I hate to be *that* person, but I feel like this is getting kind of ridiculous. Over half a year without a new update and only two reports on progress? I feel like Tynan really needs to release a new update soon. Even if he has added/is adding a lot of stuff, I feel like such a large amount of time between updates is inappropriate. A lot of people have put a decent amount of this (considering the fact that the packages range from $30-$200, plus any donations) and I think we deserve to have at least gotten more than two updates these past seven months.
Quote from: JamesFoster on March 05, 2016, 06:50:37 PM
I hate to be *that* person, but I feel like this is getting kind of ridiculous.
And everyone hates you for it, too.
It's coming soon enough. Just play some other good game for now and tadaa... as soon as you're bored with it, I'm pretty sure A13 is out.
It is annoying, but I have a fair bit of trust for this guy; Had it been someone that hadn't already proven that they want to finish the game, i'd be worried. But I'm not.
I'm sure it'll come soon enough.
That said; He could do a hell of a lot better on informing us about what's going on though.
Patience, young padawan, lay down your pitchfork :P
Tynan announced the update hiatus and his 6 month break, the game is still being worked on though, ison was working fulltime as far as I know. He also announced that the update will be bigger than usual and that it will be released sometime around march, a little bit more patience pls.
Tynan was on break. Meaning he took a vacation. People do that every few years. Yes, game developers need vacations too. Designing a game and programming for a living is not as fun as it sounds. Sure it can be fun but it can also be frustrating and if you don't take a break every now and then, you will burn out.
"Soon" tm
Quote from: IkeaSwede on March 05, 2016, 07:25:02 PM
It is annoying, but I have a fair bit of trust for this guy; Had it been someone that hadn't already proven that they want to finish the game, i'd be worried. But I'm not.
I'm sure it'll come soon enough.
That said; He could do a hell of a lot better on informing us about what's going on though.
I agree with this. I have trust in Tynan to get us this update, no matter how long it takes
Quoting:QuoteCan't wait to get it to you guys. I'll be back in March. (edit: I'm not sure when the alpha will actually be finished. It could be after March – just to be clear).
There's really not much you guys can do at the moment. He said it, so don't expect an update to suddenly appear just because some people are asking for it. Btw, it's also not a really uncommon question so Tynan won't respond to this.
It's not like they've stopped working on the game, they've clearly said that development is still going and a new alpha can be expected in the nearby future. (1-2 months)
I don't need to point at any particular developer to illustrate what happens when games are released or updated without enough QA. In supposedly AAA games it is painful to see.
You'll get a release when it's ready, not before.
This is not your average "6 months, no update" situation. Sure if it was I would be worried too.
This is a "6 months, no update", with advanced notice, an explanation, and reports on progress in the meantime.
Perhaps you missed it, but it was explained that Mr T was going on holiday, and having a (well earned) break.
Frankly, for me, this has been handled very well. I am desperate for an update, but as others have said, we know where things stand, we are staying informed, we know what to expect, and roughly when.
I am seriously impressed that we have had the progress reports we have had, and they point towards a lot of work being done, even while he's on his holidays.
I'm eager to know exactly when we can expect the next Alpha to drop, but I have zero concerns about the development of this game going forward. This game has had (and I am sure will continue to have) one of the best development cycles I have seen from any Indy developer.
We should all be very happy with what we have had, and what we can be confident that we are yet to get.
I hope Tynan is having / has had a top holiday, he's earned it. I look forward to the next update, and I'm happy to wait until he is ready.
A nice break can be a very refreshing thing. There's also something to be said about getting out from under obligations. Tynan mentioned that he's basically still working "25%" on Rimworld, because taking a break from having to work on Rimworld doesn't mean that he doesn't sometimes want to work on Rimworld. He also has a full time coder at the moment so that he's not the only person getting stuff done, which is where all the progress on A13 is coming from. That's the big thing, too, he's not coming back from holiday and then starting up development again, he's coming back, doing some polish, and giving us a new alpha to play with. Personally I think interpersonal reationships are going to be such great fodder for storytelling. (Plus as much as he feels it's beyond the game's scope, it seems he's actually going to add human reproduction, so all the people who want to found a multi-generational permanent colony can rejoice)
The young person that started this thread is merely stating his opinion, which I share, and do not hate him/her for.
Having put money into a pre-release product, ostensibly to support it's ongoing development, we, as consumers and investors, should be allowed to expect a timely and periodic update. That doesn't have to mean new Alpha/Beta releases every month (though we became spoiled here for a while with Rimworld), but having consistent messaging, maybe some screenshots, to keep the appetite whetted is appropriate.
I feel, like this person, that we are being let-down; prior "warning" notwithstanding. Consistent updates, feedback, some media perhaps would go a long way to keeping me, and many others, engaged. At this juncture I lost a large part of my interest in this project; were it not for the many hard-working Mod builders, this game would have long ago gone by the way-side, maybe forever.
All that said, I look forward to a new version just like everyone else; I just won't crucify someone that has an opinion other than mine or yours.
There are 31 days in March. As long as something happens before April he will have kept his promise.
No Jimmy... He said he would be back from his vacation in march, nothing about releasing anything in march. Though it would be fantastic...
Tynan is providing the closest thing there is to Dwarf Fortress that's actually playable and enjoyable by normal people and not just gaming addicts that don't mind spending copious amounts of time deciphering a no-fucks-given UI. That's gaming history being made right there. Have some patience.
Quote from: Devon_v on March 06, 2016, 10:00:23 AM
A nice break can be a very refreshing thing. There's also something to be said about getting out from under obligations. Tynan mentioned that he's basically still working "25%" on Rimworld, because taking a break from having to work on Rimworld doesn't mean that he doesn't sometimes want to work on Rimworld. He also has a full time coder at the moment so that he's not the only person getting stuff done, which is where all the progress on A13 is coming from. That's the big thing, too, he's not coming back from holiday and then starting up development again, he's coming back, doing some polish, and giving us a new alpha to play with. Personally I think interpersonal reationships are going to be such great fodder for storytelling. (Plus as much as he feels it's beyond the game's scope, it seems he's actually going to add human reproduction, so all the people who want to found a multi-generational permanent colony can rejoice)
Where was human reproduction mentioned. It did not say anything in any posts about it. Actually, it even said specifically no kids yet. Also, I would like another progress update too. Now is about the time tyNan is getting back, maybe that is a good time. I think the time in between updates is fine, because this alpha looks huge.
Quote from: Mossy piglet on March 06, 2016, 11:29:39 AMWhere was human reproduction mentioned. It did not say anything in any posts about it. Actually, it even said specifically no kids yet. Also, I would like another progress update too. Now is about the time tyNan is getting back, maybe that is a good time. I think the time in between updates is fine, because this alpha looks huge.
"Yet".
And maybe the thread got deleted because it degenerated into a bunch of bigotry but he commented on the fact that onces pawns have relationships, including sexual, the entire reproductive process is already in the game. All it takes is adding the human animal to the data and coding a limited-capability child life stage.
It's not in A13, but it's apparently been moved from the "out of scope" zone to the "future ideas" zone.
Quote from: JimmyAgnt007 on March 06, 2016, 11:16:02 AM
There are 31 days in March. As long as something happens before April he will have kept his promise.
Not really. If his blog quote is taken literally, he would even keep his promise if he came back March 31 and released A13 on April 30. He never said March is any release date whatsoever.
Things can change significantly prior to a new release. Tynan sometimes asks for gameplay footage to use in a release trailer but, as I recall, only when things are nailed down for that particular release.
Tynan could spend hours putting together a post about this and that and it wouldn't be enough to satisfy the demand for information. So I suppose that he's spending his time cost-effectively by not doing that.
I've accepted the fact that I don't really know when a certain feature or release will be finished. That's the nature of inventing or designing new things. It's not like building a house, where you've done it before and you know how long it'll take. It's unknown territory, so of course there's no way to know how long the path will be. Lots of people fool themselves into thinking they can predict this, and a lot of them suffer for it (hence the absolutely ridiculous rate of missed release dates by game developers).
So since I don't really know when it'll be done, I don't give (or even target) release dates. I just don't know. I could make up a guess, but that's all it'd be - a made-up guess. And that's worse than nothing, because it makes people think there is certainty when there really isn't.
I also think it's mostly a poor use of time for a developer to spend a lot of time pumping or managing public expectations. At the end of the day it's basically irrelevant what happens right now; once the next build is released all this gets wiped away. What matters in the end is the quality of the game, and that's what I prefer to pour all my energy into - not the endless, noisy, but ultimately unimportant expectations-managing publicity game. Because I'm sure you guys want a good game more than you want some blog posts telling you made-up guesses about what's going to happen.
Anyway, I'm happy to say what's happening now, since I don't have to guess at that. I've returned from my trip and am now fulltime+ on RW. Alpha 13 is in testing. Typically this phase lasts a number of weeks, but this one could be quite long given the amount of content that was added. Ison is on it full-time, coding, and I'm doing design and financial and legal work while getting back in the swing of things here. Unfortunately running a business involves ungodly amounts of paperwork.
Anyway, everything is on track and I'm pretty sure y'all are going to be happy at the end of the day.
lord Tynan has spoken. Silence your doubts
I love game mods, so I'm personally a fan of large, infrequent updates. If a game makes a bunch of frequent updates, modders get tired of keeping up with the updates.
Difficult, detailed, worthwhile coding takes a very, very, very long time.
I know that if, hypothetically tynan agreed to do z levels, it could very easily go over a year in development, even with a bit of help (Though, this would be very worth it in my opinion, Sniper towers would rock.)
Glad to see a life sign tynan. Say, if you are still reading, Would I have to re-apply for beta testing, or would I still have myself on the list? I'm contenting myself with bugfinding for doom mods (hideous destructor just had an enormous inventory revamp with tons o bugs), and other stuff, but I'd be happy to take a stab at rimworld again. (especially because, ill be honest, didn't care for the animal update very much.)
Yay, Tynan is indeed alive! Thanks for popping in and letting our minds at ease lol.
And good luck with the paperwork, I don't envy you :P
Quote from: Tynan on March 06, 2016, 08:12:14 PM
I also think it's mostly a poor use of time for a developer to spend a lot of time pumping or managing public expectations. At the end of the day it's basically irrelevant what happens right now; once the next build is released all this gets wiped away. What matters in the end is the quality of the game, and that's what I prefer to pour all my energy into - not the endless, noisy, but ultimately unimportant expectations-managing publicity game. Because I'm sure you guys want a good game more than you want some blog posts telling you made-up guesses about what's going to happen.
Lately, i've been watching ExtraCredit's and Bakuman (An anime about wrinting a manga) and what Tynan told above is the most undeniable true. It just needs to be good. (If it is good it will be published!). If it is good we will play, if it is good people will keep playing and waiting for/creating more content.
It all sums up as: We need a good game. Tynan is building a great game.
mumblemumble, you'll get your turn, don't worry. For now, the build is limited to private testers only.
Also, since Tynan has confirmed that A13 is in testing, I would ask everyone to please not pressure testers for information. Not only do testers get in trouble for revealing things that aren't supposed to be public knowledge yet, but they also don't know what the release will be like when it's done, so it's not like you would get an accurate picture of what's going on anyway.
Thanks in advance for your understanding. :)
Quote from: Tynan on March 06, 2016, 08:12:14 PM
I've accepted the fact that I don't really know when a certain feature or release will be finished. That's the nature of inventing or designing new things. It's not like building a house, where you've done it before and you know how long it'll take. It's unknown territory, so of course there's no way to know how long the path will be. Lots of people fool themselves into thinking they can predict this, and a lot of them suffer for it (hence the absolutely ridiculous rate of missed release dates by game developers).
So since I don't really know when it'll be done, I don't give (or even target) release dates. I just don't know. I could make up a guess, but that's all it'd be - a made-up guess. And that's worse than nothing, because it makes people think there is certainty when there really isn't.
I also think it's mostly a poor use of time for a developer to spend a lot of time pumping or managing public expectations. At the end of the day it's basically irrelevant what happens right now; once the next build is released all this gets wiped away. What matters in the end is the quality of the game, and that's what I prefer to pour all my energy into - not the endless, noisy, but ultimately unimportant expectations-managing publicity game. Because I'm sure you guys want a good game more than you want some blog posts telling you made-up guesses about what's going to happen.
I think you're handling this exactly the right way. So many early access games have broken their necks on souring the community with unfulfilled promises.
just to clairify marvin, wasn't pestering for info, simply asking if I needed to "re-apply" once its open testing, or if it will remember me from last time.
I would THINK it would remember me, but I'm not sure, and I don't want the open beta to slip by without me doing a bit of bugfinding, simply because i made a stupid assumption.
You weren't pestering, I was just putting that out there as a general thing.
You should have access to the Public Tester subforum. When a build goes out to public testers it will light up like a Christmas Tree. :)
Like a petrol-bombed Christmas tree.
I understand the post owner point, as a player who bought several alpha games just to see them abandoned by their devs (felling betrayed and stole in my money) I can comprehend the lack of trust when a dev goes away for 6 months.
As alpha supporters who got let down on other games, we need more reassurance, just throw us a few bones and we might be fine to wait a bit longer.
Quote from: cultist on March 07, 2016, 11:55:27 AM
Quote from: Tynan on March 06, 2016, 08:12:14 PM
I've accepted the fact that I don't really know when a certain feature or release will be finished. That's the nature of inventing or designing new things. It's not like building a house, where you've done it before and you know how long it'll take. It's unknown territory, so of course there's no way to know how long the path will be. Lots of people fool themselves into thinking they can predict this, and a lot of them suffer for it (hence the absolutely ridiculous rate of missed release dates by game developers).
So since I don't really know when it'll be done, I don't give (or even target) release dates. I just don't know. I could make up a guess, but that's all it'd be - a made-up guess. And that's worse than nothing, because it makes people think there is certainty when there really isn't.
I also think it's mostly a poor use of time for a developer to spend a lot of time pumping or managing public expectations. At the end of the day it's basically irrelevant what happens right now; once the next build is released all this gets wiped away. What matters in the end is the quality of the game, and that's what I prefer to pour all my energy into - not the endless, noisy, but ultimately unimportant expectations-managing publicity game. Because I'm sure you guys want a good game more than you want some blog posts telling you made-up guesses about what's going to happen.
I think you're handling this exactly the right way. So many early access games have broken their necks on souring the community with unfulfilled promises.
+1
Quote from: Kadrush on March 08, 2016, 10:52:48 AM
I understand the post owner point, as a player who bought several alpha games just to see them abandoned by their devs (felling betrayed and stole in my money) I can comprehend the lack of trust when a dev goes away for 6 months.
As alpha supporters who got let down on other games, we need more reassurance, just throw us a few bones and we might be fine to wait a bit longer.
If you've already purchased the game, no, you really don't need reassurance. If you liked what you saw enough to drop $30 on it, that's it, you're in. If the dev were to abandon the game, that would be one thing, but if everything is proceeding exactly as the dev said it would, he really doesn't owe anyone pointless status updates to say that everything is exactly as it was. Alpha 13 will not come out a second sooner whether you know exactly what's going on or not. The developer went on vacation, after telling us, like two months in advance, that he was going to go on vacation after a12. The dev is now back, exactly when he said he would be, and we have the "so far" feature list for a13. What more do we need to know?
It's not like the game is even in need of a new version. A12 and a13 are not critical components, they're cool stuff. The game is already mechanically complete with all promised features, everything since then has been a bonus.
Quote from: Tynan on March 06, 2016, 08:12:14 PM
Anyway, everything is on track and I'm pretty sure y'all are going to be happy at the end of the day.
New version out by the end of the day? Hurrah!
#joking
Why only game developers and actors have these 6-12 or more month vacations ? Normal people take a week or max on special occasions a 1 month vacation and after that theyre ready to go to work , all fresh and ready.
Quote from: Oxidus on March 08, 2016, 03:56:08 PM
Why only game developers and actors have these 6-12 or more month vacations ? Normal people take a week or max on special occasions a 1 month vacation and after that theyre ready to go to work , all fresh and ready.
According to Tynan, he worked on this game and coded almost non-stop and needed some rest. Also, your question is self explanatory. Tynan is not a normal person. He is a succesdful indie game developer. With RimWorld, he is basically on the brink of finishing it. Tynan still wants to spend some time this year to add more content to the game and polish it for Steam and most likely after Steam release too.
But like Devon said above, technically, this game is as good as finished and Tynan always kept his promises and was always on time.
That is the reason why he can afford this vacation without feeling he owes the community anything. Besides from the fact that RimWorld essentially mad him a millionaire....
Quote from: Oxidus on March 08, 2016, 03:56:08 PM
Why only game developers and actors have these 6-12 or more month vacations ? Normal people take a week or max on special occasions a 1 month vacation and after that theyre ready to go to work , all fresh and ready.
"Normal people" do not exist. People do. With different experiences, perspective, situations, cultures and lives.
Try not to assume what you consider to be "normal" is the same everywhere else.
Also Game Development in general is not your typical 9 to 5 job.
As I said above, I can't assume or guess what Tynan's daily work schedule or environment is.
But even basic research on the industry will reveal some pretty bad horror stories involving seemingly endless overtime, "crunch time", staying in the office 24/7 and sleeping under your workstation, ect...
Quote from: erdrik on March 08, 2016, 04:14:40 PM
Quote from: Oxidus on March 08, 2016, 03:56:08 PM
Why only game developers and actors have these 6-12 or more month vacations ? Normal people take a week or max on special occasions a 1 month vacation and after that theyre ready to go to work , all fresh and ready.
"Normal people" do not exist. People do. With different experiences, perspective, situations, cultures and lives.
Try not to assume what you consider to be "normal" is the same everywhere else.
Also Game Development in general is not your typical 9 to 5 job.
As I said above, I can't assume or guess what Tynan's daily work schedule or environment is.
But even basic research on the industry will reveal some pretty bad horror stories involving seemingly endless overtime, "crunch time", staying in the office 24/7 and sleeping under your workstation, ect...
Replace typical with normal, job with person , and you are saying the exact same thing.
And while i see the side that Kickstart supporters are, in the end responsible for spending the money, i do think occasional feedback should be given just to keep the community engaged, and to prevent thinking that the game is abandoned.
Obviously ty won't abandon rimworld, not for a few more alphas at least, but getting a bit of an update every 2 months or so is definitely a good thing.
Quote from: mumblemumble on March 08, 2016, 08:56:15 PM
Replace typical with normal, job with person , and you are saying the exact same thing.
...
Good job avoiding the point of my post by bringing attention to a mistake in my presentation.
Too bad it still doesn't change my point or its validity.
Quote from: mumblemumble on March 08, 2016, 08:56:15 PM
..
Obviously ty won't abandon rimworld, not for a few more alphas at least, but getting a bit of an update every 2 months or so is definitely a good thing.
Tynan's Post History (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=1).
Tynan has not only met your 2 month example, but exceeded it in the fact that he was only completely inactive in a
single(December) month over these past 6 months.
From August to now he has posted as follows:
March: 4 posts so far
February: 10 posts
January: 3 posts
November: 3 posts
September: 4 posts
August: 10+ posts
Quote from: erdrik on March 08, 2016, 10:12:15 PM
[...]
Tynan's Post History (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=1).
Tynan has not only met your 2 month example, but exceeded it in the fact that he was only completely inactive in a single(December) month over these past 6 months.
From August to now he has posted as follows:
March: 4 posts so far
February: 10 posts
January: 3 posts
November: 3 posts
September: 4 posts
August: 10+ posts
I think what bothers me more, is the people on this forum, who cannot uncouple their lips/noses from Tynan's backside, and I believe I've spelled that out before. Trying to defend the ridiculous. Speculative posts that suggest they know something everybody else does not, based on sheer speculation. Attempting to normalize abnormal circumstances, etc.
Tynan is an adult, running a business. He is assumed responsible, and able to account for his actions. Trying to kiss his backside, and defend every decision, post, etc. he makes must be pretty grating for the guy.
That, and posts like yours would have a lot more credibility, if you could at least do the math right, I mean seriously, basic counting, how hard is that?
(yes, I realize this is potentially an "inflammatory" post, but Tynan is not a frightened child who is going to run away with your bags of money if don't pucker to his backside 24x7, seriously people, give it a rest).
you just activated my trap card!
I take it as inflammatory. Erdrik was simply showing that Tynan has NOT infact abandoned us. And you decide to pick on that post?. I mean there are plenty of other ones you could have picked on. In fact, you could've done the same argument for everyone who has ever said Tynan is coming back and didn't make a cash grab then leave. Hell, you could've done this for MY post i did earlier. Ah well, also inflammatory response over :P
I think this thread has pretty much run its course; there's little value in continuing.
The next build will come out as soon as possible in as good shape as possible; I very much hope you'll all like it.