I made a couple of posts about, well, stuff that would make sense in the distant future: brain transplants, more futuristic guns etc.
But it made me think the opposite way, maybe rimworld is set too far in the future.
Because by contrast of them using modern day weapons, it's like us having just discovered you can hurt someone with a sharp stone.
Even with that fact that people could have been on the rimworld for Hundreds of years, there's nothing really that says futuristic.
Weapons range from tribal to a few years ahead pretty much. Both in names and type.
(I get the western outback kind of setting but borderlands has the right asthetic for its weapons.)
It's just hard to believe that our colonists, that I presume are from some sort of fairly tech savvy spaceport or glitterworld would be using a 4000 year old colt pistol after crash landing.
Others thoughts?
The whole setting kind of falls apart after some careful examination, yes
If the tribals have been on the planet for even 1000 years, why haven't they discovered iron, or even copper, yet?
If the Outlanders have been there for longer than you, why don't they also work on building a ship to escape?
See, this whole "Rimworld" thing works FAR better in Warhammer 40,000, because 1) space-travel isn't "casual", like it is in Rimworld, and 2) because of this, societies remain isolated (often deliberately so)
How dare you oppose the almighty Tynan?
Quote from: Boston on August 13, 2015, 12:16:29 PM
If the tribals have been on the planet for even 1000 years, why haven't they discovered iron, or even copper, yet?
Read the game lore, it's fairly consistent. Even if tribals have been there for 1500 years, they may have had major wars and plagues decimate them. This tends to set people back technologically (when immediate survival is more important than long-term research). Also look at Earth's history. There are indigenous tribes today that still haven't discovered copper, yet they've been around for 2000+ years.
Quote from: Boston on August 13, 2015, 12:16:29 PM
If the Outlanders have been there for longer than you, why don't they also work on building a ship to escape?
Who says they're not? They could have launched 3 escape ships already, and still have people left in their Outlander town. We know precious little about the towns & villages around us. It's also possible that they don't have the first clue about interstellar travel. (Maybe that's why they visit so often - to get ideas about our Ship building research!)
Normally, I wouldn't care about the year, because it doesn't really change how the game works or how fun the game actually is. But, given that this is a storytelling game, I would have to agree that 5500 is a bit out there.
Standardized pistols that we use today wouldn't really be a thing 3500 years from now. Or, at least I don't think they would be... lol
There are only a few really advanced forms of weaponry in the game: the charge rifle, charge lance, and inferno cannon (meh)
The game is still in alpha, and I know Tynan and the other developers are working hard to make this the best game that they can. But, the utter lack of futuristic tech/weaponry in a game set in this time period is a bit sad. I think I would be a little more forgiving if the year was a lot closer to present day.
Something around the year 3000 would be much more realistic, in my opinion.
The show Firefly is one of main inspirations, and there's very little in it that actually feels futuristic, that's not just a reskin. Very few plots which wouldn't be possible if it wasn't sci-fi.
High tech stuff is in the game, in the form of glitterworld items. Glitterworld medicine works pretty much regardless of who uses it and in what conditions. Power armor is just more effective armor. Power armor helmet is futuristic in the sense it's a helmet which can save the wearer from a headshot (military helmets can't... even if it doesn't go through, you'd still have a broken neck). Bionic limbs are just more effective prothetics. Neurotrainers - okay, instant manuals, but they don't change how the game plays. They could increase a skill over 5 days and that wouldn't change anything.
Yes, the game needs tech that actually feels like something from the future. Something fresh.
Space elevators. Robots of some sort that are not just repainted colonists. Genetic engineering. Nanobots. Artificial intelligence.
Maybe Tynan needs to read Philip K. Dick's short stories. They're oozing with creativity. Dick's short stories often include inventions which radically change how people live. That's also true for Wells.
For anyone that hasn't seen these yet:
RimWorld Universe Quick Primer (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pIZyKif0bFbBWten4drrm7kfSSfvBoJPgG9-ywfN8j8/pub)
Longsleep Revival Briefing (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fUO3KKbAbTxMP1lqphnnodY0NPoOVblCUkDw-54MDUc/pub)
These explain why there are different levels of technology.
There are also other interesting things there. For example, boomrats were "originally engineered as a weapon," so now that we can tame animals, we should be able to use boomrats as weapons, right? I also hope someday we have boomfruits and/or whip cacti in the game.
Aye, the tech level in the universe is actually all over the place, and the story explains why.
The planets with the tech people are thinking about are the Glitterworlds and beyond that, the Transcendent worlds.
The time scale Tynan choose is actually not bad to allow a wide range of civilization.
Starting years : 2500-3000
Even traveling at the speed of light you don't go very far (and habitable/terraformable planet are scarce)
Worse if you had a inefficient drive : you can easily arrive 1000 (50%) to 5000(20%) years to late, plus, it take a lot of time to build up a population at an human rate (unless you use cloning massively)
Next, 2000 years is long enough for a colony to reach (today's) industrial age or short enough to fall in a dark age for 1000 years. Giving 1000 more years allow for Glitterworld to appear and disappear.
So :
Count 1000to2000 years of travels.
+1000 years to colonize/build up population high enough to be really productive (we leave aside Robot-utopia)
If civilization crumble, you lose 2000 years rebuilding
Else you take another 1000 to reach Glitterworld level and say 500 to Transcend.
So worst case : by launching in 2500+1000darkage+2000 you are a primitive civilization by 5500
Best case : launching in 3000+high-tech1000+1000 you are a glitterworld by 5000, Transcendent by 5500.
And think about it : It took us 2000 years to reach today's technology starting with several millions of individual and reaching 8 billions in the next years.
On a newly colonized planet with a small starting population you'll take a lot of time even inheriting the colony-ship technology and avoiding wars.
tl;dr :
It's as consistent as it can be.
The date makes more sense when you realize (as some posters above have noted) that
1. Planetary apocalypses are a regular event in this universe
2. Without FTL travel, planets are very isolated from each other
For example, the rimworld on which you crash in the game was pretty obviously developed by a technological society at one point (this will be even clearer in A12 with new archaeology finds). The reason they're back to frontier-level technology is because of some catastrophic apocalypse which destroyed technology and knowledge and killed almost everyone.
Or maybe it killed everyone entirely, and the people you meet are descendants of crash survivors. Or of people who woke out of cryptosleep or other bunkers. There are lots of explanations. You just have give up the idea that societies only get smarter, bigger, more powerful.
Just think - what would a Roman at the height of the Empire have thought if you told him that in 1000 years Rome would look like this?
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5d/Claude_Lorrain_-_Capriccio_with_ruins_of_the_Roman_Forum_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg/800px-Claude_Lorrain_-_Capriccio_with_ruins_of_the_Roman_Forum_-_Google_Art_Project.jpg)
I like this idea because it provides story opportunities for entities widely spaced on the development scale to interact. What happens when cowherds graze their cows in the shade of a shattered Colosseum? What happens when a tribal shaman interacts with a superintelligent artificial intelligence? It's interesting.
I don't wish to sound racist but much of the Americas and sub-Sahara Africa never really 'Advanced' after a very primitive point. They were too isolated and too uhh... 'collective' to really try and better their civilizations on their own.
This could be the case after a collapse of a great human galactic empire.
People would be more isolated, and may never really advance at all.
Yep, there's lots of reasons why a people might be stuck in a dark or tribal age for a very long time. Or forever.
Even something as simple as being in a place with a really low population capacity. E.g. the Inuit couldn't ever really advance in their northern climate with a nomadic hunting lifestyle; the land just couldn't sustain a non-nomadic settlement, which is necessary to do anything complex and civilizational. So if you crash-landed on Hoth, 100 years later your descendants might be living a lot like the Inuit, with some scattered bits of old tech around. For a thousand years.
Then 3 survivors crashland nearby and.... the game begins.
Hmm, lores.
Question: How do guys with medieval backgrounds end up with a vastly different job and can board spaceships?
I thought they were more like tribals and wasn't advanced enough to have ship ports. And I imagine their reaction to spaceships would be more like "Witchcraft!", making them very unlikely to board them. While yes, they could've been taken prisoners but I still just find it quite strange.
Yeah, and as for the fact there isn't that much more 'advanced' technology, we may just not advance far. The weapons or technology we unlocked may just be at it's limit, and in-game we could of just not advanced that much in year 5500. The guns we use may be the most efficient guns because we don't have better technology.
Quote from: milon on August 13, 2015, 01:45:35 PM
Quote from: Boston on August 13, 2015, 12:16:29 PM
If the tribals have been on the planet for even 1000 years, why haven't they discovered iron, or even copper, yet?
Read the game lore, it's fairly consistent. Even if tribals have been there for 1500 years, they may have had major wars and plagues decimate them. This tends to set people back technologically (when immediate survival is more important than long-term research). Also look at Earth's history. There are indigenous tribes today that still haven't discovered copper, yet they've been around for 2000+ years.
Quote from: Boston on August 13, 2015, 12:16:29 PM
If the Outlanders have been there for longer than you, why don't they also work on building a ship to escape?
Who says they're not? They could have launched 3 escape ships already, and still have people left in their Outlander town. We know precious little about the towns & villages around us. It's also possible that they don't have the first clue about interstellar travel. (Maybe that's why they visit so often - to get ideas about our Ship building research!)
That isn't quite how "tribal, primitive" warfare works.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_warfare
Essentially, it would be constant, "low-intensity" fighting, instead of the current "ERRYBODY GRAB UR SPEAR" 200+ person raids we have right now. Think people being sniped from the woods, ambushed when they are alone, or resources being stolen. Most Native American "wars" were little more than kidnappings.
Oh, and it is probably because real-life technology doesn't advance in levels like
every game thinks it does, but we tend to move
forwards, rather than backwards. Hell, look at the Black Death, one of the worst plagues to eve strike the planet. Afterwards, we advanced both socially and "technologically".
Hell, the most isolated tribe on the planet, the Sentinelese, have metal tools.
Warhammer 40k works with the different technological levels because 1) technology is controlled in a literal iron-grip via a priest-caste, that deem any and all (a little exaggeration here, they do develop new things every couple centuries) technological development, or anything not based on already lost-and-completely-misunderstood technology... "tech-HERESY", and mindwipe+enslave you for it, and 2) planetary isolation is forced via governmental controls, for military purposes. The entire galaxy is controlled by one government, that burns to the bedrock any planet that disobeys.
That .... doesn't happen in Rimworld. The "neolithic" (hint: if they have metal tools, they aren't Neolithic) tribes can communicate via radio, interplanetary corporations with apparently zero governmental controls zoom past your supposedly-isolated rimworld AWFULLY frequently, and a pirate-faction with
orbital assault pod-capable transportchills out and does jack-all. We are not that isolated.
Hell, the planet we land on is essentially empty. Two tribes, two towns, and a pirate group. In an area the size of New York state, there were 6 tribes with a rough population of at least 200,000 people, 300 years ago. Consider the whole continent.
It's still a video game, it'll never be totally realistic. The goal is to make it interesting and basically believable; beyond that other concerns weight greater than fictional realism.
@Boston I must agree with this guy. It's like "but player lost his technology bla, bla bla" when normal pirates can fly on the orbit and send people in pods, so why they don't have any futuristic things? It's not logicial at all... It's like kids playing in "floor is lava", there is floor, but kids name it lava. Same in Rimworld. There IS futuristic technology in the player world, but you can't earn it. And what about weapon traders? They travel with a spaceship from planet to planet (in godspeed btw, how they can be space-traders in world without light speed, another thing that don't fit in the "lore"), but they sell fucking enfield carabins? For me it isn't logicial... "Hey, bro we can spend 5000 years traveling from planet to planet selling weapons from 2000 year!"
For me player should be able to earn more futuristic stuff, or game shouldn't have pods raiders and traders. Realistic don't always mean logicial. If you make sci-fi game that don't must be realistic i'm okay with that, but when player can only have weapons like Enfield, M16 etc. when pirates can pod-land into your base, but they don't have any futuristic weapons also then i'm not okay with that. It's so unrealistic.
Quote from: Tynan on August 14, 2015, 12:13:11 AM
It's still a video game, it'll never be totally realistic. The goal is to make it interesting and basically believable; beyond that other concerns weight greater than fictional realism.
Absolutely. I think it would a little absurd to say otherwise, and I just want to reel the thread in a little from its tangent.
Basically, if the game is set so far ahead in the future why is there not more future style elements? Guns would be the easiest way to make that apparent.
It all reminds me of a space age 'fallout universe' in which humanity has blown itself to bits. Sure you have people running around with clubs,
Some fire arms have been improvised or hand made,
Some people have found old world weapons like pistols and m-16s,
Then there's the brotherhood who demonstrate to us that lasers, plasma weapons and orbital artillery were very much existent before the world ended.
Everything needs to be more hodge bodge in the same way. Like Adamiks said it wouldn't make much sense if halo kept everything it did (slip space travel, giant cities, super soldiers) if they were still running around with M-16s.
That's not to say it must go, but considering every characters great differences.
A raider from 3201 (frozen for 2000+ years) should Be running around with a sub machine gun that in the lore is 3000 era tech.
Another from 2253 could be using an early survival rifle.
A glitterworld test lab soldier with a 4674 charge rifle.
(Different eras of technology and when it was made is the point here not guns matched to raiders.)
The 'lost for eons' tribal idea is great, it's just we can only imagine glitterworlds are the pinnacle of human achievement but we don't really get to see it apart from medicine and power armor.
Again, that's fine. But what about everything in between now and then?
If charge rifles and power armor are 5000 onwards tech what can we see from humanity's progress in the
3000 and 4000th era even if it's one item or knowing a catastrophic event happened in this time (humanity as a whole)?
If we don't or there is no intention of it, then that's why the post is titled what it is.
Quote from: Tynan on August 14, 2015, 12:13:11 AM
It's still a video game, it'll never be totally realistic. The goal is to make it interesting and basically believable; beyond that other concerns weight greater than fictional realism.
I take no issue with the fact that a video game will never be totally realistic.
Part of the joy of video games is the fact that they aren't ;D
The logic/lore you use to describe the existence of a tribals, outlanders, etc. is sound.
I have no issue with these groups of people existing, and quite enjoy their existence (even if some are utterly annoying in combat scenarios).
Mechanoid technological advancements are their own, and should be treated as such.
I can't ignore charge rifles and personal shields, though. These two technologies in human hands means that there are societies that we can interact with which are arguably advanced.
I don't know, Tynan. I just feel like there's this technological gap that should be filled at some point in the development of this game. That's not to undermine the hard work you've put into this game, trust me! The curve from neolithic weaponry to modern weaponry is fine, but the progression from modern weapons to spacer weapons seems a little... sudden? Also, it's important to note that weapons aren't the only form technology in the game; but, for me the weapons are such a huge, important aspect of surviving in RimWorld, that it's often the first example I turn to... sorry if that bothers anyone.
Quote from: Adamiks on August 14, 2015, 04:58:55 AM
@Boston I must agree with this guy. It's like "but player lost his technology bla, bla bla" when normal pirates can fly on the orbit and send people in pods, so why they don't have any futuristic things? It's not logicial at all... It's like kids playing in "floor is lava", there is floor, but kids name it lava. Same in Rimworld. There IS futuristic technology in the player world, but you can't earn it. And what about weapon traders? They travel with a spaceship from planet to planet (in godspeed btw, how they can be space-traders in world without light speed, another thing that don't fit in the "lore"), but they sell fucking enfield carabins? For me it isn't logicial... "Hey, bro we can spend 5000 years traveling from planet to planet selling weapons from 2000 year!"
For me player should be able to earn more futuristic stuff, or game shouldn't have pods raiders and traders. Realistic don't always mean logicial. If you make sci-fi game that don't must be realistic i'm okay with that, but when player can only have weapons like Enfield, M16 etc. when pirates can pod-land into your base, but they don't have any futuristic weapons also then i'm not okay with that. It's so unrealistic.
Pretty much my point exactly. You can't really say "We are totally isolated", when there are interplanetary corporations sailing overhead (with plenty of stock to sell and cash to buy, mind you) every couple of days. With that in mind, due to the fact that you can talk over the radio to the various tribal groups and outlander towns, they have essentially NO REASON to stay the way they are, asides from some currently-unseen plot rationale. Considering how you can trade things like mined ores and animal skins to the bulk traders, the tribes and outlanders could do the same. Trade for tech, trade for equipment, trade for money, whatever. The point remains: the "isolation!" explanation falls apart under that rationale.
It would be "better" if tribals couldn't be talked to over the radio, and you could only "talk" to them either 1) when they came to visit, 2) by sending them an "envoy", or 3) offering them a place in your settlement (in the American Colonies, European settlers and various tribespeople would often live side by side, trading skills and materials, and often intermarrying. Look at the Jamestown or Plymouth colonies)
Oh, and the whole "primitive, ancient" weapons-thing actually works, both in Rimworld and in WH40k, because the "old" stuff is TOUGH. And UNDERSTOOD. Seriously, in WH40k (38,000 years in the future, mind you, not 5000), the armies of humanity are still using bullet weapons, especially the M2 Browning HMG.
Because it works. Yes, they have Laser (even though a lot of "fluff" about Las-weapons suggests they aren't lasers, but particle accelerators) and plasma weapons, but a "stubber" (in-universe term for a bullet-shooting firearm) can be left in the mud for months, then dragged out and smacked, and still work.
Personally, I would take a bullet-firearm over something fancy, even 5,000 years in the future. Less maintenance, for one, and easier to "understand".
I don't agree with "old" weapons that would "work" in 5000 year. Why? Because even now scientists are working on new, better material for armors. I'm really sure that 9mm bullet from normal pistol wouldn't "work" on futuristic non-kevlar armor. Even kevlar is good enough to stop some bullets, so what about materials from 3000-5000 year? Player have devilstrand and synthetic (how to write this? ;d) already so i'm really sure that humanity discovered new material for armor before player journey begin.
Btw i think that futuristic armors should look more like Nanosuit from Crysis, exoskeletonsuit or suti that makes your invisible (both exo and invisible suit can be made in like next 50-100 years from now, because we know how to be "invisible" ((kind of)) and we're creating more and more advanced "bionic" parts and robots every year, i don't know about nanosuits, but looking at Crysis lore these suits aren't really unrealistic, we would "only" need to find a way to produce energy from soldier's ass :D)
Quote from: Adamiks on August 14, 2015, 10:33:08 AM
I don't agree with "old" weapons that would "work" in 5000 year. Why? Because even now scientists are working on new, better material for armors. I'm really sure that 9mm bullet from normal pistol wouldn't "work" on futuristic non-kevlar armor. Even kevlar is good enough to stop some bullets, so what about materials from 3000-5000 year? Player have devilstrand and synthetic (how to write this? ;d) already so i'm really sure that humanity discovered new material for armor before player journey begin.
Btw i think that futuristic armors should look more like Nanosuit from Crysis, exoskeletonsuit or suti that makes your invisible (both exo and invisible suit can be made in like next 50-100 years from now, because we know how to be "invisible" ((kind of)) and we're creating more and more advanced "bionic" parts and robots every year, i don't know about nanosuits, but looking at Crysis lore these suits aren't really unrealistic, we would "only" need to find a way to produce energy from soldier's ass :D)
In Warhammer 40K, they still use leather and steel and wool (hell, they even use PAPER), even though they have access to plasteel, admantium, and ceramite. Just because they have "access" to advanced materials, doesn't mean it is economically feasible to do so.
likewise with "primitive" firearms: they use them because they are cheap. Take a look at the WH40k lasgun, the most common firearm in the universe.(http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Lasgun) There are probably 100 lasguns for every human beings in the Imperium of Man, and yet, you still have gang members and Planetary Defense Forces and Adminsitratum police officers using "stubber" firearms. Why?
Because stubbers are cheap.
Same thing with armor. Yes, WH40k has Power Armor that makes you next-to invincible, but the average Imperial Guard Trooper wears a Flak Vest that isn't all that impressive (well, they are completely impervious to bullets, but a las-beam or bolter-round go right through them). Why? Because Power Armor is
expensive Hell, "Carapace armor". is expensive. (http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Carapace_Armour). Flak Armor is cheap.
And bullets are easy to make. You can crank out bullets in a machine shop, so long as you have the proper materials. A lasgun requires the supervision of a "Tech-Priest", and the charge-packs are supposedly rather finicky. Same thing with bolter-rounds. Dual stage projectiles, micro-computers that detect changes in mass, highly-pressurized jet fuel, explosive charges, all in something the size of your finger? Give me a bullet any day.
(although I do love me some lasrifles, yes)
I really think the original poster is thinking to much on the concept of Humanity always advancing and I apologize in advance for the long post.
Look at the dark ages and how long it took for us to get through that time period, superstition and indoctrination to the "common normality" as well as persecution of those who thought out the box prevented advancement of a society.
Now consider Humanity spread over the stars and yet their is no "warp jumps" just the slow flight between worlds, that will cause communication to break down, now imagine a world suffers from some sort of disaster, say some colonists power cells or fail due to a solar flare or something to that effect, they have no way to contact others to get replacements and simply wait for a ship to come and do trade and it never arrives.
The next generation would view simple technology as wondrous where and the generation after that might view it as a gift from the gods.
Also you would not fall from current technology levels to say the iron age, after a few generations you would for the most part be in the stone age, people today for example have little day to day knowledge of the technology our ancestors used as it was rendered obsolete and forgotten.
Sure you might find a few enclaves with scraps of knowledge preserves and a few poorly maintained relics of the past but for the most part I foresee people wearing animal skins and wielding spears once more.
Slightly change ballistic weapon art into a more techy style and make small changes to the description and viola... BS that can be accepted.
Quote from: tommonius on August 14, 2015, 10:57:03 AM
I really think the original poster is thinking to much on the concept of Humanity always advancing and I apologize in advance for the long post.
Look at the dark ages and how long it took for us to get through that time period, superstition and indoctrination to the "common normality" as well as persecution of those who thought out the box prevented advancement of a society.
Now consider Humanity spread over the stars and yet their is no "warp jumps" just the slow flight between worlds, that will cause communication to break down, now imagine a world suffers from some sort of disaster, say some colonists power cells or fail due to a solar flare or something to that effect, they have no way to contact others to get replacements and simply wait for a ship to come and do trade and it never arrives.
The next generation would view simple technology as wondrous where and the generation after that might view it as a gift from the gods.
Also you would not fall from current technology levels to say the iron age, after a few generations you would for the most part be in the stone age, people today for example have little day to day knowledge of the technology our ancestors used as it was rendered obsolete and forgotten.
Sure you might find a few enclaves with scraps of knowledge preserves and a few poorly maintained relics of the past but for the most part I foresee people wearing animal skins and wielding spears once more.
You do realize that during the so-called "Dark Ages", humanity actually ADVANCED in technology? The wind-mill, the crossbow, advancements in medicine, etc.
Anybody who calls the period "the Dark Ages" isn't taken seriously by historians, anymore. It actually wasn't all that bad.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Ages_(historiography)#Modern_academic_use
@Boston I still don't agree (about weapons). Things are expensive when people don't use some things everyday. For example robots. Try to buy any kind of inteligent robot (yes, we have them already). Try to buy any kind of robot 100 years from today. Prices are changing. People don't reasearch only weapons, they also reasearch cheap ways to make them, or way to find a "money" for them. When we will find a way to travel to another planets, EVERYTHING will be a lot cheaper. Dude, there are planets made from pure DIAMONDS! And it's not like that modern firearms are "cheap", our guns would be very expensive 100-200 years ago. I'm really sure that mankind will push and push to make their way into better technology, i think we will do it until we'll reach the Ultimate Knowledge. With your example people today should use blackpowder weapons. Why they're not using them? Because we have better guns and resources to make them, like people in future will have better guns and access to more and better resources for them. Blackpowder weapons "works" too, but even gangs are using normal guns anyway.
@tommonius. People get new knowledge even during Black Death. You see now? When things get worse than we're advancing faster. Most of simple technology have been "researched" during bad times, when people was hungry etc. It's working like that - do something or die. I really don't believe that futuristic colonists would land on new planet and they would return to stone age, because some asteroids came down. No, futuristic colonists would have technology that would help them in these situations. Even NOW we can protect ourselfs from asteroids! What about 1000 years in future? If asteroid would be size of Pluto then colonists would just fly to home/another planet, it's simple, isn't it? Saying that colonists would go back to stone age is hilarious, it's almost like saying that people discovered America using boat and they traveled without any food. It isn't working like that, when you want to spend next 2000 years flying to another planet you should make plans for situations that can happen on this happen or even what can happen to the planet in next 2500 years!
"Bus Ship-Crash number 524 is going to planet named... I don't fucking know, we're just traveling, if you want to spend next 2000 years flying just give us your cash. We have don't fucking idea about that star system and what can live there, no we didn't send any probes our use any high-tech telescops, because we're fucking idiots, our AI system is the best and it can fly over 50km without crashing!"
*New Game*
Just gonna point out that the traders above aren't universe-wide traders.
It's already been explained (Can't remember where exactly) that they only travel to the closest stars or planets, they don't go far at all.
Quote from: Klitri on August 14, 2015, 12:12:40 PM
Just gonna point out that the traders above aren't universe-wide traders.
It's already been explained (Can't remember where exactly) that they only travel to the closest stars or planets, they don't go far at all.
Traveling to another star wtihout light speed may take your whole life, at very least.
I once did an unofficial fan-explanation of why there is "regular spaceship going around".
It hinge around the following :
- Near the center of the galaxy inhabited star system can be around 2~10 light-years aways.
- Most spaceship are automated cargo, human passenger being cargo.
- There is a market for people to abandon even high-tech planet toward another one even primitive in hope of having a more fulfilling live, fleeing rules or ruling over natives.
- Spaceship are reliable only over 10/20 years of travels, so stopping near inhabitable planets for checkup is preferred.
- Spaceship AI/Pirates will trade worthless items/human for better/exotic one.
Though I wouldn't mind if there was a purely local trade-system, exchange of scavenged part from archaeological site and dropped container.
"- Near the center of the galaxy inhabited star system can be around 2~10 light-years aways."
Rimworld ISN'T in the center of galaxy, this is why it's called Rimworld.
"- Most spaceship are automated cargo, human passenger being cargo."
"- There is a market for people to abandon even high-tech planet toward another one even primitive in hope of having a more fulfilling live, fleeing rules or ruling over natives."
There is so much of them than you can have a ship every 5 days? You know how much more it takes to travel even to another planet, not talking about stars without light speed?
"- Spaceship are reliable only over 10/20 years of travels, so stopping near inhabitable planets for checkup is preferred."
Why? Ships in games have reactors that (i think) make fuel from nothing. And 10/20 years? If this would work like this player wouldn't crash on Rimworld.
"- Spaceship AI/Pirates will trade worthless items/human for better/exotic one."
Explain nothing. That they WANT something don't make it possible (sorry, your dreams will stay just dreams)
It's like creating "story" in FNAF that don't have any story. It's just working like that and it's not logicial, don't look for much sense when there isn't any.
If you can make armor out of stuff a lead bullet can't get through, you can use new stuff to make a bullet that does go through it, and fire it out of a 9mm. Or just use advanced machining to make a monomolecular tipped bullet. Kevlar that. :)
Also nobody is wearing anything that stops lead bullets most of the time in Rimworld.
Also, mechs, charge rifles, glitterworld medicine, bionics, it may not be pervasive, but the game has future tech in it, and one item is explicitly from the glitterworlds where tech DID advance for another 2-3000 years unimpeded.
Never mind the ability of any random trio of survivors to build turrets with advanced AI capable of not only engaging arbitrary targets automatically, but also of doing foolproof IFF completely visually.
"If you can make armor out of stuff a lead bullet can't get through, you can use new stuff to make a bullet that does go through it, and fire it out of a 9mm. Or just use advanced machining to make a monomolecular tipped bullet. Kevlar that. :)"
Guns and bullets don't works just like that.
"Also nobody is wearing anything that stops lead bullets most of the time in Rimworld."
That's the case.
"Also, mechs, charge rifles, glitterworld medicine, bionics, it may not be pervasive, but the game has future tech in it, and one item is explicitly from the glitterworlds where tech DID advance for another 2-3000 years unimpeded."
1 charge rifle that (for me) is weaker than M16 due to small range. Glitterworld medicine? It's jsut a better antibiotics... Bionics? Like max 50 years and we will have ultra super bionic body parts. Now we have kinda bionic parts - parts from steel but that can be controled by mind.
"Never mind the ability of any random trio of survivors to build turrets with advanced AI capable of not only engaging arbitrary targets automatically, but also of doing foolproof IFF completely visually."
That's the case also. Player can do it, but he use Enfield from World War II.
I don't think you could really make the game "about" realistic deep future tech in any scenario.
Most visions of "futuristic" warfare are just visions of present warfare with guns that glow or look different. In reality, it'll be as different as the battle of Thermoplye was to the battle of Stalingrad.
There likely wouldn't be much of a role for people, either. Once you assume general AI and really high-tech manufacturing, there's little reason to build "guns" and human soldiers would be largely useless. You'd see things like swarms of honeybee-sized drones with poison injectors or drills to burrow into people. Or rapid autonomous ground robots that run at 100km/h, leap 30m in the air and fire single perfectly-aimed shots at targets while twisting through the air at tremendous speed. It's interesting to consider but it's not necessarily the game I prefer to make.
Well... I'm not talking about making killer-robots, i'm talking about making more futuristic weapons/things that one charge rifle. I don't expect much from the Rimworld about future tech, but seriously shooting with enfield in future is like fighting with a bow today. But i can imagine to where people are going too. I think that in future soldiers will fight in nanosuits or at least exosuits (prototypes of these exist even now). Even "modern" guns in Rimworld are starting to be kinda old, M16 for example, great gun, but soldiers was using it in Vietnam, so there are better assault rifles than that even now. Power Armor is just a "better" version of vest, don't give any speed boost etc. Rimworld looks more like history of mankind without World Wars than an actuall Sci-fi game based in 5000 year - a lot of futuristic things from Rimworld are researched now and i think that after like 50-100 years we will can have almost all of the things that are in Rimworld (maybe not mechanoids, though) in 5000 year.
Quote from: Elixiar on August 13, 2015, 10:57:07 AMOthers thoughts?
IMO you think that human species could only move forward (not to stagnate or degrade). And at this point I disagree with you.
Also about year 5500: do you take into account that RimWorld fundamentally do not have FTL travel? For me year 5500 is
TOO SOON.
Think about this, guys:
even today,we have rifles that can shoot around corners, with bullets that are smart enough to be able to detonate on their own over the cover, instead of when it hits things, and have bombs that can fly through specific windowpanes when guided via a laser.
But, with all of that, what gun do you think would serve you best in the frozen North, or an African Savannah? Probably that 100 year old bolt-action rifle.
Quote from: Boston on August 14, 2015, 08:19:20 PM
Think about this, guys:
even today,we have rifles that can shoot around corners, with bullets that are smart enough to be able to detonate on their own over the cover, instead of when it hits things, and have bombs that can fly through specific windowpanes when guided via a laser.
But, with all of that, what gun do you think would serve you best in the frozen North, or an African Savannah? Probably that 100 year old bolt-action rifle.
Probably a best and light assault rifle that this world made. But i really must say that even if modern guns are better i would choose bolt-action rifles. I don't know why, it's just a kind of fetish i really like sniper rifle and bolt-action rifles, i think because i like one shoot-one kill, don't waste ammo, max accuracy things from games ;d But in real life i would choose the best gun on the market.
Quote from: Adamiks on August 14, 2015, 04:36:19 PM
"If you can make armor out of stuff a lead bullet can't get through, you can use new stuff to make a bullet that does go through it, and fire it out of a 9mm. Or just use advanced machining to make a monomolecular tipped bullet. Kevlar that. :)"
Guns and bullets don't works just like that.
I'm confused here. A 9mm gun can fire any appropriately sized bullet. The gun does not care what the bullet is made out of.
Weapons in the future will still just throw metal at things. People love to have their lasers and their plasma, but there's no point to it. High speed metal makes things dead far more efficiently than any sort of flashy exotic weapon.
Glitterworld medicine grants an AUTOMATIC rank 6 in medicine. A pawn who knows nothing about medicine can perform surgery via glitterworld medicine. That is not antibiotics.
I swear I remember Ty saying once that the traders as they are weren't goin to say on the game FOR the reasons you as listing - they were just a stand in for a future trading system. Even if it was just the trading system from Mics (I think - got a few on) mod it'd be sweet. Random pawns from any faction you are friendly with come every now and again and set up a tent near by and you can send someone to go trade with them.
I would prefer to have ground-based traders but it's a significant technical/design challenge. Space traders work quite well and could do so indefinitely; perfecting this hasn't been the top priority.
Quote from: Tynan on August 15, 2015, 01:19:42 AM
I would prefer to have ground-based traders but it's a significant technical/design challenge. Space traders work quite well and could do so indefinitely; perfecting this hasn't been the top priority.
The trading system is fine really. The tribals might just be too stubborn to want change as is often the case but maintain a radio for stuff they accept they can't go without like metals and to trade animal skins. Being that far in the future I can imagine that some sort of better radio technology is available like a dirt cheap torch is today.
As for future tech, no one is really saying they NEED futuristic things because it's a rimworld. A place cobbled together from what falls from the sky and is already available.
It would just be nice to FEEL like we are more in the future.
For example,
A normal M-24 sniper instead being,
An L-34 Gauss Rifle.
Colt pistol - MKII Bolt Revolver.
A small change that feels like a big difference.
The survival rifle is good though I can see that basic type of projectile weapon always being essential. And it sounds nice!
Quote from: Mikhail Reign on August 15, 2015, 01:12:58 AM
I swear I remember Ty saying once that the traders as they are weren't goin to say on the game FOR the reasons you as listing - they were just a stand in for a future trading system. Even if it was just the trading system from Mics (I think - got a few on) mod it'd be sweet. Random pawns from any faction you are friendly with come every now and again and set up a tent near by and you can send someone to go trade with them.
Tynan's basically said the same thing again just above, but the post you're thinking about is this one: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=8114.msg81545#msg81545
As for the year... honestly without FTL I'm inclined to think that it's too soon. I actually think I preferred it when we didn't have the year as a reference point though. Years vary from planet to planet at any rate, and what matters on a Rimworld are the seasons. While you need some kind of calendar to mark the passage of time, planning etc knowing the actual year isn't all that important to gameplay, or the lore frankly.
Quote from: Adamiks on August 14, 2015, 02:09:27 PM
"- Near the center of the galaxy inhabited star system can be around 2~10 light-years aways."
Rimworld ISN'T in the center of galaxy, this is why it's called Rimworld.
First, From the lore data file I'm pretty sure it is. You'd take 13000years at Light-Speed to cross the galaxy, Colonizing near the center is much more interesting (not right at the center, because black hole and stuff).
Next, to quote Asimov's Foundation sometime the outer rim is simply the furthest human can be from a highly populated zone, since without FTL and reason to colonize again a star system is pretty much isolated, it mean a Rimworld can be in between a Primitive world, a High-tech world and a Glitterworld and still be isolated.
Last, even baring that you can take the outer rim of a galactic arms toward the center of the galaxy.
QuoteThere is so much of them than you can have a ship every 5 days?
Easily. Just look at immigration numbers and the number of boat/plane which travel around the world. Our planet population is 8 billions, now imagine 3~6 worlds with extremely more advanced manufacturing ability (we can build a damn ship in the game).
Time is less important under 5 years of travel, what really matter is that people/market keep going for 50 years, which is easy when you sell to underdeveloped country.
In the old sailing era you had expeditions going for years for trade/exploration. Now imagine the prospect of living in a dreamy Glitterworld or Subjugating tribals with your fancy technology.
The cheapest medicine from High-Tech world would be the stuff of legend in a lesser world. (we could make Plasma-riffle and Glitter-stuff overpowered and rare, but it will be hard to balance)
Also applying how today we sell old plane rather than scrap them once we don't use them ourself, I can imagine Spacecraft being used once for migration, then sold at destination (old and unreliable).
QuoteWhy? Ships in games have reactors that (i think) make fuel from nothing. And 10/20 years? If this would work like this player wouldn't crash on Rimworld.
Well, 10-20 is only because someone can receive information about another planets and decide that in that time frame it will not change by the time he/they reach it, then operational-time isn't enough, a lot can happen in space regardless of wear-failure. Just imagining the Mechanoid as remnant from a Terraforming fleet there is a lot of reasons for a spaceship to fail around a planets (which can be an extremely busy place with wreck in orbit, near Kessler Syndrome and all)
Plus second-hand spacecraft.
QuoteExplain nothing. That they WANT something don't make it possible (sorry, your dreams will stay just dreams)
It's like creating "story" in FNAF that don't have any story. It's just working like that and it's not logicial, don't look for much sense when there isn't any.
Woah, I'm feeling hostility here. Did I "triggered" something or what ?
This is obviously a fan-Retcon of Tynan's world, I'm confident I can personally blow your mind with SF more realistic than what you believe to be realistic. The thing is, it will NOT be shaped appropriately for the Firefly wibe (which had FTL).
Tynan could have used a magical Starwars-setting, but that's no fun to work with.
Quote from: Devon_v on August 13, 2015, 03:18:00 PM
Aye, the tech level in the universe is actually all over the place, and the story explains why.
The planets with the tech people are thinking about are the Glitterworlds and beyond that, the Transcendent worlds.
But why is the
average civilization of 5500 so low ? Apparently space travel is so common that ships carry passengers. People routinely crash into planets - that's how you get many extra colonists. You'd think there would be more tech than just "better cloth" and "better steel". Spaceships need lots of supporting technologies at high level of development, a civilization where only spaceships are very advanced makes no sense.
Quote from: Tynan on August 13, 2015, 08:29:40 PM
E.g. the Inuit couldn't ever really advance in their northern climate with a nomadic hunting lifestyle; the land just couldn't sustain a non-nomadic settlement, which is necessary to do anything complex and civilizational.
This seems to be the conventional wisdom, but it doesn't have to be true. Have you heard of Gobekli Tepe in Turkey ? They've unearthed a very impressive ruins of a temple. 10000-11500 years old. Another estimate says 6500 years before the Stonehenge and 6000 before pyramids in Giza. That's even before the Wheel, pottery, and
Neolithic Revolution(You probably know this - wide-scale transition from hunters/gatherers to farmers/agriculture)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEZuLUqn18s
Quote from: Tynan on August 14, 2015, 04:47:11 PM
I don't think you could really make the game "about" realistic deep future tech in any scenario.
Hard SF ? Maia is doing that. The far future colony simulation game. Simon Roth seems pretty serious about it.
Quote
There likely wouldn't be much of a role for people, either. Once you assume general AI and really high-tech manufacturing, there's little reason to build "guns" and human soldiers would be largely useless. You'd see things like swarms of honeybee-sized drones with poison injectors or drills to burrow into people. Or rapid autonomous ground robots that run at 100km/h, leap 30m in the air and fire single perfectly-aimed shots at targets while twisting through the air at tremendous speed. It's interesting to consider but it's not necessarily the game I prefer to make.
Or maybe genetic engineering ? Animals still have a few things going for them. They don't need to be manufactured. They self repair and grow using common materials. Spidersilk may not be the holy grail people once thought it was, but spiders produce it in very low temperature under very low pressure.
Quote from: Devon_v on August 15, 2015, 12:59:45 AM
Quote from: Adamiks on August 14, 2015, 04:36:19 PM
"If you can make armor out of stuff a lead bullet can't get through, you can use new stuff to make a bullet that does go through it, and fire it out of a 9mm. Or just use advanced machining to make a monomolecular tipped bullet. Kevlar that. :)"
Guns and bullets don't works just like that.
I'm confused here. A 9mm gun can fire any appropriately sized bullet. The gun does not care what the bullet is made out of.
Weapons in the future will still just throw metal at things. People love to have their lasers and their plasma, but there's no point to it. High speed metal makes things dead far more efficiently than any sort of flashy exotic weapon.
Glitterworld medicine grants an AUTOMATIC rank 6 in medicine. A pawn who knows nothing about medicine can perform surgery via glitterworld medicine. That is not antibiotics.
1. And what? You will make bullet from anothe metal and then what? Your 9mm pistol will be killing machine? This isn't working like that. Just google how weapons works.
2. Maybe but one futuristic thing don't make game good sci-fi.
@Kegereneku
You made a long post, i don't know from what i should begin. Anyway i still don't agree with you.
1. You said Rimworld is isolated.
2. Galactics are big, distances beetwen them are also big, this is why there wouldn't be ships every 5 days. Why every ship would stop?
"I'm confident I can personally blow your mind with SF more realistic than what you believe to be realistic"
...... My kids and your kids will have a nice fun reading this and looking at the actuall world. If you think that you can say something about future and this will be 100% realistic then, yeah, i'm hostility here.
I know how firearms work. Right now we have many styles of bullets, some of them pierce armor, some of them do ungodly damage to soft targets.
A bullet with a monomol, or close enough, tip isn't going to give a crap about most anti-ballistic protections. Sure it won't go through a tank, and power armor should be good, but we aren't dealing with those things.
Also, f=ma. Very lightweight bullets fired at ludicrous velocity can do more damage than slow, heavy bullets.
Quote from: Tynan on August 15, 2015, 01:19:42 AM
I would prefer to have ground-based traders but it's a significant technical/design challenge. Space traders work quite well and could do so indefinitely; perfecting this hasn't been the top priority.
There is a mod that has traders from the different factions arrive, set up a tent, which you then interact with and the normal trade window appears and sold/brought stuff acts as it always has. How would a potential ground based trading system need to be much more complex then this? Sure I imagine you could do away with the warping by having the trader pawns pick up the supplies and load them into their tent, but his would probably take some time, and quiet frankly I'm OK with the warping trade items.
Quote from: Devon_v on August 15, 2015, 02:22:35 PM
I know how firearms work. Right now we have many styles of bullets, some of them pierce armor, some of them do ungodly damage to soft targets.
A bullet with a monomol, or close enough, tip isn't going to give a crap about most anti-ballistic protections. Sure it won't go through a tank, and power armor should be good, but we aren't dealing with those things.
Also, f=ma. Very lightweight bullets fired at ludicrous velocity can do more damage than slow, heavy bullets.
Yes, you're right, but bullets aren't the only important part of the gun. If this would work like that then people would use only pistol with nice bullets on World War.
Quote from: Adamiks on August 15, 2015, 11:29:27 AM
@Kegereneku
You made a long post, i don't know from what i should begin. Anyway i still don't agree with you.
There's really no reason to see any hostility in that, so...
1) We'll have to agree to disagree.
2) To answer you : Distance are pointless if there's a continuous flow. On a 600 day long migration route you only need 120 spaceship going back and forth to have one every 5 days(which stand in game for nearly a month (so 4-5 spaceship)). For info there's easily 7000 airliners in service today, not counting cargo-boats.
Why would they stop ? Already given on possible reason : stopping around inhabitable world for checkup.
Alternative reasons I gave in another topics was opportunistic trading with "Rimworld" for AI-core, other artifacts and slaves you might not get on civilized world.
3) As I said I wouldn't mind caravan trading at 100% from scavenged items, crashed ship.
I'm assuming you are criticizing only the level of realism, I'm boasting rhetorically that if I wanted I could write stuff more realistic than you would know. But if you are criticizing it for being FICTION at all, there's no point discussing this. Rimworld isn't reality.
Quote from: Boston on August 13, 2015, 12:16:29 PM
The whole setting kind of falls apart after some careful examination, yes
If the tribals have been on the planet for even 1000 years, why haven't they discovered iron, or even copper, yet?
If the Outlanders have been there for longer than you, why don't they also work on building a ship to escape?
We still have tribals today that continue their culture and customs. It's not that they don't know of it, they just do not engage and hold true to customs. Tribes in the amazon, aboriginals in Australia, Amish in the US, Tribes in Mongolia and China, Monks in Nepal and India... the list goes on. Plenty of people shun this crazy modern day society and technology.
Secondly, on the same token, what if these said outlanders had no access to plasteel or chose to use that in their base and stay instead of return to an inner world? Look at some of the colonist backgrounds. Not every place close to civilization is paradise. Post apocalyptic ruined worlds, hive minds, imperial totalitarian facist worlds... its not all rainbow and sunshine kid. Maybe the colonists thought they were just fine living a country lifestyle of self independence and self reliance?
Two cents,
Cheers.
There are even tribes so wild we don't know what language they speak.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sentinel_Island
People on North Sentinel Island reject any contact with outsiders. They really mean business - when a boat drifted to their shore with two unconscious people (drunk), they killed them. When a larger force shows up, they disappear into the jungle.
There were attempts to make contacts, ships showed up and gifts like coconuts were given. They'd take them, then shake their sticks and bows and shoo the people away.
They've been left alone.
"I wanted I could write stuff more realistic than you would know."
Dude, i'm interested in all universe-realated stuff for my whole live, i'm really sure that you wouldn't write stuff that i wouldn't know. My posts may sound like i don't have any idea about what i'm talking about, but it's because i'm not so good in english to write complicated sentences about universe etc.
One thing to remember about advancing technology is that it doesn't advance evenly, and it isn't always universally available even if it is relatively cheap. Just look at computers in our current world, and just how cheap and easy it is to get your hands on something like a Raspberry Pi. Now go look at regions of extreme poverty.
There can also be a huge difference between general knowledge of a technology, but even with extremely detailed knowledge of the subject it may not be practical or even remotely possible to produce that technology. Myself and several of my former classmates from university all have the technical knowledge to design a fully functional nuclear explosive device, including practical knowledge needed to machine everything involved, but we simply don't have access to the resources needed to undertake such project even if we could find some way around the law to get away with trying to build such a thing. ("We just wanted to build one to prove that we could, we didn't plan to set it off at any point... honest!" probably won't fly very well. At least I hope it wouldn't.)
Some technology simply works well enough that it is going to be rather hard to replace. Take the common hammer for example. Go in to any research lab dealing with building advanced robotics, even when those robotics are focused on use in manufacturing, and you're going to find a hammer. Why? Because sometimes the easiest way to fix something involves bashing it (carefully) with a big hunk metal on a stick. And even with all the awesome new materials we have on hand, I personally still tend to prefer a good old fashioned wooden handle on my hammers. Why? Because it is easy to work with and fix should it break. Trying to fix broken fibre glass handles is just a headache.
When it comes to projecting a force at a distance with the goal of destroying a relatively soft target, such as another human, well then you are going to be hard pressed to trump the reliability of setting off a chemical reaction to generate a rapidly expanding gas to propel some manner of small projectile to a high velocity and send it spinning about its axis out a barrel. We've made lots of nice refinements on guns, but we really haven't changed a great deal beyond fine details on the concept in a few hundred years. We've improved loading mechanics, we've improved casing and projectiles, and we've improved the propellents. I really can't think of anything all that innovative being done in the field of small arms since designs dating back to the 50s and 60s other than optics from the late 80s. If you want something that is cheap and easy for pretty much anyone to build, even thousands of years into the future, well it is probably still going to be hard to trump building a variant on design concepts we've been using since probably before the vast majority of the people playing this game were born. Physics won't change the fact that small arms are highly effective at what they do while being very easy to produce.
"Just look at computers in our current world, and just how cheap and easy it is to get your hands on something like a Raspberry Pi."
Speak for yourself... I'm not living in country with "extreme poverty", but this wouldn't be "cheap" for me either. My whole computer costed like 1.5/2x average "raspberry Pi" (i don't have any idea what is that...)
Your computer cost $50?
Mah computer costs 1k... but I got it on a 30% of sale and only payed $700...
Ps: if your computer only costs $50 dollars i don't know how your running RW... W10 costs ~$120 so you don't have windows... Mac MINI's cost ~$600... so you don't have a mac... and you cant have a ubunto pc... $50 will never reach the minimum hardware requirements (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SystemRequirements)...
Your ever running MSDOS or think OS are overrated... if you have the latter I don't know how your computer works... if you got MSDOS I wonder how you got RW to work... Maybe your using a potato... ;D
Edit:
RaspberryPI
https://www.raspberrypi.org/products/
Quote from: Mikhail Reign on August 17, 2015, 12:19:09 AM
Your computer cost $50?
More like $100 (in dollars). I don't know what you would get for this in english countries so i will put my system here:
2gb RAM.
CPU - Intel Pentium D CPU 2x3ghz.
GPU - NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GS (128mb 64bits)
Windows 7. With this computer i got a key to Windows XP Home Premium, but yeah... Judge if you want.
"if your computer only costs $50 dollars i don't know how your running RW..."
I get like maks 30 fps at no warp and like 7-15 on 3x warp on big colonies (30-50 colonists).
" W10 costs ~$120 so you don't have windows"
Windows 10 is the only windows? And btw who still pays for systems in these days? I think that mostly people from US and UK.
"Maybe your using a potato... ;D"
This isn't nice, dude.... Is this my fault that i'm living in poorer country than you? You know, i would like to have a nice computer too, but what i can do?
Windows 7 costs ~$100 (https://www.google.ca/search?espv=2&q=windows+7+price&oq=windows+7+price&gs_l=serp.1.0.0i20j0i7i30l9.6522.10089.0.10355.7.7.0.0.0.0.111.572.6j1.7.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..0.7.569.HSXzp7DIkWU)... I'd say your living in a pretty wealthy country to be able to get W7 + a PC for only $100
The potato was not as an insult but instead as a joke, sorry if you took it the wrong way. (http://i.imgur.com/0S5spVmb.jpg)
I didn't get W7. This is the point. And i bought that PC without graphic card and with 1 gb ram, so i'm don't sure if it was good deal. But i got that 1 gb ram and GPU for free, though.
And i'm not upset, i understand it was a joke, but you know... My computer is a real potato refering to modern PCs. Anyway i'm sorry for that.
Time dilation, who is to say what time it is. So get off your soap boxes people.
Quote from: Adamiks on August 17, 2015, 01:23:13 AM
I didn't get W7. This is the point. And i bought that PC without graphic card and with 1 gb ram, so i'm don't sure if it was good deal. But i got that 1 gb ram and GPU for free, though.
And i'm not upset, i understand it was a joke, but you know... My computer is a real potato refering to modern PCs. Anyway i'm sorry for that.
Yeah I think the problem was that you haven't heard of a raspberry pi before. They are basically all-in-one micro PC's. In western countries they cost <$50US. You use them for running software on custom builds etc (If you had a couch cushion that lit up with LEDs and displayed messages sent from a phone, it would be a Pi that was running the show on the inside).
Raspberry Pi
(http://www.v3.co.uk/IMG/921/293921/raspberry-pi-model-b-plus-hand-540x334.jpg)
This thing can run Quake 3 Arena.
Reading you I suddenly feel rich for buying THIS VERY DAY a computer around 1400$
...that said it's purely coincidental since I was using an 10 frigging-years-old XP computers I got for free until now. And I'm hoping for the new one to last longer.
ps : we totally went off topic
"Raspberry Pi
This thing can run Quake 3 Arena."
It's better than my PC, then ;d
"Reading you I suddenly feel rich for buying THIS VERY DAY a computer around 1400$"
My computer is like 8-10 years old - i barely could play Crysis 1 (smallest settings, shitty fps). I'm just poor, but i think you're kinda "more than normal rich", because these days stuff for PC is just amazing... and costly...
Adamiks... If you don't mind I have a questiom, where do you live? Like what city/town/vliiage/Country do you live in?
Quote from: Tynan. on August 17, 2015, 08:08:44 PM
Adamiks... If you don't mind I have a questiom, where do you live? Like what city/town/vliiage/Country do you live in?
Europe, Poland, "Łódź" (city). But i'm not a adult yet (14 years, i think you can see it on my profile), my dad died like... when i was 8? So only my mom is working, but looking at prices at my country i'm pretty sure that even if my mom would have partner this would be so much better.
Btw i you was going to say "sorry that your dad died" or something like that, you don't must, or - better - just don't say it because to be honest i was young when he died so i don't really care now + these situations are kinda awkward. It's so kind of you Tynan that you said that!
I'm joking, i know it is you! ;D
Poland?
http://www.statista.com/statistics/274326/big-mac-index-global-prices-for-a-big-mac/
Higher = better:
US: 4.79 <--Cause its the US
Can: 4.54 <-- Where I live...
Pol: 2.54 <-- Where you live
Egypt: 2.16 <-- Where I come from
https://www.google.ca/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=ny_gdp_pcap_cd&idim=country:CAN:AUS:USA&hl=en&dl=en#!ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=ny_gdp_pcap_cd&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=region&idim=country:CAN:USA:POL:EGY&ifdim=region&tstart=650872800000&tend=1408255200000&hl=en_US&dl=en&ind=false
Defiantly not the poorest...
Ps:Not men't as a insult... I just like number :).
I didn't said it's the poorest, but c'mon man, 2.5 and 4.5 are diferent enough + prices are not saying about how much you get from "extras from the state" (for kids etc.) and how much you get from work. There is even a chance that you have more money from work in Egypt or something like that, but i really don't have any idea so i will leave it here ;d
Never said you said its the poorest, just stated that...
Anyway... GDP per capita is to summarize "Average money people have"... this is usually in US dollars, Poland had 15k, Egypt has 3k... 5x deference...
The big mac index is how much Big Mac Burgers the average person can buy after working an hour...
edit: To add on to what I said, Lets say an Egyptian earns 400 pounds/hr, a polish person earns 20 złoty/hr.
Now lets say an Egyptian can only buy a burger every 2 hours, while a polish person can get 1 every hour... This shows:
A- Egyptian Pounds have less buying power
B- They have less buying power because the economy is in a worse state...
C- Egyptians forever must have less GDP per capita... YES they have 503248329420 Million Pounds average GDP per Capita... but what they have is equivalent to 3k dollors. YES a poland my have 3 złoty average GDP per Capita... but those 3 złoty may equal 15k dollors...
I don't know how much Polish earn in their local currency, but with those 2 numbers(GDP/Capita & BMI) you can tell its rough economic state.
IF Egyptian earn more money they'd have a higher GDP/Capita.
"Never said you said its the poorest, just stated that..."
I know, but it was my shitty talking ;d
"Anyway... GDP per capita is to summarize "Average money people have"... this is usually in US dollars, Poland had 15k, Egypt has 3k... 5x deference... "
Wait... Are you saying that people in Poland have 15.000 dollars in their hands and people in Egypt have 3000 dollars? To be honest i don't know anyone who could get 15K dollars just like that, i think it's so big number because politicians have like 0.5-1 milion dollars in their hands and it makes "average person" really rich.
Btw i think we should move this discussion to the PM, because we're way too off-topic now (mods alert).
Quote from: Adamiks on August 18, 2015, 01:33:22 AM
"Never said you said its the poorest, just stated that..."
I know, but it was my shitty talking ;d
"Anyway... GDP per capita is to summarize "Average money people have"... this is usually in US dollars, Poland had 15k, Egypt has 3k... 5x deference... "
Wait... Are you saying that people in Poland have 15.000 dollars in their hands and people in Egypt have 3000 dollars? To be honest i don't know anyone who could get 15K dollars just like that, i think it's so big number because politicians have like 0.5-1 milion dollars in their hands and it makes "average person" really rich.
Btw i think we should move this discussion to the PM, because we're way too off-topic now (mods alert).
I ment the total worth of everything they own, like there house, clothes, ect...
Also see the 'K'... it means thousand ;D... (Thats not an insult... its a joke)
Uhh... I see. Yeah "had". For me Poland is poorer year by year and to be honest i don't think that my house and everything in it is worth 3k (what did you mean saying "k=thousand", i did something wrong? ;d) dollars. Let's see.... I live in old building (that litterally crumbles). Rooms:
small kitchen (no space for table), 3 general rooms - 1 kinda big, 1 normal/small, 1 self-made small (it's my room, space for bed and desk, it was part of kitchen before), self-made bathroom (self-made by previous locators so instalation is shitty), "hall"/"anteroom" - just a room that connects bathroom (bathroom was a part of anteroom before), small room and kitchen. All would be ok, but because this building is really old walls literally have "fungus" in them, so my house isn't so wealthy = would costs less. It looks that these numbers are not so real or i'm just super poor in my country and i didn't even realised that.
Quote from: Adamiks on August 18, 2015, 01:59:03 AM
(what did you mean saying "k=thousand", i did something wrong? ;d) dollars.
Quote from: Adamiks on August 18, 2015, 01:33:22 AM
Are you saying that people in Poland have 15.000 dollars in their hands and people in Egypt have 3000 dollars?
Thats what i speakabout... its an average of 15k not 15...
Anyway, Its called
AVERAGE GDP/Capita for a reason... you might have slightly less/more... BUT if everything you own costs less than 3k while the average GDP/Capita is 15k then you've probably frogoen to count somthing. Maybe your bank holds some of your property? Or your simply pretty poor :(.
Poland Data:
//Income
Mean wealth per adult: 26,056
Gross Mean wealth per adult: 31,988
Median wealth per adult: 9,109
//Debt
Debt per adult: 5,932
//Price Of Ownerships
GDP PPP: $996.477 billion (21st)
GDP PPP/Capita: $26,210 (49th)
GDP: $491.239 billion (23rd)
GDP/Capita: $12,920 (54th)
//Inequality: Lower is Better
Gini: 32.73 - Down
//Avg. Living Conditions, 1 is perfect
HDI: 0.834 - Ver. High (35th)
//Other
Cur.: Złoty
Pop.: 30 June 2014 estimate - 38,483,957 (34th)
Side note reminder for international discussions involving numbers: Some countries use the period character for decimal notation, and some use the comma. Also different regions group digits in decimal notation different, some spacing every 3 digits with a comma, some with the period, and some with just a space. Other countries also group digits in interesting/weird ways.
Numbers are fun!
But still my earlier post was partly about how wealth, resources, and technology are not always as evenly spread as many people seem to think it will be, especially when talking about the future. I live in a city where the vast majority of people own a car and drive everywhere, but I walk pretty much all the time because I spend my money on things other than a money pit of a car. Some simply can't afford to own their own car, and make do without.
And even if you can afford some technology, you may not have the resources on hand to constantly use it. Fuel and maintenance requirements may simply be too high to use it all the time, so you would hold it in reserve for when it really matters. (I saw a photo from a few years ago of combatants somewhere overseas. They had modified a heavy truck into a light armoured vehicle, but mostly hauled it around with horses, and only fired up the engine to actually engage in combat due to how hard it was to get fuel at the time.) Just because you have access to a given technology doesn't mean you always get to employ it all the time.
"Thats what i speakabout... its an average of 15k not 15..."
Argument quote - "Side note reminder for international discussions involving numbers: Some countries use the period character for decimal notation, and some use the comma. Also different regions group digits in decimal notation different, some spacing every 3 digits with a comma, some with the period, and some with just a space. Other countries also group digits in interesting/weird ways. "
It looks good for me, maybe it's just a international numbers problem :/
"//Avg. Living Conditions, 1 is perfect
HDI: 0.834 - Ver. High (35th)"
Are you kidding me? Who made these statistics? Seriously, to get your way to some doctors you need to wait not days, not month, but MONTHS sometimes even half of year or more! Of course you can just pay and have it right now... Maybe i'm just complaining like almost every old (and not old) man in this country, i don't know, this would be helpful if someone from Poland would say what he thinks about it.
In my country you need to work like min for a pension 20 years (teacher, soldier etc.) or 40-50 (i don't exactly remember) in other "shitty" works. The fun part - you NEED to pay "contribution" while working for your own pension. On the end you can die before you will have enough time in work and if not then your pension is so shitty that old people don't have money even for basic meds that they need - you paid more in your life than you will get when you will be old, and you MUST do it. I don't know how bad situation other countries have but i'm really sure that Poland don't have good life standard* (*not refering to big fat dicks that got money from others hard work, like politics). And btw Poland is really close to Russia and we don't like each other (they cheated us while Germans was attacking us in World War II - both russians soldiers that was already in Poland and our soldiers was waiting for reinforcements), so i will be fucked if World War III will happen :/ Uh, i realised that i'm complaining about not having nice computer while people die so close to my country, i feel bad right now.
Scientist Accountants did it...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index
Takes in account:
GNI PPP/Capita (NOT GDP PPP)
Average Expected Life Span
Average Years Of Schooling...
GNI != GDP...
GNI = GDP + Income from other countries.
GDP/GNI Nominal != GDP/GNI PPP
A rule of thumb for understanding GDP's PPP and nominal is that PPP is how much of a local good (like real estate, labor, or locally grown produce) a person can buy in their country, and nominal is roughly how much of an internationally traded good (diamonds, DVD players, Snickers bars) a person can buy in their country.
Maybe, but i live here so i know what old people can buy after 40 years of working... Numbers are just numbers and guys that have "dirty" money from hard work of regular people are counted here too.
True... but Poland doesn't have 5 people... Polands has ~40k... so the mean should be a good shower of the average state of living.
It's like... If you're young and you have good job you're rich or kinda rich, if you have two people working you are just rich, but when you have 1 person working with like 2 kids, you're fucked, when you can't work you're fucked too, when you're old and you didn't had any good-good job you're fucked too. The point is that you can have money easily, but don't expect much help from country if you're fucked, not like in UK. When i heard how many money people have for just having kids in UK (without second person working), it's almost crazy for me. I understand why so many polish people lives in UK/US/CAN. In Poland if you have kids and no other person working you're just fucking poor, because everything what our country do is collect money from people, give it to politicians (that don't make country any better) and give a part of it to people. So in general - working man - happy man. Not working man for some reason - poor man. And there is a lot of reasons why someone can't go to the work. Also, there are more politicians and "big" civil servants than 5. I'm really sure that 1k of politicians "costs" more than at least 5k of regular mans. I would say more, but it's all based of what "regular" mean.
I see. Anyway good luck to you sir, hopefully you'll find a good job.
Quote from: TheGentlmen on August 18, 2015, 03:15:08 PM
I see. Anyway good luck to you sir, hopefully you'll find a good job.
More like "boy", but i'm okay with that! ;D
*Mom!!! That guy called me "sir"! Can you make me that fucking sandwich?!*
There's so many words so I'll just ignore them, have an encouraging sloth gif.
(http://i.imgur.com/hKdr50s.gif)
Meme language? Ok, ok.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-R35RXU99KBM/Vclq-aNo1cI/AAAAAAAACTI/cAeQz1b9IBI/s426/IMG_3546.GIF)
I really like this, crushing invisible apple is so motivating and makes me dream about good future. I should don't let my dreams be just dreams... I will do it tomorrow.
Quote from: Adamiks on August 18, 2015, 08:01:34 PM
Meme language? Ok, ok.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-R35RXU99KBM/Vclq-aNo1cI/AAAAAAAACTI/cAeQz1b9IBI/s426/IMG_3546.GIF)
I really like this, crushing invisible apple is so motivating and makes me dream about good future. I should don't let my dreams be just dreams... I will do it tomorrow.
Did you just say tomorrow on the same post with the motiviation man? You heathen!
;{ I though you will complete the sentence - THIS WAS A BAIT!!! *360 no-scope MLG sad music*