I had one electrical explosion, and 9 colonists. Those 9 colonists have been fighting this fire nonstop for 12 hours and it's barely any smaller. Fire is growing way too fast.
I had another time where a thunderstorm ended with about 6 lightning strikes. The entire map was on fire, and it took 16 hours for rain to finally help put it down.
I hate fire. Fire absolutely ruins games. It leaves you in situations where you lose no matter what you do. It lags the game to unplayability on every system I have, and I have good gaming systems. It can't be put out without severely long hours of firefighting being put to stave it off until rain arrives, and you end up with all your colonists going berzerk.
Fire should be an occasional thing, not something you have to fight every 3 days.
I don't know if this is a difficulty thing or not, but if it is, it needs to be scaled back dramatically. I stopped playing on the hardest difficulty already because of the stupid circumstances that surround every situation. I have yet to be beaten or even lose a single colonist to an enemy since alpha 10. I easily win every fight, even on the hardest difficulty, only to lose to the entire base burning, berserk streaks because I can't keep up with cleaning, berserk streaks because of starvation, because food has become impossible, or quitting because all my people have too serious of injuries or health problems to do anything with.
If it's in grass don't fight the fire directly - make mineral earth fire lines (cut the grass it's burning towards and rob it of fuel). Colonists cut grass much faster then the fight fires (especially if you have a decent amount of colonists on plant cutting duties) you can very easily box in a fire and then just let it burn out.
I can get behind a fire consuming an entire map, because in reality, a fire is just that much of a threat. But, a small fire not being put out, even with nine guys stamping on it, does sound a tad bit OP.
I had no issues with fire, in all honesty. My only gripe was that it wasn't permitted to thrive as it would in real life, by means of the 'rain-sprinkler' mechanic. I know a lot of people don't like fire spread. It was the same with minecraft. Fire is a force of nature that we, as human beings, frequently take for granted, forgetting that if it is not respected and properly handled, it can and often will fuck your shit up in no time at all. Yes, it's a game, but to me, enforcing a restriction on a life force such as fire, and preventing it from acting normally is just a bit on the... cheating side. But most people disliked that fire was realistic and so it was nerfed, its spread was reigned in and instead of being the real threat it should be, it was turned into a minor inconvenience. At present, that is what fire is in this game, as well. I know the current rain-sprinkler' system is just a place holder for future mechanics and methods of fighting fire, so I'm not making an issue about it. But a small fire should be able to be put out by a couple of colonists with relative ease.
just couse itll be asked eventually, you using 10d?
Quote from: rexx1888 on April 22, 2015, 12:59:39 AM
just couse itll be asked eventually, you using 10d?
10c. Didn't see any patchnotes pertaining to anything important. I downloaded 10d, but haven't seen a need to install it.
I always try to make sure my base has fire-lines made out of noncombustible materials everywhere so fires don't spread and can be contained.
Quote from: Mikhail Reign on April 22, 2015, 12:44:14 AM
If it's in grass don't fight the fire directly - make mineral earth fire lines (cut the grass it's burning towards and rob it of fuel). Colonists cut grass much faster then the fight fires (especially if you have a decent amount of colonists on plant cutting duties) you can very easily box in a fire and then just let it burn out.
To be honest, this strategy hadn't occured to me at all.. rather brilliant.
Also if you have extra steel, sandbags stop fire from spreading so you can box the fire in with them.
So, what are these "anti-fire materials" -apart from cutting grass- we can use to prevent fire from spreading out?
Quote from: rmurdocci on April 22, 2015, 01:23:44 AM
So, what are these "anti-fire materials" -apart from cutting grass- we can use to prevent fire from spreading out?
Two rows of any floor should do, right?
Quote from: antibodee on April 22, 2015, 01:08:56 AM
Quote from: rexx1888 on April 22, 2015, 12:59:39 AM
just couse itll be asked eventually, you using 10d?
10c. Didn't see any patchnotes pertaining to anything important. I downloaded 10d, but haven't seen a need to install it.
10d fixes your problems with recruiting prisoners.
Fire is a HUGE threat to life, and has wiped out many real world colonies. Even today fire can destroy a small town with all the fire fighting equipment available... look at what the fires in California do every year.
As for game play, fire needs to be a threat, not I will wait it out until it rains.
Fire breaks are the best way to stop fires. Stone walls do not burn.
Quote from: TLHeart on April 22, 2015, 01:48:41 AM
Fire is a HUGE threat to life, and has wiped out many real world colonies. Even today fire can destroy a small town with all the fire fighting equipment available... look at what the fires in California do every year.
As for game play, fire needs to be a threat, not I will wait it out until it rains.
Fire breaks are the best way to stop fires. Stone walls do not burn.
If we are basing anything on realism, lighting isn't going to set fire to a square mile radius after a 6 hour storm. The ground would be far too wet. Also, lighting wouldnt strike withing the same small area 20 times in an hour, or at least, it would be, statistically speaking, severely unlikely (at least if the climate is anything like Terra Firma).
but you aint on earth son, an who knows what the plants on a RW are actually like. we think its oak, but maybe its actually future oak, a super dense, really hot type of wood that burns ferociously hot.. or some shiz like that. is it really that hard to avoid death by fire? its not something thats come up for me(though my experiences are likely to be completely different to yours anyway)
Quote from: rmurdocci on April 22, 2015, 01:23:44 AM
So, what are these "anti-fire materials" -apart from cutting grass- we can use to prevent fire from spreading out?
A two thick layer of stone or metallic walls, or flooring of any type. Fire "sparks" hop two tiles at most when the fire is at a full blaze on a tile so a two wide gap stops any fire from spreading. Sandbags also stop fire spread. So not only does outdoor flooring give you a pathway that your colonists can walk faster on, it also helps keep everything past the pathway unburnt. Just make sure you're not building with wood outside or you're gonna have a bad time. Wooden walls should really be replaced as soon as is viable.
Quote from: Goo Poni on April 22, 2015, 03:24:56 AM
Quote from: rmurdocci on April 22, 2015, 01:23:44 AM
So, what are these "anti-fire materials" -apart from cutting grass- we can use to prevent fire from spreading out?
A two thick layer of stone or metallic walls, or flooring of any type. Fire "sparks" hop two tiles at most when the fire is at a full blaze on a tile so a two wide gap stops any fire from spreading. Sandbags also stop fire spread. So not only does outdoor flooring give you a pathway that your colonists can walk faster on, it also helps keep everything past the pathway unburnt. Just make sure you're not building with wood outside or you're gonna have a bad time. Wooden walls should really be replaced as soon as is viable.
I'd go three-wide, just to be safe.
Quote from: rexx1888 on April 22, 2015, 02:29:03 AM
but you aint on earth son, an who knows what the plants on a RW are actually like. we think its oak, but maybe its actually future oak, a super dense, really hot type of wood that burns ferociously hot.. or some shiz like that. is it really that hard to avoid death by fire? its not something thats come up for me(though my experiences are likely to be completely different to yours anyway)
It's not about death by fire... more so death by result of fire consequences. Like homes, food storage, ect burning to the ground. More so than that.. fire causes too much lag and it's annoying. I stopped playing on maps over medium size because I was sick of the lag it caused when a huge part of the map is burning far far away from my base. If there was one thing I could change about fire it would be the lag. On and off screen, but on screen worst of all. It's not a viable mechanic until that issue is fixed. I play the newest first person shooters on the highest graphic settings with no prob, but one screen of cartoon fire buries my machine.
Quote from: rexx1888 on April 22, 2015, 02:29:03 AM
but you aint on earth son, an who knows what the plants on a RW are actually like. we think its oak, but maybe its actually future oak, a super dense, really hot type of wood that burns ferociously hot.. or some shiz like that. is it really that hard to avoid death by fire? its not something thats come up for me(though my experiences are likely to be completely different to yours anyway)
Using my amateur science logic here, dusts of many kinds (gunpowder, flour, coal, to name a few) are borderline explosive when atomised and as we get to bigger and bigger particles, things burn slower and slower. Dense, "heavy" wood would surely burn very slowly or even just smoulder. Raging infernos would likely turn the exterior into charcoal and leave damaged wood inside the timber.
Quote from: antibodee on April 22, 2015, 04:32:20 AM
Quote from: rexx1888 on April 22, 2015, 02:29:03 AM
but you aint on earth son, an who knows what the plants on a RW are actually like. we think its oak, but maybe its actually future oak, a super dense, really hot type of wood that burns ferociously hot.. or some shiz like that. is it really that hard to avoid death by fire? its not something thats come up for me(though my experiences are likely to be completely different to yours anyway)
It's not about death by fire... more so death by result of fire consequences. Like homes, food storage, ect burning to the ground. More so than that.. fire causes too much lag and it's annoying. I stopped playing on maps over medium size because I was sick of the lag it caused when a huge part of the map is burning far far away from my base. If there was one thing I could change about fire it would be the lag. On and off screen, but on screen worst of all. It's not a viable mechanic until that issue is fixed. I play the newest first person shooters on the highest graphic settings with no prob, but one screen of cartoon fire buries my machine.
I don't remember having framerate problems even with large blazes. The most stressful thing is probably the smoke effects but I'm sure the smoke effects were culled on my old laptop if there were more than a couple burning tiles.
fire causing lag is gonna be a processor thing, not a graphics thing(which is why it doesnt happen for me).
an really, i enjoy the big terrifying fires... what id love is for floods to be a thing
Quote from: rexx1888 on April 22, 2015, 07:32:40 AM
fire causing lag is gonna be a processor thing, not a graphics thing(which is why it doesnt happen for me).
an really, i enjoy the big terrifying fires... what id love is for floods to be a thing
Oh, oh! Rivers that swell and break their banks during heavily rainy seasons! :D
Quote from: antibodee on April 22, 2015, 02:20:55 AM
Quote from: TLHeart on April 22, 2015, 01:48:41 AM
Fire is a HUGE threat to life, and has wiped out many real world colonies. Even today fire can destroy a small town with all the fire fighting equipment available... look at what the fires in California do every year.
As for game play, fire needs to be a threat, not I will wait it out until it rains.
Fire breaks are the best way to stop fires. Stone walls do not burn.
If we are basing anything on realism, lighting isn't going to set fire to a square mile radius after a 6 hour storm. The ground would be far too wet. Also, lighting wouldnt strike withing the same small area 20 times in an hour, or at least, it would be, statistically speaking, severely unlikely (at least if the climate is anything like Terra Firma).
Really, lightning actually strikes the same places over and over and over. Most wild fires are started by lightning, even after days and days of rain...
Lightning returns to the same area every storm, due to the electrical alignment of the rocks and trees.
Learn to deal with it, by creating fire breaks, quite easy to do.
Quote from: Goo Poni on April 22, 2015, 03:24:56 AM
Quote from: rmurdocci on April 22, 2015, 01:23:44 AM
So, what are these "anti-fire materials" -apart from cutting grass- we can use to prevent fire from spreading out?
A two thick layer of stone or metallic walls, or flooring of any type. Fire "sparks" hop two tiles at most when the fire is at a full blaze on a tile so a two wide gap stops any fire from spreading.
This has caused me to wonder: do strong winds cause sparks to hop for longer distances in the game? Your statement suggests that they don't, but it would be extremely realistic if they did (as the Fire Weather Warning in my real-world area today because of high winds and low humidity aptly demonstrates). Similarly, I'd think that plant seeds would travel longer distances during periods of strong winds. I think it would be pretty cool if these mechanics were reflected in the game.
Heck, maybe there could even be a "windstorm" type of weather event where high winds could actually knock down and destroy lightly-built walls and exposed structures (with varying percentages of likelihood based upon their construction materials).
I agree that it seems like fire now spreads much faster. In some cases to fast to even deal with. I had a boomrat die on me on a map and it burned away my entire farm area.
Though this means that now I need to start building my farms intelligently with gaps, sandbags and all the other suggestions from this thread. Which I kinda like because until I read it here I hadn't really thought of any of those techniques.
While the faster fire is annoying, it doesn't bother me too much. Though if it's fast now, it would be nice if there was a "fire response" technology to research that would double or triple colonists' effectiveness vs fire.
Quote from: antibodee on April 22, 2015, 01:08:56 AM
10c. Didn't see any patchnotes pertaining to anything important. I downloaded 10d, but haven't seen a need to install it.
Off subject: But recruitment works a LOT better in 10d, even those with 99% come over eventually.
Quote from: Mystic on April 22, 2015, 10:21:47 AM
Quote from: Goo Poni on April 22, 2015, 03:24:56 AM
Quote from: rmurdocci on April 22, 2015, 01:23:44 AM
So, what are these "anti-fire materials" -apart from cutting grass- we can use to prevent fire from spreading out?
A two thick layer of stone or metallic walls, or flooring of any type. Fire "sparks" hop two tiles at most when the fire is at a full blaze on a tile so a two wide gap stops any fire from spreading.
This has caused me to wonder: do strong winds cause sparks to hop for longer distances in the game? Your statement suggests that they don't, but it would be extremely realistic if they did (as the Fire Weather Warning in my real-world area today because of high winds and low humidity aptly demonstrates). Similarly, I'd think that plant seeds would travel longer distances during periods of strong winds. I think it would be pretty cool if these mechanics were reflected in the game.
Heck, maybe there could even be a "windstorm" type of weather event where high winds could actually knock down and destroy lightly-built walls and exposed structures (with varying percentages of likelihood based upon their construction materials).
I don't think wind is actually 'something' that is in the game, at least, not in the sense that fire is. There's sound effects and wind turbine results, sure. But I'm not sure that wind is an entity in the game that can actually interact with other aspects in the game world. At least, not yet. It would be great to have such a mechanic at a later date, though. I even mentioned in a thread a small way back about having varying amounts of wind in relation to biomes and elevation, something that could have a greater impact on the practicality of wind turbines as a dominant power source. There are already heat waves and cold snaps. It would be neat to see other weather events added, such as hail storms, dust storms, flooding, heck, even tornadoes or earthquakes!
I like the fact it generally takes longer for fire to trigger rain/snow. it should be a challenge after all.
Quote from: antibodee on April 22, 2015, 01:14:13 AM
Quote from: Mikhail Reign on April 22, 2015, 12:44:14 AM
If it's in grass don't fight the fire directly - make mineral earth fire lines (cut the grass it's burning towards and rob it of fuel). Colonists cut grass much faster then the fight fires (especially if you have a decent amount of colonists on plant cutting duties) you can very easily box in a fire and then just let it burn out.
To be honest, this strategy hadn't occured to me at all.. rather brilliant.
I'm a volunteer member of our local fire brigade. That one of the main ways to fight a bushfire - get out in front of it, and make a break in its fuel. Once the fire gets to your break it burns its self out (as long as you don't get a wind change). Thats actually pretty much how I handle every fire in this game. I also build massive colonies completely out of wood, and I've never had a problem with fire.
You can accomplish the exact same thing by ringing your base with a x2 wide flooring of any type by I prefer to make it hands on.
Also, speaking to the frame rate loss with fires - pretty big gripe on my end too. I've got a decently chunky machine that should be move then capable of handling it, yet every now and again I notice that everything is kinda stuttering and I'm like 'hmm, whats going on?' *zooms out* 'oh. fire'
Fire should definitely be a challenge; I think framerate is one of the main things that makes it aggravating for most users. Thankfully fire optimization is a recurring update (like in today's changelog entry).
That said, fire isn't often a problem for me. I use fireproof materials most of the time and have firefighting set to 1 for every colonist. If rooms get so hot that things start spontaneously combusting, I set no roof zones so the heat can escape. Worse case scenario, rain or snow appears and removes the fire for me after awhile.
Quote from: Dave-In-Texas on April 22, 2015, 12:47:25 PM
I like the fact it generally takes longer for fire to trigger rain/snow. it should be a challenge after all.
of course now i'm finding that rain doesn't put large fires out.. lol. version 10e; not posting a bug report because i'm not running vanilla..
edit: decided to test if it happens in a vanilla game and it does, so i posted a bug report.
Fire not being put out in 10e fixed. Redownload for 10f (now with less petrol rain)