Love the new combat system

[bwebster]

Long time lurker on the forums, I had to make an account here just to say how much I love combat in Alpha 6. Reminds me a lot of DnD, and there are so many emergent stories that can come out of it (such as having to "euthanize" someone who lost a leg). I feel like it is a significant departure from the long, drawn out fights where everyone would unrealistically soak up 4-6 bullets, and I totally welcome that. Whether this was the intended outcome of this system or not, great job Tynan.

[Neurotoxin]

I must agree. I like having tactics play more of a role. Before it was get in better cover to soak more shots, now its use better cover or get capped in 1 or 2 shot(s). A few things may need some tweaking though, I've had a few raiders run away after getting shot in the head. I don't expect every headshot to be an instant kill but getting my jaw blown off is probably going to floor me at least, probably even knock me unconscious.

[mikeash]

Agreed, the combat is a whole new game, and it's great.

[Merry76]

I hate it with a passion. Its just turning up the RNG to a ridiculous degree - the same combat can go either way with a few lucky shots... Colonists surviving the fight but in a complete "useless" state because of crippling effects, or even dying because they cant be treated sufficiently. For me, this alpha version is by far the worst. Its not beyond salvage, but it lacks the stuff that makes it fun to play.

I have a colonist that is in perpetual pain because he hurt/scared his left thumb somehow in the landing (he was in the original 3) and either I didnt treat him well enough or too late (new system and all that). It basically means he has 3% permanent HP loss, and is a cripple when it comes to working. Because of a thumb that will never heal.

And dont come at me with "its more realistic this way" - it isnt. I had a guy getting a cracked jaw from a Science-damned squirrel. A squirrel cracking a jaw? Come on! Also, even if its more realistic when it comes to gunshots: realistic isnt always more fun.

TBH, the wounding system desperately needs help. Most severe wounds should heal out (albeit very slowly) over time, or there should be a replacement for limbs (cybertronics/augmetics/transplants).
Pain should go away after a fight and not persist if a body part is scarred up. The reason is that scar tissue isnt really able to feel pain. It should just be called "permanent damage" - because thats what it is.
There also should be a limit on what certains weapons can do: squirrels that crack your jaw or stones that shoot off your legs are neither fun nor realistic - just plain dumb. If a squirrel downs a man (however that should happen), he should die of gangrene later on or a savaged jugular (maybe after he went unconscious?).

Getting someone permanently injured really isnt helping the game. Most players will just give them a oneway trip to the slave trader, and replace it with a fresh slave from the very same trader (its what many DF and Gnomoria players do - cull the injured, get new recruits).

[HatesYourFace]

I hate it with a passion. Its just turning up the RNG to a ridiculous degree - the same combat can go either way with a few lucky shots... Colonists surviving the fight but in a complete "useless" state because of crippling effects, or even dying because they cant be treated sufficiently. For me, this alpha version is by far the worst. Its not beyond salvage, but it lacks the stuff that makes it fun to play.

I have a colonist that is in perpetual pain because he hurt/scared his left thumb somehow in the landing (he was in the original 3) and either I didnt treat him well enough or too late (new system and all that). It basically means he has 3% permanent HP loss, and is a cripple when it comes to working. Because of a thumb that will never heal.

And dont come at me with "its more realistic this way" - it isnt. I had a guy getting a cracked jaw from a Science-damned squirrel. A squirrel cracking a jaw? Come on! Also, even if its more realistic when it comes to gunshots: realistic isnt always more fun.

TBH, the wounding system desperately needs help. Most severe wounds should heal out (albeit very slowly) over time, or there should be a replacement for limbs (cybertronics/augmetics/transplants).
Pain should go away after a fight and not persist if a body part is scarred up. The reason is that scar tissue isnt really able to feel pain. It should just be called "permanent damage" - because thats what it is.
There also should be a limit on what certains weapons can do: squirrels that crack your jaw or stones that shoot off your legs are neither fun nor realistic - just plain dumb. If a squirrel downs a man (however that should happen), he should die of gangrene later on or a savaged jugular (maybe after he went unconscious?).

Getting someone permanently injured really isnt helping the game. Most players will just give them a oneway trip to the slave trader, and replace it with a fresh slave from the very same trader (its what many DF and Gnomoria players do - cull the injured, get new recruits).

Good news for you: Prosthetic limbs/restorative surgeries have already been confirmed for Alpha 7.

You gotta remember this is an Alpha, and you are an alpha tester. The goal here isn't to provide you with a fun experience, it's to test and implement game play systems. It only seems harsh and unforgiving because the rest of it hasn't been implemented yet. It's also the first iteration of the system and obviously needs a little tweaking. (I have a  colonist who is "seriously impaired" because he has a squirrel scratch scar on his pinky finger lol. His stats are all fine though and he doesn't suffer any negatives to working or moving, but he has a constant 3% pain.) Just have fun with it Lol, it will be ironed out, balanced, and added on to in due time.

[UrbanBourbon]

I hate it with a passion. Its just turning up the RNG to a ridiculous degree...

I was afraid of that. I just watched a letsplay video of Alpha 6. In the video a raider gets shot and his.. heart is nicked. He lives. Yeah, like, no big deal. I'm pretty sure if a heart gets grazed by a bullet, you'll die in a minute, with first-aid or not. Currently the system not only doesn't reflect the seriousness of certain injuries, but also the delivered damage amount and types are distributed seemingly randomly. If it's not random, I'd like to know the logic, or at least get a picture of the distant future end goal when it comes to this matter. Will the injuries inflicted by small critters be limited to bites and scratches (puncture wounds and lacerations)? Or should a squirrel be able to crush a man's spine and heart with one swipe, and the man would survive such injuries?


Quite frankly, I was caught off-guard with the detailed anatomy and medical system. It's both disconcerting but also distantly positive. The concern is that this means we're at the start of a lengthy refinement process, and we're the guinea pigs. Right now I have no guarantees if the distant future end result will please me when it comes to this matter. I'm inclined to put RimWorld away for a long time to come because I want to protect myself from the aggravation of blatant, constant and unentertaining irrationality I'd be forced to deal with for (what I suspect to be is) a long time. I emphasize the word 'unentertaining'. Sure, there is certain humor in seeing a small animal bust a colonist's jaw (for example), but the fun is shortlived. When it happens the second time, it's just annoying, and eventually it'll just... drive me... to outsource combat and hunting... to turrets... or similarly safer methods... that... don't involve risking damage to vital organs... Also, miniguns are... probably pretty overpowered now...


Anyway, I'm upset, or at least try to be. I'm not having fun. I swear.


No one likes crippled colonists with no hope of ever being cured. Now, if there were technologies that required lenghty research, and you'd have the HOPE of eventually restoring colonists to full functionality, or even further, within the same playthrough, that'd be great. But we don't have that hope now. So, I'm off RimWorld. I'm shielding myself. You've been a nice drug and a distraction so far but this stage is just meh, even though I was pretty ecstatic and amazed while reading through the list of updates. Even if Alpha 7 rescues this current situation, it doesn't matter right now. A month off, a year off, doesn't make a difference to me. I'll stick with letsplays at most. Or Alpha 5... Uhh, I mean, I'm quitting.

[BetaSpectre]

I feel like there should be an option to turn this on or not.
Its a great damage system but its not for all of us.

[DeltaV]

I personally adore the new system, it adds some actual meaning to combat besides "Sponge up bullets, be fully healed two days later". The point of the game is to generate stories, not to win every time.

[Shinzy]

I personally adore the new system, it adds some actual meaning to combat besides "Sponge up bullets, be fully healed two days later". The point of the game is to generate stories, not to win every time.

^ This!
One of my colonists has neverending headache now due to old gunshot in the face it's really cool =P

But I've always enjoyed the 'iron man' and 'hardcore' mode sort of stuffs myself even if it's unfair
they usually end up in blaze of glory (or slipping on a soap and hitting your head on the bathtub)
Most of the time there's lot of great stuff happening before you end up dead
and really wanna see what happens on the next go =P

But options are the best
being allowed to tailor the experience to fit your own tastes like Bspectre there says would be nice

[HatesYourFace]

-snip-

Step 1: New feature released that still needs some balancing/tweaking.
Step 2: Freak out over it and quit.
Step 3: Profit?

I personally adore the new system, it adds some actual meaning to combat besides "Sponge up bullets, be fully healed two days later". The point of the game is to generate stories, not to win every time.

^This.

^^Double-this.

Also, I don't get where everyone is coming up with idea that it's unfairly brutal and random. I had a guy get chased back to the colony being attacked by two squirrels and sure when he got back he was in a lot of pain, covered in scratches/bites, and his work/movement efficiency was down by half. But, after setting a Medical bed, Prioritizing him to heal on it, then ordering him to rest until fully healed, that all went away except for a scratch scar on his finger and his work/movement is back to normal. Another colonist was shot 4 times by an auto turret by accident, 2 in the leg, one in the chest and 1 in the arm. He also recovered pretty much to full capacity. I mean, yeah some guys catch one in the head and die, but that's life. Honestly it's not that different from Alpha 5 in that respect, I've had guys 1 or 2 shot incapped by a competent sniper even before this damage update. If anything, it puts things back in the colonists favor by making the raiders less durable.

[Neurotoxin]

You gotta remember this is an Alpha, and you are an alpha tester. The goal here isn't to provide you with a fun experience, it's to test and implement game play systems.

That's not entirely true. Yes the point in an Alpha is feature implementation and building the core backend to extend with more content once feature complete is achieved but, From what I've seen with the development of this game Ludeon tries to make each stage as enjoyable as possible. That being said, features shouldn't be assumed complete or perfect when we get them, just remember that what you get in an alpha is a skeleton of what the game can and will be.

There's so much that I like about this new alpha that I can look passed the problems with the new combat system. Those are stated pretty well in this thread elsewhere so I won't rehash it. I like having a world, where I can kind of pick my base location, at least the biome and how mountainous it is. I like that I don't start with a wave of 1 enemy then suddenly there's 20, the storyteller seems to ramp up a lot more gradually. I like how easy it is to capture enemies now, although they will likely have injuries.

I don't want to be one of those fan-boys that quickly disregards anyone who has a negative opinion on a game I like. Complaints are valid, and in the end they'll make a better game. Give the system a few updates, with all of our feedback (positive AND negative) and it'll shine.

[Coenmcj]

-snip-

Step 1: New feature released that still needs some balancing/tweaking.
Step 2: Freak out over it and quit.
Step 3: Profit?

I personally adore the new system, it adds some actual meaning to combat besides "Sponge up bullets, be fully healed two days later". The point of the game is to generate stories, not to win every time.

^This.

^^Double-this.

^^^Triple-this.

BINGO!

All joking aside, I like the system, it adds to the game. All the panicking going on about this system is all part of the process, the system is new and juvenile, everything in a game requires modifying and fine tuning to perfect it for the grander audience, Tynan & Co will do so until they're happy with the system.

I don't want to be one of those fan-boys that quickly disregards anyone who has a negative opinion on a game I like. Complaints are valid, and in the end they'll make a better game. Give the system a few updates, with all of our feedback (positive AND negative) and it'll shine.

^ This, Those at Ludeon Studios are brilliant at what they do, Just give them some time and you'll be glad you did.

[milon]

I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard to make a mod that nerfs the crippling effects currently in the game.  Those who don't like the bodypart / serious injury bits could easily bypass them.

EDIT - Until such a mod exists, the save game editor may be useful.

[christhekiller]

I'm in a love/ hate relationship with it.

I think the new system will be perfect once I'm able to craft some prosthetic limbs for the crippled folk. Seeing a perfectly fine colonist lying in bed all day, with nothing I can do about it, is sort of disheartening. And I certainly don't want to kill the guy off, or sell him to slavery, I'm not some cold hearted psychopath ya know.

And I'd probably tone down the M-24s a little bit. Had a large-ish raider group with a couple M24s come in and they ended up headshoting (and killing) 3 colonist as my one M24 guy wasn't able to counter them quickly enough, and they had a wall of raiders with other weapons blocking them, so no bum-rush was possible. Also maybe the ability to create medicine somehow would be nice.

[DeltaV]

I'm in a love/ hate relationship with it.

I think the new system will be perfect once I'm able to craft some prosthetic limbs for the crippled folk. Seeing a perfectly fine colonist lying in bed all day, with nothing I can do about it, is sort of disheartening. And I certainly don't want to kill the guy off, or sell him to slavery, I'm not some cold hearted psychopath ya know.

And I'd probably tone down the M-24s a little bit. Had a large-ish raider group with a couple M24s come in and they ended up headshoting (and killing) 3 colonist as my one M24 guy wasn't able to counter them quickly enough, and they had a wall of raiders with other weapons blocking them, so no bum-rush was possible. Also maybe the ability to create medicine somehow would be nice.

I personally like to imagine that my legless colonists realize that they're just holding everyone back and decide to allow the others to 'pull the plug', so to speak. Makes it just a bit less morbid.

As far as the M24s go, I've found that in this update more than any other choke points are an absolute necessity. Before Alpha 6 I could get away with feeling less 'cheaty' and just building a perimeter to defend around my entire base, but now the only way I'm surviving raids is to pile sandbags far enough that the snipers couldn't shoot if they stood on the edge of them, which forces everyone to come nicely within range of some charge rifles (Fun fact: When walking across debris and/or sandbags, pawns can't shoot )