Penalty for underground base

[todofwar]

I was going for making the game harder rather than easier, but yes that is also possible.

Then I suggest adding tornado/sandstorm to the game too, to make it even harder.

That just makes building outside even worse, outdoor bases are hard enough as is, it's the mines that need balancing out.

[Kender]

That just makes building outside even worse, outdoor bases are hard enough as is, it's the mines that need balancing out.

Yes, that's the point, make it harder.
to balance it out, I suggest lava spill inside mountain next, or even volcano eruption. : p

[mumblemumble]

I don't even understand how the underground has the advantage you claim, being underground does NOT magically stop fire at all. if so many things were put underground, people simply wouldn't go there. Being underground only gives the advantage of saving money on making walls, pretty much, and wherever you put wires / anything, there's a risk for fire.

Really, people should wait till the game is fleshed out before demanding balancing, the kick-starter JUST got finished, and water / sprinkler systems were suggested among other things, so this "clear advantage" might not even last.

[todofwar]

I don't even understand how the underground has the advantage you claim, being underground does NOT magically stop fire at all. if so many things were put underground, people simply wouldn't go there. Being underground only gives the advantage of saving money on making walls, pretty much, and wherever you put wires / anything, there's a risk for fire.

Really, people should wait till the game is fleshed out before demanding balancing, the kick-starter JUST got finished, and water / sprinkler systems were suggested among other things, so this "clear advantage" might not even last.

True, I guess I wanted to point out the balance issue. Right now I've figured out I can just add on a three tile thick area of tile around my outdoor structures, protects them from fires unless the fire is started in the building itself

[mumblemumble]

Yeah, I agree that right NOW its a balance issue, but I think that its a better idea to wait for the game to flesh out FIRST before fixing this "balance" issue. Since the odds of new additions changing the current balance is already pretty damn high.

[Galileus]

Yeah, I agree that right NOW its a balance issue, but I think that its a better idea to wait for the game to flesh out FIRST before fixing this "balance" issue. Since the odds of new additions changing the current balance is already pretty damn high.

Agreed on that. There will be more events and some of them may be added with underground in mind - it will come naturally in the process. Rushing the process in this case wouldn't do too much good - the balance of events as a whole can be done while adding said events. It should be easier to address all the possibilities naturally that way.

[Enjou]

Here's a simple solution that doesn't overly punish the player - if you place a bedroom underground, then that bedroom gets the 'hideous environment' penalty if the player hasn't built in proper walls. This will make the player want to spend some extra metal in exchange for the safety that an underground base offers.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Here's a simple solution that doesn't overly punish the player - if you place a bedroom underground, then that bedroom gets the 'hideous environment' penalty if the player hasn't built in proper walls. This will make the player want to spend some extra metal in exchange for the safety that an underground base offers.

Better option: Not only that, but let player smooth rough-hewn stone metal walls into smoothed stone walls that do not grant the hideousness penalty.

And then engrave pictures upon them to make them actually attractive.

Engraved on the wall is an exceptionally designed image of a muffalo by Cummings, Settler. The muffalo is in the air, spread-eagled. Engraved on the wall is an image of an explosive charge being placed by Cummings, Settler. Cummings is giggling to herself. This image related to the explosive death of a muffalo during the raider attack of Day 197.

[nomadseifer]

I'll just go ahead and state the obvious.  If you want the underground option to be more challenging, just make it more realistic in the most basic way:  make it MUCH slower to mine through rock.  Then getting your 20 colonists to all have 5x5 rooms underground would be a real feat.  It would force the player to create a small 'safe room' underground to hideaway if things get bad but most of the base would be out in then open, and maybe rebuilding would be a more common occurrence. 

Also, smooth stone should be a pre-req for the placement of any other tile/carpet.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Also, smooth stone should be a pre-req for the placement of any other tile/carpet.

I do that anyway, to whore up my colonists' construction skills and make them faster in transit to the mines.

[lt_halle]

There's a law in game design that states that if there is one solution to a problem that is always available to the player that is clearly superior to the rest (i.e. not limited by rare resources), the player will always choose that solution to solve the problem. If your game falls into this category, chances are it's a bad game, because most games that fall into this category are games in which not much thought was put in. Rimworld is an exception - it is still a good game despite this, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed somehow. I think, rather than making building underground super-dangerous (I'd rather deal with fires than insta-killing cave ins), I suggest we make building above ground a sort of high-risk high-reward scenario. You're more vulnerable to raiders and fire, but you can get great rewards. I'd say that we should make hydroponics more inefficient and above-ground farms more efficient so that you can get more food should you choose an outside life. Likewise, we ought to include happiness boosters. "Nature is beautiful" kind of things that give colonists happiness if they spend enough time outdoors rather than inside a dingy old cavern.

[maxthebeast11]

There's a law in game design that states that if there is one solution to a problem that is always available to the player that is clearly superior to the rest (i.e. not limited by rare resources), the player will always choose that solution to solve the problem. If your game falls into this category, chances are it's a bad game, because most games that fall into this category are games in which not much thought was put in. Rimworld is an exception - it is still a good game despite this, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed somehow. I think, rather than making building underground super-dangerous (I'd rather deal with fires than insta-killing cave ins), I suggest we make building above ground a sort of high-risk high-reward scenario. You're more vulnerable to raiders and fire, but you can get great rewards. I'd say that we should make hydroponics more inefficient and above-ground farms more efficient so that you can get more food should you choose an outside life. Likewise, we ought to include happiness boosters. "Nature is beautiful" kind of things that give colonists happiness if they spend enough time outdoors rather than inside a dingy old cavern.

Hmm, I wonder if Tynan covers that topic in his book.

[todofwar]

I'll just go ahead and state the obvious.  If you want the underground option to be more challenging, just make it more realistic in the most basic way:  make it MUCH slower to mine through rock.  Then getting your 20 colonists to all have 5x5 rooms underground would be a real feat.  It would force the player to create a small 'safe room' underground to hideaway if things get bad but most of the base would be out in then open, and maybe rebuilding would be a more common occurrence. 

Also, smooth stone should be a pre-req for the placement of any other tile/carpet.

Slow tunneling actually sounds like a good option. It takes a long time to build the kind of fully self sufficient base you could quickly get with building above ground. 

[Wopian]

There's a law in game design that states that if there is one solution to a problem that is always available to the player that is clearly superior to the rest (i.e. not limited by rare resources), the player will always choose that solution to solve the problem. If your game falls into this category, chances are it's a bad game, because most games that fall into this category are games in which not much thought was put in. Rimworld is an exception - it is still a good game despite this, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed somehow. I think, rather than making building underground super-dangerous (I'd rather deal with fires than insta-killing cave ins), I suggest we make building above ground a sort of high-risk high-reward scenario. You're more vulnerable to raiders and fire, but you can get great rewards. I'd say that we should make hydroponics more inefficient and above-ground farms more efficient so that you can get more food should you choose an outside life. Likewise, we ought to include happiness boosters. "Nature is beautiful" kind of things that give colonists happiness if they spend enough time outdoors rather than inside a dingy old cavern.

Hmm, I wonder if Tynan covers that topic in his book.

Instead of making hydroponics less effiecient, if oxygen is re-added air cleanliness affects plant growth. above ground will have fresher air and caves will have stale / low oxygen so you would have to invest in air purifyers (or however you spell it)

[Morrigi]

There's a law in game design that states that if there is one solution to a problem that is always available to the player that is clearly superior to the rest (i.e. not limited by rare resources), the player will always choose that solution to solve the problem. If your game falls into this category, chances are it's a bad game, because most games that fall into this category are games in which not much thought was put in. Rimworld is an exception - it is still a good game despite this, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed somehow. I think, rather than making building underground super-dangerous (I'd rather deal with fires than insta-killing cave ins), I suggest we make building above ground a sort of high-risk high-reward scenario. You're more vulnerable to raiders and fire, but you can get great rewards. I'd say that we should make hydroponics more inefficient and above-ground farms more efficient so that you can get more food should you choose an outside life. Likewise, we ought to include happiness boosters. "Nature is beautiful" kind of things that give colonists happiness if they spend enough time outdoors rather than inside a dingy old cavern.

Hmm, I wonder if Tynan covers that topic in his book.

Instead of making hydroponics less effiecient, if oxygen is re-added air cleanliness affects plant growth. above ground will have fresher air and caves will have stale / low oxygen so you would have to invest in air purifyers (or however you spell it)

That would be cool. More atmospheric effects in general would be a good addition, I think.