Hey Guys,
i got a little question about the expectations
What does High expectations mean? Is that something like they expect that they dont have to work anymore or what?
i give my colonists fine meals and everyone has a 7x7 room and my colony wealth is about 251955, it might be that high because i use some mods.
Modlist: http://puu.sh/gnpeZ/cf72be0c28.png
Sorry for my bad english, english isn't my native language
Best regards Passi965
High Expectations is a mood debuff that kicks in above a certain colony wealth.
Eventually when your wealth becomes high enough it'll turn into Very High expectations which is -8.
It's identical to every other mood modifier and you don't need to do anything in particular to remove it, you just have to compensate for it.
Thanks for the reply
so does that mean i cant do anything besides from tearing down some buildings so the wealth lowers to ''remove'' the debuff?
Yeah lowering wealth will remove it but wealth includes everything in your stockpiles as well so structures alone won't do it.
I personally try and combat it with beauty increases since Pleasant Environment is +5 and Very Pleasant is +10
Another unfortunate reason to keep silver and other goods out of your stockpiles...
I agree on the stockpile issue. Everything on the floor should be calculated as part of the colony wealth unless some npc decides to pick it up and leave with it.
The stockpile can just be a method to make colonists organize things.
Quote from: Endoric on March 06, 2015, 03:36:42 PM
I agree on the stockpile issue. Everything on the floor should be calculated as part of the colony wealth unless some npc decides to pick it up and leave with it.
The stockpile can just be a method to make colonists organize things.
This is already the case; wealth calculates using every item on the map. You can't exploit it by deleting stockpiles all the time.
Re the expectations buffs/debuffs, these will be changed in Alpha 10 to only use buffs for low expectations. Just because I know what it's like to OCD out and hate having permanent debuffs that can't be removed :)
Recently i began mining using a certain OP mod, now i have infinite gold and silver for my colonist to make art, And their art skill tends to be level 10 and up, now am starting to make weapons out of the stuff... Now i have very high expectations and my colony can die if they see just a few corpses.... DX lol.
Quote from: Tynan on March 06, 2015, 04:37:22 PM
Re the expectations buffs/debuffs, these will be changed in Alpha 10 to only use buffs for low expectations. Just because I know what it's like to OCD out and hate having permanent debuffs that can't be removed :)
It wouldn't be so bad if it was easier to compensate for the debuff, right now the only comparable buff to counteract it is Pleasant Environment, but it's a real ball-ache to apply it to troublesome colonists.. or all your colonists.. or any colonists for that matter! Need a lot of bloody art :P
I wouldn't mind if it was a case of " Oh my wealth has reached X point, it's time to spend some time doing X thing so my now-snooty-colonists don't constantly break down because they can't get a chai latte"
Quote from: Boboid on March 06, 2015, 05:29:59 PMI wouldn't mind if it was a case of " Oh my wealth has reached X point, it's time to spend some time doing X thing so my now-snooty-colonists don't constantly break down because they can't get a chai latte"
I lol'ed. I feel pretty much this way. I wish there were more ways to compensate for the debuffs, rather then fewer debuffs. Because I tend to play my game as a long-term survival colony sim rather than shooting for the defined "end", it feels to me as if there should be long term opportunity for additional mood improvements as the colony gets more secure and populous. Perhaps small (maybe like +3 or +5 over a half-day or so, non-stacking) "satisfied" moodlets for indulging in a passion for a certain amount of time, particularly art or cooking. Some form of entertainment (beer is a good start) - maybe books or athletics - for "idle" colonists to partake in for a small "entertained" bonus to mood for a few hours, based on their interests and passions. Things that would combat things like high expectaions (which could also be toned down a little) while adding depth to the characters as well as establishing a feeling of development to a colony that has been in place for four or five years - rather then simply "moar bedrooms! Biggar farms!"
I reckon high expectations debuff should still be in the game, but it should be tied to certain backstories, i.e: Nobles, cause theyre nobles, and miners/slaves would have lower expectations cause that's what their backstory indicates
Haha ^^ nobles already get all the hate for having so few possible jobs, I dont think adding a permanent -8 will make them more liked.
Heh, I don't actually mind having a noble. You don't want a pile of them, but they've still got a few jobs they can do, ones they're generally decent at doing, and someone has to do that job: Research, Wardening, Art...
Hunting, they can do, but they're bad at, since they tend to spontaneously drop their kills in the field and then be unable to bring them back to base. Unless you're hunting by shooting everything in sight and then having the entire colony drag them back to base.
Quote from: lusername on March 07, 2015, 05:14:51 AM... Unless you're hunting by shooting everything in sight and then having the entire colony drag them back to base.
That got me laughing. It's probably not as funny as it seems to me, but still.
I also don't mind having a noble around. They do all of the jobs that I generally neglect because everything else is more important quite well.
Quote from: Darkhymn on March 07, 2015, 05:18:22 AM
That got me laughing. It's probably not as funny as it seems to me, but still.
It gets funnier when you're hunting muffalo with hand grenades. Dude took out the entire herd before finally killing the target.
Quote from: Darkhymn on March 07, 2015, 05:18:22 AMI also don't mind having a noble around. They do all of the jobs that I generally neglect because everything else is more important quite well.
Yes, it's a mild nuisance when they're standing around lollygagging on landing, unable to do anything useful, but quickly fades when you start having things they can do. Someone has to be chained to the research table, and given that research is so short and underwhelming in this game, it doesn't have to be someone who's GOOD at it. Better that Noble with no flames and skill of 3 than your guy with a 12 who can still do something else. Theory of Comparative Advantage comes to mind here.
I dont understand the "High Expectation" debuff. How would a player ever counter act this? Are the colonist expecting to have gold block building their walls, and gold table in the dining room, and gold or silver weapons, ? What? Just because your stock pile has many items in it and your combined wealth is over 200k, dont mean you are wealthy or should expect slaves to follow you around fanning you and offering you grapes from their hands. What is the reasonable expectation that the colonist want when they think about "High Expectation" ?
Quote from: PKGameOnly on March 10, 2015, 03:27:40 PM
Are the colonist expecting to have gold block building their walls, and gold table in the dining room, and gold or silver weapons, ?
Yes. Or at the very least a moderately beautiful home.
I put 3 art really good art sculptures in a spacious interior bedroom with a pessimist and never got the beauty buff. How freaking beautiful does it have to be? You literally go into wealthy status by making sculptures, so you can't "prepare" for this time and also increase raid sizes because of your wealth combating wealth. It's a really really vicious circle causing a very quickly escalated over-reaction.
There's no point in decorating bedrooms. Colonists ignore any environment buff/debuff except room size when they sleep. Not sure if this is intentional.
You need to decorate areas they occupy while awake.
There is no counter. It's just stuck there forever, bugging the OCD, and higher-level colonies don't actually have any greater capacity for making pawns happy than low-level ones, since the game doesn't really have any additional happiness inducers beyond the ones you unlock early. Apparently that's why those debuffs are going away in A10.
You can fill your hallways and farms with sculptures. Takes a million bloody years but you *can* do it to compensate for V-high expectations.
It's pretty clunky though.
Quote from: Boboid on March 10, 2015, 10:50:09 PM
You can fill your hallways and farms with sculptures. Takes a million bloody years but you *can* do it to compensate for V-high expectations.
It's pretty clunky though.
So, in a way, making your base as good as they (highly) expected. Sounds like what it was supposed to do.
Yeah except that the beauty mechanic is all wonky and it doesn't make a lot of intuitive sense.. The amount of actual production time associated with making even a single room beautiful enough to get a +5 mood modifier is gargantuan even if you've got 10 colonists with reasonably high art skill.
If colonists gained a positive mood modifier based on say... the beauty of their actual bedroom then you'd be able to sensibly handle the debuff by specifically targeting problem-prone colonists with your resources, but as-is you have to blanket-fire your entire colony which in most cases is an ENOURMOUS area.
There's theoretically potential for a High Expectations style debuff but with the current game systems it's a bit of a punch in the crotch.
Quote from: PKGameOnly on March 10, 2015, 03:27:40 PM
I dont understand the "High Expectation" debuff. How would a player ever counter act this? Are the colonist expecting to have gold block building their walls, and gold table in the dining room, and gold or silver weapons, ? What? Just because your stock pile has many items in it and your combined wealth is over 200k, dont mean you are wealthy or should expect slaves to follow you around fanning you and offering you grapes from their hands. What is the reasonable expectation that the colonist want when they think about "High Expectation" ?
I posted the first response in this thread (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=11355.0). The ugly mountain fortress they lived in had only a few potted plants for decoration, and those people lived over a year with high expectations and not a single mental break. If your pawns are so miserable that high expectations is causing problems... you should re-evaluate how you're playing.
QuoteThe amount of actual production time associated with making even a single room beautiful enough to get a +5 mood modifier is gargantuan even if you've got 10 colonists with reasonably high art skill.
The problem with decorating bedrooms is it has little effect on colonists, unless your colonists do more than just sleep in their rooms. Decorating places with more colonist traffic like dining rooms has a much higher payback. Throw in some beer and your colonists not only spend more time in the nice dining hall, but the beer will make them feel better about things too.
Plus it's not just about beauty, but also about removing negative thoughts. Providing lighting, for example, will remove the "in the darkness" thought.
Oh Wow,
thank you so much guys for the tips/tricks to ''counter'' the ''High Expectations'' i will try a few things and and give feedback later if it works good or not.