'Outside' colony vs 'Mountain' colony

[Feniks]

the downside to killbox and mountain turtle is for several reasons

1) usually these require turrets, thus need more power, thus need more metallic resources.
2) a solarflare will indefinately screw over not only the kill-box but the entire colony far more then an outside, due to again relying on turrets and hydroponics and sun lamp for food.
3) droppods and gathering supplies will be absolute hell for killbox strategies. not as much as outside but it impacts differently.
5) mechanoids give no feels about your killbox/chokepoint.
6)explosive users love your chokepoint.
7)your chokepoint will be harder to escape from if insanity breaks through, which is easie compared to outside

I think you got quite a few things wrong.
1) I agree but metal is replaceable colonist are not it is much easier to get extra 2000 metal than extra 10 colonist.
2) Solar flair is a pain but not as bad as you may think. First of all you must plan things well if you get enough food then you have emergency stock pile that should last you for 2-3 days. So even if hydroponics die out you have enough to get you by while you replant and grow/ Also yes turret won't work but you can build killbox with access for both turrets and colonist. It will be less effective without turrets but will still provide you with some sort of defence better than outside colony can ever give you.
3)Why exactly? You can have back door exit that bypasses killbox and just wall it of when assault comes.
5) They die the same way as raiders. In killbox they get stunned a lot with all the turrets shooting at them so effectively most of the time they don't get to even take a shot.
6) You get chock point all wrong. Chock point is to choke them not us. In the chock point you have raiders coming one by one while you are spread around for maximum shooting angle.
7) As above colonist are not passing through choke point only raiders colonist stay in big open area with cover shooting at raiders coming out of chock point. Raiders will break much faster than colonist due to "witnessed ally death" penalty being higher than "witness stranger death".

[keylocke]

the downside to killbox and mountain turtle is for several reasons

1) usually these require turrets, thus need more power, thus need more metallic resources.
2) a solarflare will indefinately screw over not only the kill-box but the entire colony far more then an outside, due to again relying on turrets and hydroponics and sun lamp for food.
3) droppods and gathering supplies will be absolute hell for killbox strategies. not as much as outside but it impacts differently.
5) mechanoids give no feels about your killbox/chokepoint.
6)explosive users love your chokepoint.
7)your chokepoint will be harder to escape from if insanity breaks through, which is easie compared to outside

I think you got quite a few things wrong.
1) I agree but metal is replaceable colonist are not it is much easier to get extra 2000 metal than extra 10 colonist.
2) Solar flair is a pain but not as bad as you may think. First of all you must plan things well if you get enough food then you have emergency stock pile that should last you for 2-3 days. So even if hydroponics die out you have enough to get you by while you replant and grow/ Also yes turret won't work but you can build killbox with access for both turrets and colonist. It will be less effective without turrets but will still provide you with some sort of defence better than outside colony can ever give you.
3)Why exactly? You can have back door exit that bypasses killbox and just wall it of when assault comes.
5) They die the same way as raiders. In killbox they get stunned a lot with all the turrets shooting at them so effectively most of the time they don't get to even take a shot.
6) You get chock point all wrong. Chock point is to choke them not us. In the chock point you have raiders coming one by one while you are spread around for maximum shooting angle.
7) As above colonist are not passing through choke point only raiders colonist stay in big open area with cover shooting at raiders coming out of chock point. Raiders will break much faster than colonist due to "witnessed ally death" penalty being higher than "witness stranger death".

agreed in all points of this.

also, as some other dude pointed out. you can do the same turtle mechanics on an "outside" colony by making thick stone walls. the only drawback is that it would take much longer to do so, than just mining rooms inside of mountains.

[stefanstr]

also, as some other dude pointed out. you can do the same turtle mechanics on an "outside" colony by making thick stone walls. the only drawback is that it would take much longer to do so, than just mining rooms inside of mountains.

This is not entirely true... Overhead mountain protects you from mortars. Thick stone walls outside don’t.

I think that digging into the mountain is seriously overpowered at the moment. Making it more difficult to dig would make the game more realistic (we are NOT playing with dwarves, after all) and it would be easier to provide a challenge without sending 10000 pawns our way.

[nils]

I like cave colonies now, but dislike that the normal rock walls do not conduct power. So I end up lining all rooms with metal walls anyway....

[Feniks]

also, as some other dude pointed out. you can do the same turtle mechanics on an "outside" colony by making thick stone walls. the only drawback is that it would take much longer to do so, than just mining rooms inside of mountains.

As to digging being OP I agree but with waves outnumbering you 5:1 and more at later stages of a game it is the only tactic that works. It's not even mortars or raids that is a problem but drop of 150 raiders in the middle of your base is game over.

I think if there was someway to prevent drops inside your base people would build outside more.

@nils in alpha 7 stone wall will be able to conduct power.
This is not entirely true... Overhead mountain protects you from mortars. Thick stone walls outside don�t.

I think that digging into the mountain is seriously overpowered at the moment. Making it more difficult to dig would make the game more realistic (we are NOT playing with dwarves, after all) and it would be easier to provide a challenge without sending 10000 pawns our way.

[milon]

@Feniks, stone wall that you build will be able to conduct power, yes, but I doubt the rock you mine will be able to.

@nils, that seems like a waste of space and materials and time. Why not just run power conduits instead?

[Matthiasagreen]

@Feniks, stone wall that you build will be able to conduct power, yes, but I doubt the rock you mine will be able to.

@nils, that seems like a waste of space and materials and time. Why not just run power conduits instead?

I still build walls inside my mountain bases. It is nicer looking, is more efficient at getting power around than conduits and I never worry about the ugly environment. It takes a bit longer but is so worth it in my opinion. Just because they live in caves, doesn't mean they have to live like cavemen.

[Feniks]

how is wall more efficient than power-line? Power-line is much cheaper. I tend to power-lines in most of my industrial structures and only one metal wall in bedrooms for apart of that it is just wasted metal.

[Matthiasagreen]

I guess efficient wasn't the correct word. When I build walls (which can be wood by the way) I know that no matter where I need to place something in my base, it will have a direct connection to my power source. I don't need to worry about whether or not it is close enough to a conduit and if I need to make more. It is also a more organized system, which is really my main reason. It looks cleaner to me.

[Neurotoxin]

I guess efficient wasn't the correct word. When I build walls (which can be wood by the way) I know that no matter where I need to place something in my base, it will have a direct connection to my power source. I don't need to worry about whether or not it is close enough to a conduit and if I need to make more. It is also a more organized system, which is really my main reason. It looks cleaner to me.

In all seriousness I typically use walls as well. At some point in the game I have more metal than I need (I never really try to "escape") but early when you're choked for metal, conduits save you a lot of headache.

[Feniks]

I agree I run a hybrid of walls and conduits. Some places I have conduits running to provide power and it doesn't bother me usually my kitchen growing areas are one of them. Then in other places I have walls. But usually even with walls I tend to have 1 metal wall and rest rock to save on metal.

[keylocke]

This is not entirely true... Overhead mountain protects you from mortars. Thick stone walls outside don�t.

i kinda agree with this, but since you still need "no roofs" for your trading areas, your solar panels, your mortars, and your outdoor tree/flower growing zones, you still have have vulnerable points exposed, which tends to get damaged and needs repair during a siege.

but i agree that yes, you get more protection when bunking under a mountain, but most times you still don't go unscathed, regardless.

this is why i usually just trade blows with enemy mortars against 10 of my mortars manned by my best gunners, which tends to finish the enemy siege quickly enough that the enemy's hit/miss ratio becomes a bit of a moot point in the long run.

i attack them with several heavy mortar barrage, the enemy mortar blows with plenty of enemy casualties, the enemy decides to charge in, they get mowed down by my turrets, rinse and repeat.

i do the same strategy for both "under the mountain" base or on my "open field" base.
the mountain base is much easier to set up during the early stages, but in the late stages of the game, it hardly seems to matter.

[RemingtonRyder]

Does Shooting skill affect mortar accuracy then?

[stefanstr]

Does Shooting skill affect mortar accuracy then?

I don’t think it does.

[Goo Poni]

Does Shooting skill affect mortar accuracy then?

It probably does, but I'm pretty sure mortars have a forced miss radius similar to miniguns. A guy with 20 in shooting spraying at dirt directly in front of him with a minigun will still miss like 2/3rds their shots.