Penalty for underground base

[Produno]

I agree its balanced enough. You dont wanna make too difficult, people still wanna have fun and possibly want the feeling of being secure.

Once all the other balance issues are sorted and other conceps or modules intergrated you wont be wanting the extra difficulty your mentioning.

[ShadowDragon8685]

I feel like this went a little over my head. Mind stating the point you're trying to make in simpler terms for my inferior intellect to understand?

Exactly what is hard to understand about it?

Even without any help from raiders whatsoever, your walls explode and set fire to everything nearby when your batteries discharge through them, because evidently surge protectors and fuses are a lost technology in the far-flung spacefaring future.

To say nothing of the fact that you evidently soak the walls in diesel fuel and kerosene, given how readily they catch fire at the slightest provocation.

So would you rather surround yourself with walls that, at any time and for no apparent reason, blow up like a goddamn incendiary grenade, or would you rather live in a dwelling made of nice, non-flammable, non-explosive stone? Because frankly, I wouldn't want to live in an inflammable death trap.

[maxthebeast11]

I feel like this went a little over my head. Mind stating the point you're trying to make in simpler terms for my inferior intellect to understand?

Exactly what is hard to understand about it?

Even without any help from raiders whatsoever, your walls explode and set fire to everything nearby when your batteries discharge through them, because evidently surge protectors and fuses are a lost technology in the far-flung spacefaring future.

To say nothing of the fact that you evidently soak the walls in diesel fuel and kerosene, given how readily they catch fire at the slightest provocation.

So would you rather surround yourself with walls that, at any time and for no apparent reason, blow up like a goddamn incendiary grenade, or would you rather live in a dwelling made of nice, non-flammable, non-explosive stone? Because frankly, I wouldn't want to live in an inflammable death trap.

I've simply never had such a thing happen to me as you are describing. This is why I was confused at your post.

On this point, however. I do find it queer that automated turrets and nutrient paste dispensers are not out of reach of the colonists, yet the means to manage the flow of electrical current is.

[Galileus]

On this point, however. I do find it queer that automated turrets and nutrient paste dispensers are not out of reach of the colonists, yet the means to manage the flow of electrical current is.

Video game logic.

[ShadowDragon8685]

I've simply never had such a thing happen to me as you are describing. This is why I was confused at your post.

Build a huge battery farm and wait. Sooner or later, unless you're playing Cassandra .250 with a high population (IE, events stop happening,) one of your walls will explode and set fire to everything. I had that happen to me in my .254b base, my living quarters got set aflame, and so did some of the colonists who went to put it out. It was pretty nasty, and I'm just glad I still had some rock walls to contain the spread of fire!

On this point, however. I do find it queer that automated turrets and nutrient paste dispensers are not out of reach of the colonists, yet the means to manage the flow of electrical current is.

You oughta be able to build this. Of course, for it to matter, you'd need to like, track where the power is going and have the high-draw places be the places that need them. That, or just install them outside of the batteries.

[Workload]

Guys pretty sure Tynan wanted this game somewhat hard and for you to lose at some point. That's why there's more then 1 mode if its too hard play the chill or peace one.
Later when the game is finished there will be many new events so you won't get the crop sickness and walls blowing up as much. The game logic can only hit you with so many events at once, at least on normal. So we are trying to think of new events that Tynan can make easily.
That's why this is a suggestion forum right?

[todofwar]

Yes, and if your walls were prone to exploding and bursting into flame every thirty days, you wouldn't bloody well surround yourself with them, would you?

precisely my point, building above ground as is forces you to constantly rebuild and redesign your base while tunneling gives no challenges whatsoever. Either walls should be made more reliable so you aren't forced to tunnel, or there should be something to force you out of the tunnels and into the light.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Yes, and if your walls were prone to exploding and bursting into flame every thirty days, you wouldn't bloody well surround yourself with them, would you?

precisely my point, building above ground as is forces you to constantly rebuild and redesign your base while tunneling gives no challenges whatsoever. Either walls should be made more reliable so you aren't forced to tunnel, or there should be something to force you out of the tunnels and into the light.

Force the player to do something stupid because the logical alternative has been nerfed to be really bloody stupid is not good game design.

[todofwar]

This is supposed to be a difficult game. I don't think there should ever be a catch all scenario. Right now the outdoor play is a bit better in that it rewards you for taking the time to cut plants, spread out your base, and locate batteries in there own building with nothing but powerlines connecting them to the rest. Better base design does something more than just look pretty. But when you start tunneling it goes out the window, you just get nice comfy holes and it gets way too easy.

[mumblemumble]

Assuming you have less walls built, and only main "wire" walls, you will have to deal with ugly environments, darkness, needing to most likely import power into the cave, and other issues. And honestly, earthquakes would effect outdoors as well, walls wouldn't magically withstand it more being outside. And fires still spread in caves as long as you are wiring power anyway, so there's no real REASON to nerf it.

Just face it, building into a mountainside is an effective strategy, doesn't mean it NEEDS a nerf, or at very least not something as catastrophic like an earthquake.

[todofwar]

I'm not saying nerf it at all, I like digging a nice mine. I just feel it's an overpowered mechanic as it stands, while building outside leads to catastrophe. I was just saying there should be something to counteract the fact that you have perfect defense on all sides and you don't really have to worry about fire with minimal safeguards at the entrance. Either that, or maybe a reward for toughing it out in the fire prone outdoors.

[Kender]

I was just thinking currently there is a huge disadvantage (fire) to building above ground but no real disadvantage to digging underground. I suggest adding in "earthquake" events that have a possibility of causing cave ins, but outdoor buildings are less affected. Just a way to balance things out.

Just wondering, shouldn't the 'a huge disadvantage (fire) to building above ground' be the real problem rather than 'no real disadvantage to digging underground'?

[Wopian]

Earthquakes would damage above ground buildings slighly more than underground bases though.

[todofwar]

I was just thinking currently there is a huge disadvantage (fire) to building above ground but no real disadvantage to digging underground. I suggest adding in "earthquake" events that have a possibility of causing cave ins, but outdoor buildings are less affected. Just a way to balance things out.

Just wondering, shouldn't the 'a huge disadvantage (fire) to building above ground' be the real problem rather than 'no real disadvantage to digging underground'?

I was going for making the game harder rather than easier, but yes that is also possible. I personally like calamities being responsible for my colony dying rather than raider attacks.

Wopian: I know, I was just spitballing some kind of catastrophe that reasonably hits underground more, not necessarily realistic. Cave ins/earthquakes were the first things that came to mind.

[Kender]

I was going for making the game harder rather than easier, but yes that is also possible.

Then I suggest adding tornado/sandstorm to the game too, to make it even harder.