I brought this up to see if others were having the same issue on Steam, and of course, got the litany of condescending know-it-alls that have played the game for a week and insisted on screen shots to prove what I'd told them.
I have a base with eight 6x5 rooms and a small eating area and it's double walled inside a mountain. During "warm" periods of 90 plus, one cooler can cool to 70 degrees with no problems. Vented rooms are even at 70-71 degrees.
Two coolers set to -100 or similar during a heat wave that gets to 124 degrees, and suddenly I cant get the interior temperature down under 110, and it normally hovers about 115 or so during the heat wave.
Coolers are both set up properly. The area near the outside is double walled to insulate. I know the coolers are set up properly because I've used both independently and they work fine when there isn't a "heat wave."
I doubt that the intent of a heatwave is to have five to ten coolers. That seems excessive and completely unrealistic.
Other colonies I've had with bigger bases have had no issues.
My question is that is it not the actual temperature, but the event of the "heat wave" that makes a change? When it's normally hot, I have no issues. But when there is a "heat wave," suddenly the issues appear.
Quote from: Plasmatic on August 15, 2016, 04:18:27 PM
The hotter it is outside, the harder the cooler has to work to get rid of the excess heat from the room.
Did you even read what I wrote? Doesn't sound like it.
Do you have walls against your mountain walls or is it just bare rock? "Caves" will become the same temperature as the surrounding mountain/outside.
Quote from: Tynan on August 06, 2016, 05:18:23 PM
I did find there was actually a bug in cave temperatures in Alpha 14. It made the cave temperatures be the same as the outside.
Well, each cooler can only cool "so much".
It all depends on 3 variables:
1. How much space there is to cool
2. How much coolers there are
3. How much wall tiles connect the inner rooms with the outer world (and how thick they are)
If you have only few coolers (2 coolers are what I use on my fridge, with 9*7 tiles and surrounded by double walls), a large base to cool and lots of thin walls that connect the inner spacxe from the outer space will result in rather poor cooling.
Or to sum it up:
The coolers try to cool the base down ... but the walls connecting to the outer world heat the base up.
It will stabilize at an equilibrium, dependant on the variables I mentioned
So, yes, you want your base cooler, then use more coolers.
Or remove some vents and replace them by walls, thereby decreasing the space that gets cooled by the coolers
(It doesn't matter how deep you set the settings btw., if the set temperature isn't reached ... the temperature you set only determines when the cooler is switched on ... therefore your coolers in your example will do the same job if you set them to -5°C, as they do with your current settings (i.e. -100°C))
Quote from: Gadg3t on August 15, 2016, 04:24:08 PM
Do you have walls against your mountain walls or is it just bare rock? "Caves" will become the same temperature as the surrounding mountain/outside.
Quote from: Tynan on August 06, 2016, 05:18:23 PM
I did find there was actually a bug in cave temperatures in Alpha 14. It made the cave temperatures be the same as the outside.
For the most part, it's bare rock.
And I thought mountains were suppose to be cooler inside.
Regardless, as I wrote, it can be hot outside (90-100) and not be in a heatwave, and one cooler will keep it at 70-71 without a problem.
Once a "heat wave" hits, even at night when it's in the 80s and 90s, the mountain stays the same temperature.
Quote from: Tynan on August 06, 2016, 05:18:23 PM
I did find there was actually a bug in cave temperatures in Alpha 14. It made the cave temperatures be the same as the outside.
Ah....so, should I put walls on the outside of the mountain? Or does that cause the bug?
Also, I have no issues unless there is a heat wave which is very strange.
I would try covering the bare rock inside your base with walls and see if that helps.
I don't believe heat wave does anything to the efficiency of coolers, more than likely (and I could totally be wrong) i think it would be a issue with temperature equalization with vents and mountain temps. Both which may have bugs at the moment. (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=22655.msg243351#msg243351)
Yeah I think it might be your rock walls. I have a freezer that's surrounded by steel walls and two coolers were able to keep a fairly large room at around 20-30 degrees during a 110 degree heat wave.
Coolers are effected by the temperature difference between the side they are trying to cool, and the side that is heating up. Thus, if you have a cooler wear the hot side vents into a closed area, the hot side will get very hot, and the cool side will not cool very much. This is why venting the hot side is important. If, the heat wave is making the hot side very hot, even with good venting, the coolers will be much less efficient. It will be like venting into the closed room.
Quote from: christhekiller on August 15, 2016, 04:50:18 PM
Yeah I think it might be your rock walls. I have a freezer that's surrounded by steel walls and two coolers were able to keep a fairly large room at around 20-30 degrees during a 110 degree heat wave.
I'll give it a try. Thanks.
Quote from: Darth Fool on August 15, 2016, 05:01:49 PM
Coolers are effected by the temperature difference between the side they are trying to cool, and the side that is heating up. Thus, if you have a cooler wear the hot side vents into a closed area, the hot side will get very hot, and the cool side will not cool very much. This is why venting the hot side is important. If, the heat wave is making the hot side very hot, even with good venting, the coolers will be much less efficient. It will be like venting into the closed room.
Once again, please actually read the post if you're going to comment. It's not a functional question. I know the coolers are working properly.
I clearly said that the coolers work normally when it's hot but with no heat wave.
I don't have problems with heaters on ice sheet and I don't have problems with a/c on desert. It just needs more during a cold snap or heatwave.
And I absolutely did not like what you said in the OP about people being "know it alls" for asking for screenshots.
In fact, I'd like to see some screenshots of your setup, specially because you mentioned using vents.
If you CBA to post screenshots, why should anyone else BA to try and help you?
Quote from: zandadoum on August 15, 2016, 07:00:20 PM
I don't have problems with heaters on ice sheet and I don't have problems with a/c on desert. It just needs more during a cold snap or heatwave.
And I absolutely did not like what you said in the OP about people being "know it alls" for asking for screenshots.
In fact, I'd like to see some screenshots of your setup, specially because you mentioned using vents.
If you CBA to post screenshots, why should anyone else BA to try and help you?
I couldn't care less what you like. Feel free not to help.
Especially considering you didn't bother reading the entire post. Or you didn't comprehend it.
I clearly said that the cooling works fine when it's hot, and it doesn't work when there is a "heat wave" incident. That means everything is working properly normally.
Once again, feel free to read the entirety of a post. I'm not looking for help regarding my setup. It's completely fine. The issue is when the "heat wave" event occurs.
I believe what the other posters are trying to say is that cooling may work similar to this: if outside temperature is 90 and your target temp is -20 than by difference your trying to cool a large gap. However if the outside temp raises by 10 degree to 100 it is similar to lowering target to -40 or -50. In short your cooler compresses exhaust temp to let's say 250 degrees. As outside temperature rises, the gap between outside temp and cooler exhaust temp shorten and efficiency lowers drastically.
Another point to consider is that a heat wave may effect temperature differently. When hear waves are not in effect, inside temp and mountain temp may be regated by simple convection between the walls and mountain rock. However a great wave may raise global base temperature of everything including inside temp. This could explain your issue because by comparison the great wave may be adding +20 to +30 degrees to every single room and wall.
I'm just making conjecture here as I'm not good with the coding or decompiling so I cannot tell you the base game mechanics, only my personal observations based on gameplay.
Final thoughts. Please do not get defensive because others tell you their opinion of your problem. Also please understand that they are taking time out of their day to help you. Just because you do not get the answer you want doesn't mean they are wrong. They experience the same game as you do and so it is illogical for you to be the only one with this mechanic.
Yeah. Pics would help. Are the A/C directly venting outside, or into a room? If it's a room, outside might be 20 in both Hot and Heat Wave cases, but the room they are ventung into might be hotter in the Heat Wave case.
Quote from: nuschler22 on August 15, 2016, 07:40:26 PM
Quote from: zandadoum on August 15, 2016, 07:00:20 PM
I don't have problems with heaters on ice sheet and I don't have problems with a/c on desert. It just needs more during a cold snap or heatwave.
And I absolutely did not like what you said in the OP about people being "know it alls" for asking for screenshots.
In fact, I'd like to see some screenshots of your setup, specially because you mentioned using vents.
If you CBA to post screenshots, why should anyone else BA to try and help you?
I couldn't care less what you like. Feel free not to help.
Well, seems obvious to me now who the "know it all" here is: you
Post screenshots or GTFO
You're probably embarrassed to post them because it would show a horrible messed up setup which would proof that you actually have no idea what you're doing.
What I think is that putting gasoline on a fire doesn't help. This thread should be locked.
Cannibar, please don't back seat moderate. If someone is causing trouble just use the "Report to moderator" button.
Everyone else, calm down behave. And refresh yourselves on the forum rules (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=122.0) before you continue posting.
From my experience from real-life, ACs become less efficient at extreme outside temperatures. This is because for an AC to operate, it has to be cooled efficiently (fan blowing over radiator). If the heat-wave temperature isn't cold enough to cool down the radiator, the AC reaches a plateau and can't decrease the temperature further. Therefore my opinion is that the game's mechanics are pretty spot-on. :)
Quote from: Praeses on August 17, 2016, 06:23:27 AM
From my experience from real-life, ACs become less efficient at extreme outside temperatures. This is because for an AC to operate, it has to be cooled efficiently (fan blowing over radiator). If the heat-wave temperature isn't cold enough to cool down the radiator, the AC reaches a plateau and can't decrease the temperature further. Therefore my opinion is that the game's mechanics are pretty spot-on. :)
I believe what the OP is saying is that the heat wave
event, not temperatures associated, seem to break the AC. For instance, if it's 40 *C on a hot summer day, the AC works fine. If it's 40 *C because of a heat wave in autumn, the AC craps out altogether. From a real world standpoint, the mechanisms of a cooler shouldn't distinguish between an unseasonably warm day (autumn heatwave) and an identical temperature which is normal for the season (hot summer day).
Thus, I agree with the OP that the behavior exhibited seems to be a bug. However, it's not a bug I've ever personally encountered; can anyone else confirm the presence of this bug?
As far as I can gather, you have 240 tiles of room space and you're trying to cool it all with only two coolers and a bunch of vents. During a heat wave.
What you need is a dedicated cooler for each room, bare minimum. How you deal with the heat exhaust is up to you, but in my own mountain bases I typically have it go along corridors until it reaches the outside.
Note also that when you are using exhaust tunnels, they can get quite hot if there's not enough outdoor space connected to them. I quite often don't want raiders or mechanoids just sauntering up the tunnels to strike deep inside the base, so I wall off an unroofed area. If I wall off too little, heat will build up in much the same way as it would if you have a campfire inside a building with only one tile of 'chimney.'
The reason why the two coolers work under ordinary circumstances is that there's a smaller temperature gradient both for heat trying to get into your base and for your cooling system trying to expel it. When the outdoors temperature gets high enough, you have much more heat incoming and cooling fails to get down to the desired temperature.
The heat wave map condition itself only adds a temperature offset which, by default, maxes out at +20C. It doesn't do anything directly to the efficiency of cooling. Source: I looked at the decompiled map condition.
Temperature equalization within mountains is a known bug. I suspect that this is interacting with the heat wave event in weird ways that cause problems which otherwise don't show up just because it's hot.
Quote from: brcruchairman on August 17, 2016, 11:56:30 AM
Quote from: Praeses on August 17, 2016, 06:23:27 AM
From my experience from real-life, ACs become less efficient at extreme outside temperatures. This is because for an AC to operate, it has to be cooled efficiently (fan blowing over radiator). If the heat-wave temperature isn't cold enough to cool down the radiator, the AC reaches a plateau and can't decrease the temperature further. Therefore my opinion is that the game's mechanics are pretty spot-on. :)
I believe what the OP is saying is that the heat wave event, not temperatures associated, seem to break the AC. For instance, if it's 40 *C on a hot summer day, the AC works fine. If it's 40 *C because of a heat wave in autumn, the AC craps out altogether. From a real world standpoint, the mechanisms of a cooler shouldn't distinguish between an unseasonably warm day (autumn heatwave) and an identical temperature which is normal for the season (hot summer day).
Thus, I agree with the OP that the behavior exhibited seems to be a bug. However, it's not a bug I've ever personally encountered; can anyone else confirm the presence of this bug?
If I got to the end of this thread's sadsack display of reading incomprehension without
somebody actually reading and understanding the post, I was going to bash my face on my desk until I was claimed by the sweet release of unconsciousness. Thank you, sir or madam, for showing that it can be done.
The rest of you should be ashamed of yourselves. Read the freaking post, don't just skim it and jump to a conclusion reinforced by the posts of some other idiot who did the same thing before you.
What happens if you build a 3rd cooler during the heatwave? Does it hit the temp. mark then? That should address if it's a bug or a capacity issue.
@nuschler22 I sympathize with you. Most responders here either did not read, or did not understand your post.
Your frustration is justified.
If you believe you have encountered a bug, please post it on the bugs subforum (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?board=11.0).
Bear in mind, we're being asked for a diagnosis of a problem that we're not able to get a first-hand look at. I'm sorry if there aren't a lot of helpful or relevant responses, but in order to give such feedback, we need to be able to duplicate the conditions with as few steps as possible.
I think I recall reading something about double-thickness walls creating problems like this in mountain bases, but my memory isn't that great. You should see if you can track that down.
Also, bug forum, yes.
Quote from: Praeses on August 17, 2016, 06:23:27 AM
From my experience from real-life, ACs become less efficient at extreme outside temperatures. This is because for an AC to operate, it has to be cooled efficiently (fan blowing over radiator). If the heat-wave temperature isn't cold enough to cool down the radiator, the AC reaches a plateau and can't decrease the temperature further. Therefore my opinion is that the game's mechanics are pretty spot-on. :)
That's not how it works. First, ACs don't have radiators.
And, as I've said, actually living in the desert where I have been in 120 plus degree heat, it's not realistic that an area that can be cooled by X number of coolers suddenly needs Y number of coolers to cool the same area.
They cooler performs the same function, it just goes on for a longer duration.
Quote from: ThreeMartiniLaunch on August 17, 2016, 08:34:33 PM
@nuschler22 I sympathize with you. Most responders here either did not read, or did not understand your post.
Your frustration is justified.
But you didn't see a screen shot! Lol.
Thanks. :)
Quote from: MarvinKosh on August 17, 2016, 12:03:49 PM
As far as I can gather, you have 240 tiles of room space and you're trying to cool it all with only two coolers and a bunch of vents. During a heat wave.
What you need is a dedicated cooler for each room, bare minimum. How you deal with the heat exhaust is up to you, but in my own mountain bases I typically have it go along corridors until it reaches the outside.
Note also that when you are using exhaust tunnels, they can get quite hot if there's not enough outdoor space connected to them. I quite often don't want raiders or mechanoids just sauntering up the tunnels to strike deep inside the base, so I wall off an unroofed area. If I wall off too little, heat will build up in much the same way as it would if you have a campfire inside a building with only one tile of 'chimney.'
The reason why the two coolers work under ordinary circumstances is that there's a smaller temperature gradient both for heat trying to get into your base and for your cooling system trying to expel it. When the outdoors temperature gets high enough, you have much more heat incoming and cooling fails to get down to the desired temperature.
The heat wave map condition itself only adds a temperature offset which, by default, maxes out at +20C. It doesn't do anything directly to the efficiency of cooling. Source: I looked at the decompiled map condition.
It doesn't explain why it couldn't cool at night during a heat wave when the temperature was fairly normal (80s).
I won't ask for a screenshot since you seem morally opposed to providing the minimum that would help people diagnose your problem. So instead, I will ask you, do you have a savegame?
Quote from: nuschler22 on August 18, 2016, 07:00:22 AM
But you didn't see a screen shot! Lol.
I don't think you understand how hard it is to visualize your setup just based on your description. We have never seen your base, we have no idea what part is up, what is around it, if a vent is blocked somewhere etc.
If people are missing (in this case visual) information they fill in the blanks, then draw a conclusion. That's what humans do. Only a poor communicator blames miscommunication purely on his audience.
Quote from: nuschler22 on August 18, 2016, 07:04:25 AM
It doesn't explain why it couldn't cool at night during a heat wave when the temperature was fairly normal (80s).
I think that with cave temperatures being bugged, it means that having a base inside a mountain is like being right under a big old storage heater. I don't know for sure, Tynan would probably know.
Well, I had the same problem, twice now in the same game.
as you can see in my screenshot, I have double constructed walls to the outside, and single constructed walls against the rock.
There are all three roof types ( constructed, thin rock, overhead mountain ) and my cooler totally went on the fritz
once the heatwave hit.
It was so bad that even when it cooled down outside or in the rest of the base, the heat in the kitchen remained up.
( 40°C in the base, between 30°C and 40°C outside and 40°C to 50° in the kitchen )
This kept this way even after the heatwave was over.
I admit I experiment with lots of mod ( 70 atm. ) but when this happened none of the mods where temperature related nor did I have some since I started the game.
I have some now, but nothing happened so far, and since winter is coming it will be a while till next summer.
If it's mountain or roof related, I will gladly employ roofbombs to fix this :D
[attachment deleted by admin - too old]
Quote from: SpaceDorf on August 18, 2016, 06:11:28 PM
Well, I had the same problem, twice now in the same game.
as you can see in my screenshot, I have double constructed walls to the outside, and single constructed walls against the rock.
There are all three roof types ( constructed, thin rock, overhead mountain ) and my cooler totally went on the fritz
once the heatwave hit.
It was so bad that even when it cooled down outside or in the rest of the base, the heat in the kitchen remained up.
( 40°C in the base, between 30°C and 40°C outside and 40°C to 50° in the kitchen )
This kept this way even after the heatwave was over.
I admit I experiment with lots of mod ( 70 atm. ) but when this happened none of the mods where temperature related nor did I have some since I started the game.
I have some now, but nothing happened so far, and since winter is coming it will be a while till next summer.
If it's mountain or roof related, I will gladly employ roofbombs to fix this :D
Thanks for providing a screenshot. I though double walls meant two rings of single walls with walking space between. I wasn't picturing a literal double thinkness wall.
I will try in my mountain base load to recreate the problem and check back in.
Well and I just noticed on the screenshot, that I lied and forgot to replace the eastern wall with constructed walls ..
-- edit --
also the southern walls .. I meant to do that .. I swear.
Quote from: cultist on August 18, 2016, 10:09:03 AM
Quote from: nuschler22 on August 18, 2016, 07:00:22 AM
But you didn't see a screen shot! Lol.
I don't think you understand how hard it is to visualize your setup just based on your description. We have never seen your base, we have no idea what part is up, what is around it, if a vent is blocked somewhere etc.
If people are missing (in this case visual) information they fill in the blanks, then draw a conclusion. That's what humans do. Only a poor communicator blames miscommunication purely on his audience.
There's absolutely no visual part that helps your learn that the problem isn't functional. No matter how many times I explain that the setup works fine without the heat wave, and the coolers work as intended, you're going to insist on not comprehending the issue.
Quote from: Darth Fool on August 18, 2016, 09:47:23 AM
I won't ask for a screenshot since you seem morally opposed to providing the minimum that would help people diagnose your problem. So instead, I will ask you, do you have a savegame?
Stop being insulting.
Once again a screen shot will do absolutely nothing.
If you can't comprehend it's not a funticional problem as I've explained numerous times before, you're not coming at it the right way and therefore you're of no help.
And unless you're willing to download all the mods I have, load them in the specific order I have them in, it's a moot point.
Plus I've started a new base since then and reuse my saves because they're labeled for specific events.
Once you realize that the setup works absolutely fine and cools as intended when a heat wave event isn't present, perhaps then you'll realize that a screen shot won't help the issue one bit.
Just FYI I corrected the issue by using a mod that provides for a more even temperature inside a mountain. This is also more realistic as temperatures are stable inside mountains in real life.
Issue solved through mod.
I'm glad you managed to solve your problem, nuschler22. :)
However, for future reference I would like to add that screenshots and savegames, even in cases such as this, are still helpful in confirming that it's a bug; if we all knew exactly why it wasn't working, then finding a fix would be trivial. Many of us are assuming that you're smart; if you can't find the problem, it's probably not something obvious. It's also certainly not something you've checked, otherwise (I hope!) you'd let us know what was breaking your coolers during heat wave events. So when people ask for screenshots, they're asking to see the raw data in case they notice something you DIDN'T consider. Perhaps there's a bug where having a cooking stove next to a cooler breaks it. Maybe the conjunction of a heat wave event and wooden flooring under a mountain deactivates coolers. We don't know. A screenshot would let us recreate the problem as thoroughly as we can, and raise the chances that we could reproduce the bug you've found, and perhaps even figure out why it's going on. :)
All the above said, I also totally understand your frustration; for some folk, when they ask for a screenshot they are looking for some sort of silly error like an unpowered cooler or huge temperature gradients. It's frustrating to feel like you're not being heard, and like people are providing solutions to a problem you don't have (e.g., saying "get more coolers to deal with more heat" rather than saying, "Huh. With identical temperatures, a cooler in a heat wave event doesn't seem to work as well as one without said event.") can be really irritating. So I'd like to offer my condolences for your frustration, and apologies if I added to it. Fortunately, it seems like you've found a solid fix that works for you. Would you be willing to tell us what mod you used? Perhaps if someone else has the same problem, they can find their solution here. :)
Must be one of ESM https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=16098.0:
Quote from: kaptain_kavern on August 19, 2016, 07:06:18 AM
Must be one of ESM https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=16098.0:
That one actually gave me more trouble than not having it.
As did the DnD mod.
To say something about the screenshots too.
It is an absolute non-issue to make and upload a screenshot.
And for me it is a Challenge to the guy who asked for it.
Look at it ! Look and tell me where I did wrong.
If he can prove it was my error I gladly accept and hopefully learned a fix.
If he can't prove it is my fault, I not only presented a situation where a bug is present but also gave detailed instructions for how to replicate the situation.
So back to my screenshot ? Any suggestions what could be the source of the problem ?
Well, cookers do put out heat when they're being used. I don't know if it's enough to counteract the cooling.
The airlocks are kinda small. You want there to be some time between the doors opening and closing for passing colonists. Also, small airlocks experience more variation or so I've observed.
The door on the left seems to be held open. I'm assuming there's another door beyond that.
Quote from: MarvinKosh on August 19, 2016, 09:27:56 AM
Well, cookers do put out heat when they're being used. I don't know if it's enough to counteract the cooling.
The airlocks are kinda small. You want there to be some time between the doors opening and closing for passing colonists. Also, small airlocks experience more variation or so I've observed.
The door on the left seems to be held open. I'm assuming there's another door beyond that.
They are autodoors, not to be held open, its the same setup on both ends, I think somebody just went through but is not seen on the screenshot.
Maybe the airlock should be longer, but it is still the same situation as the op describes.
The whole setup works fine, no matter the outside temperature. If it gets hot i dial the coolers up from -5°C to -15 which is enough to keep the room below zero. Even if its 40°C-50°C outside.
But as soon as a heatwave hits all my inside rooms, not only the kitchen, equalize with the outside temperature, without me being able to do something and even after the heatwave passes the coolers can't bring the temperature down.
Well guess what .. A cold snap just hit me and it's the same in reverse.
it is now -8°C outside, while my indoor farm still has -17°C with four heaters set to 25°C
Before you say its the path on the right, the path leads to an enclosed geothermal generator .. so from this side there should be +10°C
The farm itself is like the kitchen half under mountain, half outside and enclosed with constructed walls ( this time for real, I checked )
SO WTF ?!?
[attachment deleted by admin - too old]
At least the temperature rose by itself again, after the coldsnap was over. I did not have to build complete new heaters.
Quote from: nuschler22 on August 19, 2016, 12:52:16 AM
Just FYI I corrected the issue by using a mod that provides for a more even temperature inside a mountain. This is also more realistic as temperatures are stable inside mountains in real life.
Issue solved through mod.
Which mod did you use specifically?
Just replying to be helpful, since I know this mod that regulates mountain temperature :
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=16098.0
Once again, regarding screen shots, if you expect a screen shot or a save game even after it was explained that it's not functional, that's your issue. Not mine.
Same games as well considering the amount of mods everyone uses.
Feel free not to argue and skip topics where people don't provide them instead of incessantly and immaturity demanding they be provided.
I have no need to prove that my setup is working fine. And cools normally when a heat wave isn't in effect. If youre not comfortable that I'm telling the truth, then that's your issue. Not mine. Don't like it? You can easily not provide help and go help others that fit your requirement for help.
If you don't accept that, you have the ability to move on.
Be mature and stop constantly insisting you get your way. I'm not demanding your help. And, quite frankly, if you truly believe a screen shot or save would have helped in this situation than you're misunderstanding the issue or refusing to fully compressed it.
nuschler22, I feel like there's a fundamental disconnect somewhere. At least for me personally, I feel that I've grasped your meaning. To verify this, I'll repeat what I heard, and you can tell me where I'm wrong.
The problem you presented is this: There are two situations. In both situations, the base setup is identical. In situation A) You have an outside temp of, for example, 110 *F. In Situation A, your coolers keep your fridge well below freezing. In Situation B) You have an outside temp of, for example, 110 *F during a heat wave. In Situation B, your coolers fail to keep the fridge cool, and its interior temperature is well above freezing. In all other respects the situations are identical. Is this correct?
I'm also hearing that you solved it with a mod. Would you be willing to verify ThisIsMe007's presented mod for others experiencing a similar issue?
I'm going to go ahead and proceed under the (possibly totally false) assumption that I understood you correctly. I'm also going to explain why I feel that asking for screenshots is totally okay. At least personally speaking, I'm interested in this not to try to help, as you've already solved the issue, but as a matter of curiosity. I'd like to know what happened for my own gratification. :) It's completely true that you're under no obligation whatsoever to provide materials; you owe me nothing. However, it would be my hope that you'd oblige me and others as a matter of courtesy and friendly camaraderie. Again, it's not something that you're obligated to do, just something we're asking for.
I'd also like to point out that there are many in this thread who have NOT demanded screenshots. Asked for, yes. We're allowed to ask; that's part of being a civilized society. You're correct in that you're not obligated to provide, also as per civilized society, but it sounds like you take the requests as a personal affront, which, at least for me, is not how they're intended. Just as you aren't obligated to provide requested information, please also consider that we're just as justified in our request for more information as you are in declining to provide it. I personally feel somewhat attacked but the implications of immaturity and pushiness, particularly when I've endeavored to be as reasonable and understanding as I can. I'm also completely aware that my feelings of this may be completely baseless. Nonetheless, communication is two parts, the message sent and the message received; I feel that, even with me overreacting, you may find the information of how your posts are being received useful in your future writings.
I'd also like to address what I feel is a misunderstanding here regarding the purpose of screenshots. You said in your post, "I have no need to prove that my setup is working fine." You are totally correct, but that's not what the screenshots are for; they're for curious (and possibly annoying) little monkeys like myself to try to replicate your problem, by replicating everything we can, including your setup, and then experimenting to see if we can find which combination of factors are causing it. For instance, you've stated that you're running many mods, but perhaps the problem can be replicated without mods. If that's the case, it's something the devs need to know about. If not, then it's still interesting, and something modders may wish to know.
Finally, I have one last thing I'd like to leave you with. You originally posted about this issue. I'm curious what your purpose was in doing so; were you seeking help? If so, why not try to help people help you, for instance by giving them the data they need to try to replicate your issue and then experiment with it? If you were trying to make the community aware that there was an issue for their own information, why not provide complete information, instead of only one of several critical pieces?
Most likely, you posted for reasons totally unknown to me; after all, you're a complicated individual with all the motives, thoughts, and preferences thereof, and if I assumed to be able to know you from a dozen posts on the internet, I'd be a moron. So I won't assume; instead I'll reiterate that, at least I personally, am coming at this from a spirit of fellowship, curiosity, and compassion. If what I'm asking is truly that unreasonable, then I'd beg you to explain to me why it is; my own experience of posting screenshots and save games has been that it takes scant minutes, but again, you may have a very different experience than I do. Furthermore, I may be missing something fundamental about why you don't want to post screenshots; please tell me, nuschler22, what am I missing?
I humbly hope for a response, good sir/madam. This situation is something I don't fully understand, and so your assistance, should you chose to render it, would be much appreciated.
Quote from: nuschler22 on August 20, 2016, 12:17:34 AM
I have no need to prove that my setup is working fine. And cools normally when a heat wave isn't in effect. If youre not comfortable that I'm telling the truth, then that's your issue. Not mine. Don't like it? You can easily not provide help and go help others that fit your requirement for help.
1) you're the one that came here asking for help. Bug report forum is that way ->
2) if you ask for help, you need to provide whatever the helpful people ask for
3) you are NOT God. You don't know anything. You coming here for help is the very proof of this
4) what you THINK is working properly means nothing. You might be wrong. You probably are.
5) reasons for people asking for screenshots: you not explaining very well, language barriers due lot of nationalities, etc etc etc.
6) if you're not willing to give, what others need to help you better, then just GTFO and don't make post at all
7) I have tried to understand your post as well as possible (ex: normal clima 40°c all works, heatwave 40°c coolers don't work) and in a vanilla game I haven't been able to reproduce the problem.
So either you provide better info like screenshots or you GTFO to the bug forum. Ang guess what Tynan will ask you for: savefile or screenshots. If you're not willing to provide those and there is a real bug, it will NEVER be fixed.
Please keep it civil, guys, and save your energies for attacking the problem, not the messenger. ;)
Zandadoum is correct, however, that if this is a bug, we need to reproduce it.
Take a screenshot for your own reference, backup your modsconfig.xml and make a new game. Ideally, try the unstable A15 branch on Steam if you can. Use Advanced setup to start at the hottest time of year instead of the default.
Use God mode and the debug tools to carve out and equip a similar if not identical layout.
Save and then start the heat wave event using the debug tools. Observe the performance of the cooling system.
If this reproduces the problem then you have a vanilla save that Tynan and/or one of the testers can load up to confirm the problem and investigate it further.
nuschler22 doesnt post anymore he said in a other topic.
Quote from: nuschler22 on August 20, 2016, 10:47:32 AM
This will be my last post on this forum. And my glowing review in Steam will turn to a negative.
*well hello* said the table to the forehead *nice to meat you again .. and again .. and again .. *
you know what, I feel sorry for that dude, but I'll do it.
Image him playing the game and then sees 2 pawns with the gay trait doing some lovin....Maybe it's me but that's hilarious.
Well played Tynan!
I restarted my world ( had the seed and coordinates ) in vanilla and built the setup in the screenshot.
1.) one five by five freezer outside ( should have been the same size, but did not matter much )
2.) one six by six freezer outside and under mountain
3.) one six by six freezer under thin and thick mountain
4.) one six by six freezer under mostly thick mountain with constructed walls.
end of spring, a day with 38°C outside i hit the heatwave. Temperatures went up to 52°C-55°C
and the freezers warmed up. 2 the fastest with 12° - 14° after two days, 1 a bit slower to 12°( well size matters )
underground took a lot longer to warm up to 5° and there was no difference between 3 and 4
The temperatures changed all the time when the outside temperature changed, so no direct temperature equalization here, like it occured in the other descriptions.
I changed the temperature settings of 1 and 2 two -25°C but both were working at full capacity allready so the temperature in the room was not affected. A plausible reason for the two mountain rooms staying cooler is, that the adjectant indoor room was 10°C cooler ( 40° ) than the outside with 50°
After four days of heatwave room 3 got warmer than room 4 but only 3-5 degree. I think this was because of the longer outside wall
During the heatwave temperatures dropped under 40°C on a rainy night and all coolers, except Nr.2 were able to drop their rooms below zero. Nr.2 alternated between -1° and +1°
After the heatwave temperatures dropped to 25°C and all coolers worked normally again.
So either it was a bug in conjunction with a mod, or my kitchen layout sucked, I will let the game run for a while to check what happens on natural hot days.
In conclusion, I think I will move my kitchen completely underground and install a cooled room in front as a kitchen.
P.S.
( the seed is deathsentence 300x225, the coordinates are 25.24° / 29.87° 300x300 , check it out, its awesome )
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Because Size Restrictions .. here comes the savegame.
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No answer yet, to bad :(
Well the good news is, the reworked kitchen+freezer works pretty well so far in a 50°C heatwave.
Its still -2 inside without fiddling with the thermostat.
The setup is now stacked, the freezer is 5x10 cooled by two coolers set to -5, blowing the heat into the kitchen, having no connection to the outside at all.
The kitchen itself has two coolers set to -15 blowing outside. The Outside Temp is 50°C, the Kitchen is 34°C and the Freezer has -2°C
This makes me very happy.
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I had the exact same issue as the op.
I noticed my food was going rotten and thought hmm strange, so I checked the fuel to the generator, fine, checked the roof and conduits, also fine. There was no issue where my heat was venting because it was all going outside into an open paddock.
I tried installing many additional coolers and the room temp would still not drop enough to freeze food.
After googling for bugs and noticing this thread I carved away the remaining six mountain blocks which encased one corner of my building. Just by removing those blocks and filing in the one corner block I could now access with the mountain blocks gone immediately reduced the temperate in my cooling room.
There must be a bug with the way heat dissipates if your structures are touching mountain walls. Can provide screenshots or game save files if people also disbelieve me...
Quote from: jjcondon on September 27, 2016, 07:51:19 PM
There must be a bug with the way heat dissipates if your structures are touching mountain walls. Can provide screenshots or game save files if people also disbelieve me...
Thank you, JJcodon! That's very useful information. And awww, nobody disbelieves you! :) We had been asking for screenshots from the vacant Nuscler not because we thought he was lying, but because we wanted to know more! For instance, if he had the same problem as you (mountain tiles) we may have been able to get him an answer faster! :) No YOU, you were wonderful and found your own fix, then blessed us by sharing it; now, if we ever encounter similar problems, we can think of you and say, "Hm, are there mountain tiles in my freezer wall?" 'Cause that's a very useful, specific thing to look for.
You've helped a lot of people here today, JJCodon. Thank you! :)
So needing four coolers set to about -70°C isn't supposed to be necessary? That struck me as weird all the time. Set them to -20° and they can't cope with the heat, but go lower and they suddenly keep the things frozen, although they were already at maximum power draw.
Coolers don't overcool. They're either on, in which case they'll cool exactly the right amount to bring the room to the correct temperature, up to their capacity limit, or idle, in which case they don't cool at all. So setting their target temperature lower than they can possibly meet will help get the most cooling out of them when they have excess capacity to "save up" for the times when they fall short (e.g. when the freezer door is open), but at the cost of preventing them from ever idling. So you should only see a significant difference between setting them to -70 instead of -20 when they're right on the edge of being sufficient, or for very small rooms that lose most of their cooling between cooler cycles.
jjcondon: it would be good if you can share a save (from before you replaced the mountain tiles). It's not supposed to work that way, and it's much easier to find the cause of bugs when you have an example to look at.
Or you can use multiple coolers with different temperature settings. On a warm map my freezers have three coolers, one set to -4, -5, and -6. When it's cold one is enough to keep the room frozen. When it warms up the other two kick in to provide additional support.
Haven't read the whole thread, but I had a similar issue. Five coolers at full blast were struggling massively to bring the temperature down. Some time later I did some renovations. Where before the freezer walls were made of a mix of steel, slate, granite, sandstone and wood, they were converted to full slate (inside walls) and granite (outside walls). No more cooling problems during heat waves, and in general it was staying cold much better.
Don't know what the problem was. First guess is that the steel walls - which were present on the map before I arrived - weren't insulating properly. Second guess is, I dunno, wood doesn't work well? Or some very obscure error, I guess.