I think Rimworld is tired of being compared to Prison Architect and Dwarf Fortress, so from now on I think it's better to compare it to Darkest Dungeon.
Aka, everything was nerfed.
I cant decipher what you're sobbing about.
Thanks for the attempt. <3
Armor was certainly not nerfed.
As someone who played DD a lot before and after 1.0...
...wat?
Oh no, gaem is hard :( what cna we posibal do :((((
I crie everi tiem.
Seriously, if you really thought all the broken strats will stay forever, you are kind of silly. Try understanding what was done and why, instead of complaining about stuff getting nerfed.
RimWorld is about making stories. The storytelling part doesn't suffer because of nerfs, but it does mean that the stories will now tend to be a bit more grim and dark, occasionally with moments of pure awesome sprinkled in there. :D
Seriously, just play it and figure out some new strategies. Mine, in Naked Brutality, is to be completely unashamed in throwing down wooden deadfall traps. Which is what a lone person trying to survive with limited resources would do, I think.
The game got easier, but the difficulties were scaled up to compensate. Extreme is now Randy Extreme, Hard is now Extreme, and Medium is for wimps like myself.
Quote from: MarvinKosh on July 06, 2018, 02:42:34 PM
Seriously, just play it and figure out some new strategies. Mine, in Naked Brutality, is to be completely unashamed in throwing down wooden deadfall traps.
Make sure you research that new lovely learn to plant a tree tech.
Quote from: dragonalumni on July 06, 2018, 11:36:11 AM
I think Rimworld is tired of being compared to Prison Architect and Dwarf Fortress, so from now on I think it's better to compare it to Darkest Dungeon.
Aka, everything was nerfed.
Uhhhh what?
Darkest dungeon let's you control 4 heroes and easy missions are easy for level 0 or 1 heroes until it gets harder and harder missions take over easier ones and level 4 heroes would refuse to go in easy missions to help out newbie or fresh recruited heroes unless in curtain events which you can loose a good hero permanently.
Why not compare it to the sims series instead? ;)
Both games have you building Houses / Rooms and Neighborhoods / Colonies including controlling individuals people to perform curtain actions.
Though like spanking a random sim to create a nemesis compared to hitting a pawn that's in a mental daze because he has a plague.
Etc.
The main thing that screws you over in DD is a combination of poor planning/inexperience and RnG. Rimworld is, and has always been, the same. I don't see how anything changed.
Quote from: cultist on July 07, 2018, 06:52:58 AM
The main thing that screws you over in DD is a combination of poor planning/inexperience and RnG. Rimworld is, and has always been, the same. I don't see how anything changed.
Yea.
I almost lost a good plague doctor in that game in a level 6 ruins from a group of spiders because the RNG is being evil.
Unlike in rimworld you could avoid these by putting a wounded pawn out of harms way from a pack of manhunting cobras.
Games that allow me to put someone out of danger of be close an RTS game like warcraft or starcraft. But i think it's more fare to compare rimworld to another game like Sims to control the behavior of the sims to avoid well the girl attacking another girl because of something stupid or to avoid embarrassment to that sim. :P
Atleast in prison architect you could control some personnel mostly emergencies services ones and fully control the armed guards to control the situation if a prison riot jumps in.
I don't understand when people cry about difficulty when it lets you adjust difficulty in so many ways. From story teller to biome. To edit scenario. Also the endless broken mods. Are you upset that he is nerfing broken strategies like boars and kill boxes?
Quote from: ashaffee on July 07, 2018, 01:48:21 PM
"I don't understand when people cry about difficulty"
I'm not crying about difficulty. I'm simply suggesting that rimworld has become more like darkest dungeon (the game that nerfed every fun strategy) than prison archiect (graphically) or dwarf fortress (strategically).
I welcome alternative opinions.
Quote from: dragonalumni on July 07, 2018, 12:01:03 AM
Quote from: MarvinKosh on July 06, 2018, 02:42:34 PM
Seriously, just play it and figure out some new strategies. Mine, in Naked Brutality, is to be completely unashamed in throwing down wooden deadfall traps.
Make sure you research that new lovely learn to plant a tree tech.
I am quite sure traps will be changed or nerfed, too similar to the old cheeses. Little skill or effort required for far too much dmg.
Quote from: dragonalumni on July 07, 2018, 02:54:56 PM
Quote from: ashaffee on July 07, 2018, 01:48:21 PM
"I don't understand when people cry about difficulty"
I'm not crying about difficulty. I'm simply suggesting that rimworld has become more like darkest dungeon (the game that nerfed every fun strategy) than prison archiect (graphically) or dwarf fortress (strategically).
I welcome alternative opinions.
I never thought cheeses were fun. They rarely require you do actually do anything once set up lol. I like to be involved.. Have to actually respond to threats than just release the hounds(100 boars) or go grab a drink while things die in a killbox.
Quote from: Scavenger on July 07, 2018, 08:49:31 PM
Quote from: dragonalumni on July 07, 2018, 02:54:56 PM
Quote from: ashaffee on July 07, 2018, 01:48:21 PM
"I don't understand when people cry about difficulty"
I'm not crying about difficulty. I'm simply suggesting that rimworld has become more like darkest dungeon (the game that nerfed every fun strategy) than prison archiect (graphically) or dwarf fortress (strategically).
I welcome alternative opinions.
I never thought cheeses were fun. They rarely require you do actually do anything once set up lol. I like to be involved.. Have to actually respond to threats than just release the hounds(100 boars) or go grab a drink while things die in a killbox.
But it is how a good strategy works. You should win before combat even starts. If you have done your preparations well, you sit and enjoy the show. Any emergency is either bad planning (you should do better) or bad game design (you have no way to prepare).
Quote from: Oblitus on July 07, 2018, 08:57:24 PM
But it is how a good strategy works. You should win before combat even starts. If you have done your preparations well, you sit and enjoy the show. Any emergency is either bad planning (you should do better) or bad game design (you have no way to prepare).
You articulated perfectly what I had not. Is not Rim world a strategy game are we not supposed to create and use strategies to defeat those would harm us? If as certain elements of the player base suggest, some strategies are no-fun, why not just not use them, why is necessary to hard-code out such options. If for example the only way to play the game is through a single limited scope, most of the sandbox strategy is out the door and all that cool shit that has been coded is useless.
But that is just literally one aspect of the huge nerf patch that RW has become since v16.
A good strategy should win before combat starts, but the same strategy shouldn't win every combat before it starts with near-zero skill on the part of the player in a game mode designed to test skill.
Hard difficulty modes are supposed to require skill. They are skill tests; that's their purpose. If a hard difficulty mode can be defeated with the same easy strategy every time, it's broken.
Medium/easy difficulty modes are much more of a sandbox and permit weird experiments, mistakes, and suboptimal fun actions. That's their purpose. If a medium/easy difficulty mode doesn't permit experimentation and mistakes, it's broken.
Choose the one that's right for you! Criticize them for their given purpose, according to the descriptions in the difficulty select screen.
I think a lot of this comes down to people choosing the wrong difficulty. I'm constantly trying to think of new ways to get people to choose the difficulty the actually want to experience instead of the one they self-identify as in some abstract sense, but it's a struggle. Harder is not better; it's just a different game.
Quote from: Tynan on July 08, 2018, 12:30:45 AM
Medium/easy difficulty modes are much more of a sandbox and permit weird experiments, mistakes, and suboptimal fun actions. That's their purpose. If a medium/easy difficulty mode doesn't permit experimentation and mistakes, it's broken.
Choose the one that's right for you! Criticize them for their given purpose, according to the descriptions in the difficulty select screen.
I think a lot of this comes down to people choosing the wrong difficulty. I'm constantly trying to think of new ways to get people to choose the difficulty the actually want to experience instead of the one they self-identify as in some abstract sense, but it's a struggle. Harder is not better; it's just a different game.
And this is the problem. Medium is not easier than hard. It is just a bit more forgiving since you'll get more time and resources to recover from errors made, but no more than that. Too many game threats have no proper counter strategy. I am tucking the whole base under overhead mountain not because I like being entombed, but because it is the only way to counter bullshit like drop pods on your heads or sapper raids from all directions. I am ignoring caravaning not because I don't like the concept, but because it is horribly dangerous on way too many levels. I am avoiding any kind of direct combat not because I specifically like tower defense, but because good pawns are way too precious, and any combat can end by one-hit death despite any armor.
Some threats can't be defeated without taking damage. That's not the same as saying they have no counter-strategy.
RimWorld is a game you can't win without taking damage along the way. This is by design. If you want a game where you can struggle to find a "perfect run", which is a totally legit game style, you'd have to go to another game. Not every game can do everything and that's okay.
Oblitus I feel like you are playing based on fear of the outcome. I recommend trying your preferred difficulty and trying out caravan missions with save scumming tactics first. I know it feels like the ultimate cheat. But while testing 1.0 everything I think I know changes so often that I use save scumming to learn the game again. There are so many things that are way more forgiving than you realize just by attempting to survive it.
The game requires a bit of new concepts to learn about but once you get the hang of them you won't ever fear anything on medium difficulty. Even though I prefer extreme I've been playing medium/hard and save scumming just to pratice caravaning a lot more because they are so fun and rewarding. Although like you said it is hard to know if you are making the right call by going out ( the updates did help though ).
While on medium I get to make a pretty base along the river with huge 8 x 8 bedrooms. I don't really feel the need to wall off everything but definitely a walled off core is nice (hospitals, food, weapon storage).
Quote from: Tynan on July 08, 2018, 12:54:19 AM
Some threats can't be defeated without taking damage. That's not the same as saying they have no counter-strategy.
RimWorld is a game you can't win without taking damage along the way. This is by design. If you want a game where you can struggle to find a "perfect run", which is a totally legit game style, you'd have to go to another game. Not every game can do everything and that's okay.
Curious, why did you add different storyteller difficults then ?
Special when you can change the difficult ingame.
Oblitus test show that an animal predator mosttimes win against range fighter (I think bear's are even worser then timber wolfs).
But how's about does a pawn pure mellee fighter got a chance against a Raider range fighter too ? Beside some unlucky headshot/legshots (special from sniper rifle).
Quote from: ashaffee on July 08, 2018, 06:07:58 AM
Oblitus I feel like you are playing based on fear of the outcome. I recommend trying your preferred difficulty and trying out caravan missions with save scumming tactics first. I know it feels like the ultimate cheat. But while testing 1.0 everything I think I know changes so often that I use save scumming to learn the game again. There are so many things that are way more forgiving than you realize just by attempting to survive it.
The game requires a bit of new concepts to learn about but once you get the hang of them you won't ever fear anything on medium difficulty. Even though I prefer extreme I've been playing medium/hard and save scumming just to pratice caravaning a lot more because they are so fun and rewarding. Although like you said it is hard to know if you are making the right call by going out ( the updates did help though ).
While on medium I get to make a pretty base along the river with huge 8 x 8 bedrooms. I don't really feel the need to wall off everything but definitely a walled off core is nice (hospitals, food, weapon storage).
I've tried. With vanilla options it does not work for me. I'm not afraid of savescumming, but when you have to do it a lot to beat the RNG... In a typical raid I am outnumbered 1:5 to 1:10. My current setup is relatively safe, but only thanks to killbox and overhead mountain with extremely thick walls. Without them any combat is a mess.
I learned what I learned at university when I talked to people about the problems that arise from different understanding of the same content.
What we and tynan talk about is something that can not be decided until we set a standard.
Tynan says damage is unavoidable.
What does damage mean? Does that mean people die? Or do you say things are destroyed? If a person is injured, how much damage does it say? It can be the damage that all the base facilities are destroyed and more than half the people die. OR Only a few buildings may be at the level of being destroyed.
It is also called cheese. What is the definition of cheese that Tynan thinks? Is every act of fighting on the door a cheese?
Is it even cheese that kites from the point of no damage?
Trap tactics do not cause any damage, so why not fix them?
If you are solving the case without any damage, there is no such strategy already. Because there is no definition of damage. We can't avoid damaging the wall because the enemy is attacked a little.
The answer we are asking for is that someone does not die when we prepare enough to form at that point. And to recover that damage before the next attack.
I see tynan hate cheese for the door. I know tynan think that you think you rely too heavily on the door.
Can i get enough survivability with EMP and sandbag when dealing with a ship? Or is the probability very low?
The same is true of drop attacks. When I play the best through it, it is my standard that I play without killing someone. Is it possible to cover only this standard?
No countermeasure means that there is no way to solve a game without someone dying with a high probability.
I would like to see a topic about the criteria for this separately. When you play best in each event at the extreme difficulty level, how much damage do you think is appropriate?
Winning before combat starts doesn't actually mean that you should be able to AFK the actual battle. By stacking all factors in your favour at all scales, the enemy may be in such a state that victory is assured, but you still have to stick the sword in.