have a modding community and now the scenario system.

Second, yes I am well aware of CR's addition to the assign tab. Once you have ammo crafting set up and enough guns, it is no longer a real (tactical) concern. Which is half the reason why I wouldn't like it in the base game: once you get machining researched and some bills set up, all it does is have pawns walking around a lot more reequipping themselves rather than doing proper work.

Hell, once you have a few pirate raids, you don't even need machining to replace ammo used.

Perhaps 'Micromanagement' is the wrong word here - what I mean to say is, it adds busywork to the pawns themselves from using the autoequip weapons and ammo, while also adding another layer of setup to the player that is a source of making stupid mistakes that screw you over - ie wrong ammo type, that are from the level of micro in the game instead of a gameplay driven threat.

It does not add anything to the game outside low ammunition type weapons. Which is what we have the one use rocket weapons for in vanilla.

Finally: If you want the game to not be filled with killboxes, stop filling your game with killboxes. The choice is yours.

I think there are more useful additions then just the collision changes like the inventory and loadout systems which would imo be good changes even with vanilla mechanics. I personally think ammo adds a lot to the survival feel of the game but if it were to become a vanilla system it would most likely be simplified somewhat. That said there are already some really micromanagy mechanics in vanilla like passive clothing decay which is WAY more annoying then ammo in this mod.

The combat I could see going either way but the vanilla system definitely feels like it devolves into tower defense way more which is a big negative for me. I do think some of the concepts in CR combat could be integrated into vanilla in a way that would improve the experience and make the game less forced into kill boxes in the late map stages.

Inventory from CR totally breaks vanilla game balance on its own by allowing you to carry multiple weapons for whichever situation you need them for.

Long range? Sniper rifle. Short range? PDW/SMG. Melee attacker? Swap to your trusty plasteel knife. This removes choice and makes the game less interesting. This was all discussed in the threads asking for a secondary weapon to carry.

Passive clothing decay is not in the least bit micromanagement. Set a min clothing quality of 50% and they will swap out their clothes for something else when it falls below that.

On that point, removing ammo and multiple weapon carry from CRs inventory changes just leaves you with autoequiping a gun. That could be added to the vanilla apparel assign tab I guess. But not strictly needed. Having players have to think about what gun to give someone is the one item you actually need to micro in the game.

Did you have turrets built when you got the repeating error? I had some turrets set up and started getting a traverse parms error evert tick until I removed them.

No, I never play with turrets outside of speed runs to space. All I had was the conventional starting rifle, pistol and knife and a couple guns dropped by a raid. It was only day 10.

Error every tick was : 'Cannot cast from source type to destination type' which is the same error I got when SK updated Pawn State Icons I think.... ironically enough.

[Vek17]

Passive clothing decay is not in the least bit micromanagement. Set a min clothing quality of 50% and they will swap out their clothes for something else when it falls below that.

That is only true if you want colonists wearing whatever happens to be laying around, trying to manage what they wear like having everyone wear Devilstrand that you make is annoying as hell especially without something like colony manager to keep your crafting automated since you cannot create bills based on specific stockpiles just overall colony inventory.

That said this isn't the place for me to gripe about vanilla woes.

On that point, removing ammo and multiple weapon carry from CRs inventory changes just leaves you with autoequiping a gun. That could be added to the vanilla apparel assign tab I guess. But not strictly needed. Having players have to think about what gun to give someone is the one item you actually need to micro in the game.

Generally in Vanilla this just means I give everyone assault rifles because it is the most general purpose high performing weapon, swap to grenades if getting raided though a choke maybe but there is little to no thought in loadouts in vanilla.

[Boston]

1) The one thing I like most about Combat Realism is that, with CR installed, people actually die when shot. Imagine that?

No more raiders tanking multiple rifle rounds to the torso, sprinting across an open field with their hearts and lungs blasted out.
No more animals tanking multiple arrows, requiring my tribal hunters to spend literal hours of in-game time sitting there, launching arrows into a downed animal in order to kill it.

2) "Allowing only one weapon is balanced"!

What? I don't think I have ever heard about someone in real life that, when engaged in close combat, dropped their firearm and proceeded to Mike Tyson it up. No, in real life, we have these sorts of things: holsters, shoulder straps, knife sheaths, etc.

Things specifically designed to let us carry more than one tool at once. Not having them is asinine. Forcing pawns to fistfight someone when they get too close is laughable.

If the inventory system works, and it does, then why shouldn't it be introduced into the base game?

I could deal with not having the ammo system implemented (that is, a static supply that can run out. Having specific magazine sizes is nice, as well as reloading), but the lethality of weapons and the inventory system, in my opinion, needs to be implemented. Playing without it is difficult. Before it was updated, I played a colony and I had a raider tank 5 different connecting rifle shots ( 2 in the torso, one in the head, one in the arm and one in the leg), all over the body, and she managed to charge in and shank my colonist, then mentally break and wander around for half a day before dying of blood loss.

Nonsense. Absolute fucking nonsense. I force-quit the game in disgust




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[AseaHeru]

 The default combat system, for me basically boils down to "if brawler, sword+personal shield. Else AR" and gratuitous use of kill boxes or just turrets everywhere. Part of this is due to the amazingly short ranges of most weapons (not being able to shoot something 100 tiles away with something that was designed to kill two kilometers away is just annoying), the amazing ability to take three shots to the head and live of most pawns, and the fact that you can build turrets. Just the last one alone drives me to this mod. Oh, and ofcourse there is the "I have rifle! Lets hit dude with fists instead of with one end of it!" thing. This does exist with CR, but its far, far easier to deal with.

In fact, just the amazing ability of anyone to live through kill shots is what has basically made the game unplayable to me without this mod. Well, that and the amazing utility of shotguns.

[jefferyharrell]

1) The one thing I like most about Combat Realism is that, with CR installed, people actually die when shot.

That's what makes it worth the price of admission for me, too. I like it when gun fights are terrifying. I like the fact that a single stray bullet can radically change the entire game. I was just playing a little last night with CR and a whole set of other mods (despite the occasional glitch) and my best shooter, a retired soldier who was the sort of big guy of few words who was the universally loved protector of my camp, took a pistol wound to the spine. I was on the edge of my seat, unsure whether he'd ever walk again.

I love the fact that this mod makes guns scary. Playing without it is much less fun to me.

Yes, there are absolutely balance issues. When a 72-year-old grandmother with dementia and a bad back can execute a thrumbo with a 12-gauge loaded with buckshot, that's a balance issue. But overall I think CR is an improvement on the vanilla game's gun combat, while still remaining very much imperfect (even absent the bugs).

As for the other stuff, somebody said recently, I can't remember where, that the vanilla game too easily devolves into tower defense. I agree very much with that sentiment. Not to be overly critical of the vanilla game; it's obviously really good. But if we're being honest, in the absence of CR I find the player-versus-opponent part of the game a lot less interesting, personally, than the player-versus-environment part of the game.

[OverlordZeni]

I've been enjoying the hell out of this mod in all of its insanely buggy glory, thank you very much for the update, skyarkhangel!

[Britnoth]

Seems this degenerated into

No, in real life, we have these sorts of things:

I don't care. This is a game.

If you want realism, go play some first person shooter from some AAA publisher.

Or this mod (when fixed).

Stop trying to impose you view that all games need to be so damn super realistic on the rest of us. It is getting really old.

[Maviaux]

Seems this degenerated into

No, in real life, we have these sorts of things:

I don't care. This is a game.

If you want realism, go play some first person shooter from some AAA publisher.

Or this mod (when fixed).

Stop trying to impose you view that all games need to be so damn super realistic on the rest of us. It is getting really old.

Seems like you might be posting in the wrong thread, given your qualms. Everyone else here thoroughly enjoys the mod soooooo...

[Britnoth]

Seems like you might be posting in the wrong thread, given your qualms. Everyone else here thoroughly enjoys the mod soooooo...

Exactly. this is the CR thread, not the suggest mods to go into vanilla game thread. Otherwise I'd not have replied to it.