The alert system is a good addition to some, but personally I dislike the alert system (for hostile attacks) for a few reasons:
Alerts kill the chance of any surprises. sure you might miss a guy flanking you and be surprised, but if your colonists can tell when raiders/packs of wargs/traders/some random guy passing through/ appears with no explanation than how the hell didn't you see the asteroid that crashed into your ship from ages away. (exaggeration on the last bit :P) It takes from the possible suspense of raids/other threats. As the title suggests maybe make a raid type that doesn't have an alert. Maybe have fewer people in them or something like that to balance it out. I was also thinking that once your pawn was hit or you click on them etc., it would have an alert that lets you know it wasn't a bug or something like that. (a bit more subtle)
My second Idea was for a option (like the iron-man option) to disable alerts for hostile events. I must admit having my guy pass out because I didn't know he had the plague would be a annoying so maybe keep the positive/friendly/not rage because I didn't know my whole colony had malaria alerts.
just giving my two cents.
You'd probably lose your colony to manhunter packs, but to each their own, I guess.
Also, this should be in suggestions.
That's an interesting idea, and I'd use it on occasion if it were implemented.
Quote from: Aatxe360 on May 07, 2016, 03:35:52 AM
Also, this should be in suggestions.
No back seat moderation please. If you see a problem, report it and move on.
i don't mind, as long as it can be toggled as option.
and if one day FOW also becomes available as a toggleable option, i might try a few playthroughs with both FOW active and notifications off.
then i'll play on a modded randy random with a desiredPopulationMin of 50. (edit : oh wait, i think a modded cass is gonna be better and more challenging than randy) play it on a temperate biome rather than ice sheet or extreme desert so there's no free map-wide temperature killbox.
booyah, here comes fun times. ;D
Maybe a special type of raid that's more of a "secretly kidnap colonists" instead of "tear apart the colony".
A group of melee proficient raiders show up without warning and incapacitate and kidnap a colonist and you'd only notice yourself if you saw it happening and it would give a notification once they are carting the colonist off the map.
Maybe it has a higher chance of happening to a colonist who arrived seeking refuge.
Quote from: Glitterworld Plant-Boy on May 07, 2016, 07:27:37 AM
Maybe a special type of raid that's more of a "secretly kidnap colonists" instead of "tear apart the colony".
A group of melee proficient raiders show up without warning and incapacitate and kidnap a colonist and you'd only notice yourself if you saw it happening and it would give a notification once they are carting the colonist off the map.
Maybe it has a higher chance of happening to a colonist who arrived seeking refuge.
Spy, Assasins, Thiefs, they should all add to he game. Imagine if someone just wanders inside your colony, with the intention of killing someone. They appear and start a fight, much like the social one. If he downs your colonist, he kills him.
This would bring much drama, as well as a need of having some melee weapons inside the colonist room.
Maybe some other mechanics will be needed for this to happen, maybe a reworked version of animals healping out, colonist sleeping locking doors, something like that.
yeah so we would have to be always scouting the edges of the map, refreshing enemies on the numbers tab and so on, would totally fit in with the rest of rimworld's gameplay
I bet that the vast majority of people suggesting these RTS features wouldn't actually enjoy them
Yeah, everyone want's new features, and when they are implemented the rage takes the forum. I'd love to do more and deal with many many other events.
30 tribals appearing at the edge of the map, or pirate drop pods crashing down into my garden, or giant hungry insects bursting up through the cave floor is enough of a surprise for me.
@Negocromm
"yeah so we would have to be always scouting the edges of the map, refreshing enemies on the numbers tab and so on, would totally fit in with the rest of rimworld's gameplay"
Sure, you might have to be more vigilant, you might have to pay more attention to certain aspects of the game, but your making it sound much worse than it would be. Your first points were that you would have to constantly be scouting the edges of the map, (I'll go over the no alert for a new raid option, then the option to turn off hostile raid alerts.) but with sieges, normal raids and sappers it already makes it less likely to happen. On top of that I said "Maybe have fewer people in them or something like that to balance it out." meaning that they would be worse than normal raids in some way, with the only thing that they would have over other raids being that you wouldn't know that they were attacking. Even more, you would only have to check your borders every few days due to raids only happening every few days. (3-5 in my experience with a few oddballs every now and then.)
Now to the option that --> you <-- can toggle turn on when you create a new colony is not meant to be on by default, its meant for a small group of people who would enjoy it, not everyone.
Your second point was that it wouldn't fit in with the rest of rimworld's gameplay. ('would totally fit in with the rest of rimworld's gameplay') It was not meant to fit in with 'rimworlds gameplay' it was meant as a curve-ball that you were not expecting, a surprise. On the togglable side of things once again, if you pressed the button then you would know what you were getting yourself into. its meant for a small group that want something different from (the 100% defined) rimworld gameplay.
Now onto your last statement : "I bet that the vast majority of people suggesting these RTS features wouldn't actually enjoy them" Why would you think that? If people ask for a feature/addition the people asking for the said features/additions usually knows what they enjoy. As a matter of fact I bet that the vast majority of people suggesting these RTS features would enjoy them.
Ehh. You're arguing for an expensive "option" for those who aren't satisfied with the intended base game. I could almost see it if there was no balancing to be done, but adding what would in effect be a whole new game mode is too much to ask for.
Just ask someone to make a mod that removes the alerts. Poof, done. Anything more and we are getting into the whole stealth/Fog of War argument again. Search for FOW and you'll see that the subject has already been beat to death and this game mode is not coming to the base game.
I didn't know that balancing the the raids would be that difficult I would think that you could make the 'non-alert' raid see your colony wealth only as 80% of the actual wealth or a number like that. It may not be that easy, if not a nightmare but due to the fact I have no coding experience I couldn't say.
I'm not sure if my post made it sound like the togglable option would have been balanced, as that was not the way I intended to phrase it.
For a slapdash version, I still think a mod would be best. No sense distracting Tynan with this optional mode when he has enough to do with the real game.
Would your view point change any if the balancing part of this wasn't included?
Quote from: Fruit loops on May 07, 2016, 09:39:23 PMWould your view point change any if the balancing part of this wasn't included?
On reflection ... not really ;)
Including it as an option in the base game would imply that it was fully supported as an intended style for the game to be played, which it isn't and wouldn't be. If it
was officially added, I would want it to be done right ... well balanced, tested, and a feature that Ludeon could be proud of. Doing it
without putting in the work to do it well would be worse than not doing it at all. One zebra's opinion.
Listen, I'm not unsympathetic. I myself drafted up a long post a few days ago, about the potential for stealth mechanics and stealth-related encounters. Before I posted it, though, I did my research, and found the threads on Fog Of War and found out (and found myself agreeing with) why FOW-flavored content is not a good fit for this game. I abandoned the post and haven't looked back, and now I'm here urging you to essentially do the same thing ;D Friendly advice.
On one hand, this could be interesting and add a layer of difficulty to the game. As it stands now if you've got a couple mortars and a few well-trained operators a siege or "stage then attack" is fairly easy to defeat before it gets anywhere near you simply because you order your colonists to the mortars, they immediately lock onto the target, and fire.
On the other hand, the difficulty of setting something up like this probably outweighs the benefits. Sure, a fog of war could be added, but then during sieges your forced to send people out of the colony (Who could be putting out fires and tending to the wounded) to hunt down this mortar before it reduces your colony to rubble. While setting up a mortar to perform counterbattery fire could allow for indirect attempts to neutralize the enemy's artillery, but now we're getting a bit too complex.
Honestly, it might do better as a mod than a base game feature since work should probably be focused on more important things before this kind of thing is tended to at all. With a mod you've got someone else handling it so that no "work" is pulled from the base game and in the end, if enough people like it, it might end up in with minimal time wasted.
The problem with "FoW" is that it is a game-feature much easier to get for players than what Rimworld would actually profit from. Which you could call "extremely localized and contextual withholding of specific information".
btw : I'm one of the guy making rivers of text for "FoW hating" as it's called by some players who didn't understand my post.
Anyway, "Raids with no warning ?", do you actually understand the gameplay it imply ?
Did you try to imagine in your mind how it will play most of the time ?
Example :
- You are building, you sent a colonist hauling, you sent another one hunting.
(NO WARNING RAID)
- You are notified at the last moment that one/two of your colonist are now in situation that will inevitably lead to them DEAD or KIDNAPPED barring reloading an earlier save.
- You aren't "playing" anymore, you are just being punished for not being able to plan those situation
Consequence :
You'll be asking for more and more feature to "balance" the idea up to the original assumption, like patrol, AI-Fog, gradually turning Rimworld into the Millitary-Wargame of some guy.
(This is of course assuming Tynan don't know better and don't reconsider the things as a bad idea AGAIN (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=146.msg1986#msg1986))
Edit : many minor correction and rewording.
Just bumping an old topic because I believe such option is essential for a tactical and survival-oriented game like Rimworld.
I would support this as a toggleable option, much like permadeath mode.
Constantly panning the map to manually search or spamming a tab is bad enough with predators. That doesn't add much to the game aside from mundane micromanagement.
"Counterplay" that requires this kind of constant busywork is a net detriment to the game.
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on December 11, 2017, 03:06:46 PM
Constantly panning the map to manually search or spamming a tab is bad enough with predators. That doesn't add much to the game aside from mundane micromanagement.
Wrong. That adds the element of surprise, which immerses you in the game if you enjoy playing a challenging and unpredictable game. And as a result forces you to think of new better ways to defend your colony from the said unpredictable threats, such as building a wall and turrets early on and taking additional measures like restricting the access of your colonists to the "unprotected" zones. This would also make a use of those colonists that aren't good at anything other than the combat skills, you'd use them as scouts/guards instead that would replace the warning system but in a much more realistic and fun way than it is currently implemented. Imagine this for a moment: you could build a small "guard post" on the outskirts of your colony, with a bed for the scout/guard and some basic supplies so he can live there on his own. As soon as he starts shooting at something you'd hear the noise of shooting and go check on that guard post to see what's going on, if it's a small threat like a rabid animal then the guard would probably be capable to deal with it on his own, but if it's a raiding party then well, he'd better retreat quickly back to the base and meanwhile you'd prepare your other colonists for a fight. To me personally, this sounds a lot more fun and realistic than just getting a warning 10 mins before I actually get raided as if I magically have an AWACS flying over the colony and detecting all those threats...
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on December 11, 2017, 03:06:46 PM
"Counterplay" that requires this kind of constant busywork is a net detriment to the game.
Again, you're looking at it from a very one-sided point of view. Obviously, if you're more into playing with Phoebe Chillax and peacefully breeding muffalos on the lowest difficulty such a feature would indeed be a "net detriment" to your game. Which is exactly why it would have to be an optional feature, like someone two posts above said. This wouldn't require you to play with this feature, but at the same time give us, the players who enjoy realism and challenge, a good way to make our game even more fun than it already is. Sounds like a win-win to me.
I would say this should just be a modded option as most players would ignore the option and it would just be more work for the developers with little benefit for the whole of the game. Also where would this option fit in, in either the scenario editor or options menu. It definitely would not fit in the options menu, and in the scenario editor at first glance it doesn't even look like a difficult handy cap.