So I figure there should be some (complex, I guess) way for the game to assess your entire layout and do something with that. Give your pawns bonuses or whatever.
The problem is that pure efficiency is the driving force of most/all colony designs, which makes all designs a bit... well.. boring. Always one very well planned complex with the fridge being right next to the dining room and the butchery right next to that, a huge workshop area attached to the store-room etc etc etc. Done that a million times. Every colony I make looks the exact same due to efficiency of travel and defense.
But what about a "town"? or a "village"? with individual houses/huts/tents, with streets and some space between them? a workshop here, a common dining room there? A large central garden where people can chillax, etc.
Swear to god I've never, in even one screenshot, seen a layout like that. Maybe some few people tried that just for aesthetics, but it's obviously not as efficient, and so you could say the game 'punishes' you for that kinda stuff. You also need to have all your wires exposed and lots of other problems.
Seriously, I'd like to see a tribal village that looks even a bit like a tribal village.
Now I get that this is hard but if anyone has any idea how to do that, do think out loud here.
(some directions to go on maybe:
- ... fires generally are VERY VERY catching, and fire temperatures indoors are enough to melt steel beams and collapse buildings. One of the points of streets is to try to stop fires ripping through an entire town. And even then it wasn't very safe. Perhaps big complexes should be very non fire-safe and fires should be a lot more dangerous when indoors
- Constructed walls must also burn at a certain temperature. Or at least collapse. That's how it works in real life, because a wall isn't just a slab of stone generally
- Smoke inhalation as a fatal condition. Also a serious danger if you don't space out a little
- More danger of disease spread
- People having to be close together is generally a recipe for nerves, fighting and chaos
- that's all I got
Also would be great to see 'auto-generated' towns on the map have a layout that actually resembles a town.
One way that this could be fixed might be to have Colonists need to move a certain amount every day. If colonists don't move a certain amount each day, maybe the muscles in their legs atrophe, and they move slower or something. And maybe having colonists fill their walking quota all within the same building could be another way of causing the cabin fever moodlet. Maybe treadmills could be some later game research job that would allow colonists to fulfill their walking quota without actually having to go anywhere, thus removing this negative affect for later game content.
Note that the point here wouldn't be to make game breaking disadvantages to big complexes. You still could make them live in a big complex, but you'd have to figure out ways to get them to move around on their off hours.
That's my take, anyways.
Yeah that's the idea indeed. Not to make big complex not viable. Just to make 'travel time efficiency' not the single only factor involved in dictating colony layout.
dwarf fortress gets around this by simply having the dwarfs move blazingly fast so it doesn't really matter, you can build for aesthetics or whimsy or whatever. But I don't think that'd work for rimworld.
I think the threat of hugely hot indoor fires collapsing brick walls and suffocating everyone inside might just work.
Regardless, my next colony is going to look like an actual colony, just for the fun of it.
Most of my layouts are sort of like what you're describing but I'm not sure if I am understanding what you're looking for. Mine are usually a grid-like set up of 13x13 building plots with 5 tile wide roads in between each building for fire breaks (2 paved concrete tiles with 3 slate tiles in the center to act as a sidewalk and road) Those building plots are typically isolated, but if the need arises for a larger space I can join two adjacent plots together to form a 13x31 size plot for things like a dining hall and kitchen and freezer, or a spacious chicken coop, or a large farm.
I used to have entire areas dedicated to solar farms and battery banks, but due to the explosive nature of large battery banks I tend to keep all of my solar panels attached directly to buildings these days, and build them into the layout as needed. This can sometimes lead to mis-shapen buildings that break the grid pattern, so I'm still experimenting with how to best achieve this because I have gotten very comfortable with 13x13 buildings and don't want to adjust all of my room planning.
Here's an example that I threw together with God Mode to simulate roughly what I'm talking about, with some items added to relevant areas like my fridge to give it a lived-in look (despite the complete lack of items in the warehouse) I don't have any real screenshots because I tend to delete all of my save games so I'm always starting fresh. I also didn't bother trying to remove the mud but in a real game that would be something I'd work toward. And the dining hall is backwards, I like to keep the main entrance near the grow zones, but again I threw it together so the careful planning isn't really there. It's more of an example of the basic building types I tend to stick to and the overall look and feel I go for.
http://imgur.com/a/Ci36q
Shizmo that's a beautiful camp and exactly what would be very awesome to see as AI generated towns.
But nobody builds like that for real in rimworld. even if someone tells you they do, they're nobody, statistically speaking. just check out rimworld screenshots.
It's impossible to properly defend, it uses all the bricks for walkways instead of walls, and it's inefficient in terms of travel times, inefficient because of the many doors that aren't safe to 'hold open', inefficient in the use of building materials (less shared walls), exposed electrical lines, inefficient because conneting the structures would make them more spacious, increasing moods (there's no incentive at all to have an outdoor space), its a deathtrap against sieges because pawns are outside... and ... well, yeah, it's just a very suboptimal layout. I could go on I think.
That's exactly why I'm posting this suggestion for consideration and development.
So up to now the ideas are simply to make indoor fires much more devastating, collapsing structures and spreading quick, smoke inhalation, and possibly, there should be some other incentives to space stuff out and create outdoor spaces. a yard area like in prison architect, etc.
But honestly I dunno how to do it so posting here for brainstorming
I disagree on a number of points raised, but part of it requires some defense and explaination on my part:
To start with I choose Slate as my road stone because it has lower defensive capabilities than Granite, which I reserve exclusively for outer walls until such time that they can be replaced with Plasteel (more than enough on a map, usually, with deep drilling) I also choose slate for roads because it's black like asphalt.
For defense the buildings themselves act as cover, allowing me to position pawns at the end of long clear corridors and shoot around corners or pop out of doors. But this is only if combat spills beyond the walls which I would have also constructed with 1 or 2 entrances at each cardinal direction (depending on how large the colony grows) these entrances are defended by a pair of turrets as well as two small rooms on both sides of the entrance with sandbag cutouts for shooters. The turrets just keep enemies from charging in, stalling until my shooters have a chance to get in position and fire at the enemy from range. I didn't include this aspect because I was focusing on a general idea but not a fully completed settlement.
Building materials aren't an issue because wood is so easily renewable, but in the later game they can be replaced with plasteel for more critical buildings.
Exposed powerlines are quite advantageous as a matter of fact, because I reduce the risk of a zrrrt event starting a fire indoors. I have, on more than one occasion, had my fire start on stone and die down relatively quickly. The downside is powerlines are flammable and can act as a fire conduit and can make your fire breaks obsolete, but fire will only crawl down the length of the powerline so it's easy to put out if it starts creeping across the road. Still, I try as often as possible for each building or set of buildings to have independant power, primarily to have smaller battery banks so zrrrt explosions are smaller.
Structures are plenty spacious as is, the dining room alone has a big space and beauty buff that has a lasting and daily affect on colonists mood. I try to make sure that area is always nice because all pawns are there every day twice a day.
Seiges are of very little concern for me, for one thing artillary is slow and inaccurate, but I usually man 4 of my own artillery from nearish to the center of town and counter seige them from the moment they arrive, putting some serious hurt on any potential seige before it can begin. If that isn't an option I assault them directly and pre emptively outside of town. Being outdoors is of very little consequence and seiges have never really been an issue, and worst case scenario I draft all non combat pawns and scatter them across town, running them away from the general direction of artillery trajectory.
There are certainly things that could be done to brute force even more efficiency but to be honest it isn't necessary, at least it hasn't been for me. Some adjacent high priority stockpiles, hauling animals, and proper management of bills and work assignments, a colony like this will run just fine.
Also this was just a sample of how I build, to give some references. My colonies are usually larger, with something like a 6x6 or 8x8 layout of building plots & roads. (I use a great deal of the space available in a stadard sized map)
This thread title is misleading. Giving advantage to spaced out colony layouts should be "giving penalties to people who don't build bases I like". Why not make suggestions that actually add a benefit to towns instead of penalties to compounds. You literally did not make a single suggestion to make towns more viable. Only compounds less. That's shoehorning. A good example of this in game is the Infestation as is. It doesn't add anything to the game. It doesn't reward any playstyle- only hinders one.
Rimworld does not need any more of this.
I'm all for viable towns. IF the towns are made viable by giving them bonuses, not by giving compounds penalties.
Quote from: JuicyPVP on January 13, 2017, 10:45:42 AM
This thread title is misleading. Giving advantage to spaced out colony layouts should be "giving penalties to people who don't build bases I like". Why not make suggestions that actually add a benefit to towns instead of penalties to compounds. You literally did not make a single suggestion to make towns more viable. Only compounds less. That's shoehorning. A good example of this in game is the Infestation as is. It doesn't add anything to the game. It doesn't reward any playstyle- only hinders one.
Rimworld does not need any more of this.
I'm all for viable towns. IF the towns are made viable by giving them bonuses, not by giving compounds penalties.
Ok, here's to help you not be so misled: the advantage of a more spaced out town is that it's not ridiculously vulnerable to fires that will spread rapidly in, and collapse large single compounds.
The disadvantage is that it's less efficient in almost everything else.
Feel free to suggest more suggestions instead of opinions. this thread is for suggestions, not opinions.
Fires don't spread from stone brick wall to stone brick wall with stome tile on the floor -_- lol. Most people have stone walls in there complexes rendering get your fire point completely mute. (And that's why wood walls get the penalty.)
I don't have any suggestion to make towns more viable because I don't care. I run several buildings. Maybe a "complex" or "campus" not a single building. But each dude ain't got his own house.
All day long you read on this forum Where people want other people's style of play nerfed... why? Why not ask for your style of play to receive a bonus? Not everyone wants a town. I find them unrealistic. I want all my stuff I have as I just crashed on to this shit rim world all in one place and easily defendable. That's just how I would do it irl. If you would do it differently, then come up with a way to make your playstyle more beneficial.
Most Sim players are going to build the most efficient base no matter what you do to try and stop them. It's part of the sim genre.
Going to give a bonus to towns by making it so that pawns benefit if their room door opens to the outside? They will just make a square/rectangle of rooms with exterior doors.
Yup. Everyone is going to build the most efficient UNDER THE RULES OF THE GAME.
If the rules of the game included more realistic fire mechanics (IE that buildings can collapse, smoke damage etc, and every material having its own burn temp), then automatically you'd be more inclined to space things out a bit.
So basically you're saying you're against making more realistic fire simulation.
My god why are everyone here so freaking dense and without ideas. got an idea? add it. Don't got one? go away. I wish I could close my threads to allow only posts from people who ADD IDEAS
If the floor is stone... and the walls are stone... and the furniture is stone... then what exactly is being lit on fire? The stone?
I added an idea: don't nerf plays types to shoehorn other playtypes.... thats a pretty solid idea actually.
https://www.quora.com/How-does-a-stone-structure-get-destroyed-by-fire
Hey can any mod delete this thread so I can repost it without the troll?
I promise to add a section at the end or at the beginning that says "If you cannot develop an idea, don't post here"
In rim world the roof is sheet steel.. there is literally no fuel to be burnt in most people's structures.
You are suggesting to nerf the common play style to suit your personal liking. That's fine. But you have to expect resistance from the 80% of players who run the play style you want nerfed... I'm not trolling you. Lol.
Or you could just build an inefficient sprawling mess that has no organization whatsoever...
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198060996877/screenshots/
Quote from: Jstank on January 13, 2017, 11:30:42 AM
Or you could just build an inefficient sprawling mess that has no organization whatsoever...
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198060996877/screenshots/
For the win.
mods, please erase this thread so I can post a new one without the troll.
Thank you.
No one is trolling you. Pointing out why your suggestions could hurt the game, or even just stating why someone dislikes your idea, is not trolling. In fact you did the same thing to the guy who wanted plasteel to be more common. . .
To be fair Light you're being overly dramatic. I've read the posts and they are suggestions and opinions, both of which are free to post on this board... Sorry brother, gotta learn to play nice.
Well I did repost it but with a heartfelt wish for commenters at the beginning of the post.
I'll always add that heartfelt wish from now on, because at least in my threads, I'd like to see people building ideas together to see how something can work, rather than a bunch of asses bitching at each other, which in my opinion is no way for a suggestions forum to work. Agreed that it isn't the 'standard' definition of trolling, but for me the worst troll is the kind that posts just words without having any idea there of how something could possibly work or just asking questions to see how to develop an idea etc.
Just the general mindset of "Ok, so this is what he suggests... I don't care if I agree or don't agree, first of all. That's not the issue. Now, let's see how his suggestion can be made to work or be expanded on", which is the mindset that I personally try to keep in the suggestions forum, given that it's the place for ideas and suggestions
I'm just trying to find the constructive ideas people. They are here, I know they are.
There's an option to lock or remove threads you own which can be found on the bottom left.
I personally do like the smoke idea. Having smoke slowly killing your pawns should you fail to evacuate them on time. Instead of the room instantly becoming hotter than the sun and roasting everyone alive.
Quote from: Lightzy on January 13, 2017, 11:11:20 AM
My god why are everyone here so freaking dense and without ideas. got an idea? add it. Don't got one? go away. I wish I could close my threads to allow only posts from people who ADD IDEAS
How hypocritical...
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=26318.msg268265#msg268265
In general you make a lot of decent suggestions lightzy but I have seen you be rude to people that you disagree with in the past as well so it strikes me as a bit hypocritical that you'd get so bent out of shape when people disagree with you.
Frankly I think debates liven things up around here, and an echo chamber isn't good for progress. Just as long as disagreements remain civil, I'm all for them. Hell I encourage them, they can open my eyes to things I hadn't considered before.
If this thread gets deleted I'm not gonna bother reposting any of my contributions because frankly I think starting a new thread is silly. It isn't going to prevent disagreement.
^ Couldn't have said it better. Spot on!!
I deleted your other thread because it was technically spam at this point. Nobody here is trolling but you and you're on that fine line that is my patience for your behaviour. This will be your last warning to calm down.
Quote from: schizmo on January 13, 2017, 04:14:55 AM
Most of my layouts are sort of like what you're describing but I'm not sure if I am understanding what you're looking for. Mine are usually a grid-like set up of 13x13 building plots with 5 tile wide roads in between each building for fire breaks (2 paved concrete tiles with 3 slate tiles in the center to act as a sidewalk and road) Those building plots are typically isolated, but if the need arises for a larger space I can join two adjacent plots together to form a 13x31 size plot for things like a dining hall and kitchen and freezer, or a spacious chicken coop, or a large farm.
I used to have entire areas dedicated to solar farms and battery banks, but due to the explosive nature of large battery banks I tend to keep all of my solar panels attached directly to buildings these days, and build them into the layout as needed. This can sometimes lead to mis-shapen buildings that break the grid pattern, so I'm still experimenting with how to best achieve this because I have gotten very comfortable with 13x13 buildings and don't want to adjust all of my room planning.
Here's an example that I threw together with God Mode to simulate roughly what I'm talking about, with some items added to relevant areas like my fridge to give it a lived-in look (despite the complete lack of items in the warehouse) I don't have any real screenshots because I tend to delete all of my save games so I'm always starting fresh. I also didn't bother trying to remove the mud but in a real game that would be something I'd work toward. And the dining hall is backwards, I like to keep the main entrance near the grow zones, but again I threw it together so the careful planning isn't really there. It's more of an example of the basic building types I tend to stick to and the overall look and feel I go for.
http://imgur.com/a/Ci36q
That's an unusually ordered setup that looks like a proper town, mine tend up to look more like a fortified village.
http://imgur.com/a/rKzwQ
Even more bunkers, sandbags and barbed wire in plans...
It did survive a massive wall of flashstorm induced fire from northeast before the wall was up, lost some barns, growing areas and residental buildings, but the streets did act as firebreaks to protect the important stuff.
Different, shorter game:
http://imgur.com/a/KTNT3
No bunkers, sandbags and barbed wire yet, but hey, at least some jerks brought me a free mortar...
Wood walls and floors? You nuts? Lol. I usually have 3-4 multi purpose buildings. But sometimes more, and rarely I'll play all dug I to a mountain.
Someone mentioned this, but the zzzrrt. Event is a big penalty for people running one big building.
As far as boosts I could only think of the one I already said- giving a bonus to pawns if their room doors lead to un roofed or outdoors zones, but that would lead to a condo style building being given most prevalent.
I like the idea of a steadily growing "fresh air" mood buff that accumulates the longer you're outside similar to toxic fallout, this encourages pawns to get out once in a while, either by walking between buildings or by not putting 100% of their lives inside of a mountain. I could see that being useful for both playstyles but it would be more useful for some than for others.
Quote from: Lightzy on January 13, 2017, 11:24:10 AM
Hey can any mod delete this thread so I can repost it without the troll?
I promise to add a section at the end or at the beginning that says "If you cannot develop an idea, don't post here"
wow. Are you a feminist? One person disagrees with you, and you call them a troll. Not only that, but you want to burn down everything just to hide the "troll's" existence.
Benefits to towns...
Okay here we go!
- I had a peaceful night's sleep! +5. No adjacent sleeping quarters, or workshops.
- Mine carts and mini trains! (for moving mats long distances)
- Your fire idea is actually good... I always wondered why stone buildings were completely flame retardant especially when stone can heat fracture and mortar destabilizes.
- +10 I have my own shop! I can keep it just the way I like! Crafters prefer to have their own workshops assigned to them (Like Beds).
There's a few benefits. Reduced disease spread might be good too.
Edit: My bases tend to end up fortified villages as well. Usually with varied building shapes and layouts. It looks a mess, but it's a pretty mess!
Towns are actually a decent way to build a fort. Hallways and and rooms can be streets and buildings just as easily, and streets and buildings with door peeking is a great way to defend a colony.
The best layout right now is probably what I've seen called the "polis" layout -- a central plaza, surrounded by workshops, with an outer rim of bedrooms, and long straight hallways as firing zones.
I looked up some quick figures. Concrete doesn't start to lose its structure till 800f+. That's really, really hot. Like... all your people can't even go In to fight the fire at that point. And thats just where it starts to lose structure, minuscule amounts. Not where it crumbles. A few sites are stating 1500c for a crumbling temp of concrete and 2000c for melting stone. The fire thing really has to do with this, which I tried to articulate, but I might not have. What fuel, in a stone buidling, will burn until the fire gets to 800f? Even If people only have a wood table and chairs... that's not heating a room to 800f. So there is a disconnect between ignition, even in a wood table/bed, and 800f where stone would start to collapse. Like- what is burning to get the room/flame that hot? It's not that they are impervious to fire- it's that getting a fire hot enough to destroy them is not very realistic if there is no substantial fuel sorce.
Also, making fires more prevalent will result in players taking the path of least resistance - which isn't a town type base. It's fire poppers. Fire poppers in every room. Is likely MUCH cheaper than spending 3-4x on building materials by no shared walls, and then needing to cool/heat everything seperate.
I like the peaceful sleep buff- no shared walls for a room type thing.
For reference to us Americans. 1500c is 2700f+ that's really hot. And 800f is 400c+. Very hot numbers.
Yeah, stone structures in this game should definitely be proof against random fires.
Maybe like concentrated energy weapons or something but that's different. And stone does take damage from charge rifles.
Tempuratures in Rimworld are capable of reaching a maximum temperature of 3632F in sealed rooms so it's certainly within the scope of possibility, the question is whether or not items will burn in a manner that this is possible. So I tested it.
In Dev mode I created my standard 13x13 wall dining hall which contains 4 long tables and 16 dining chairs, plus a light in the center. I tested with wood and plasteel, both resulted in a fire that reached the maximum room temperature, though it's worth noting that while wood reached it's maximum temperature faster due to the flammability of wood, plasteel held it's maximum temperature longer and would surely do more damage to stone walls due to increased exposure.
The trouble is, this is a fire operating in a vacuum. Pawn intervention is usually quick enough to mitigate this, unless it happens far away or during battle, or in multiple places at once like if an enemy has an incendiary launcher or there is a lightning storm, but those are more likely to happen outside than in.
Still, it's within the realm of possibility, but it's unlikely to happen on it's own, I feel.
I'd argue that's more an error in the room temperature calculations than an error in the destructibility of stone. Realistically speaking a simple wood fire shouldn't get that hot, it should take like a designed furnace.
Quote from: Hieronymous Alloy on January 14, 2017, 12:10:08 AM
I'd argue that's more an error in the room temperature calculations than an error in the destructibility of stone. Realistically speaking a simple wood fire shouldn't get that hot, it should take like a designed furnace.
According to this link: https://skysaver.com/blog/how-hot-is-fire/ (https://skysaver.com/blog/how-hot-is-fire/) wood can burn as hot as 3590 F, but that of course does not mean that the room would get that hot, it merely means that fire itself is that hot. Still, a dog or a baby left in a sealed car on a moderately warm day can easily experience temperatures vastly higher than what is recorded outside, because heat is trapped within a structure. A fire in a building or room could reach some pretty decent temperatures. Though like you I don't know if they would quite reach the temperatures listed in the game.
Still they
would reach temperatures that are immediately and overwhelmingly dangerous to pawns, so fire fighting inside of a building should probably be more dangerous which would adversely affect larger structures. Not exactly a buff for villages, though, it's still a debuff for compounds and mountain bases, so I wouldn't exactly champion that idea myself.
Quote from: schizmo on January 14, 2017, 12:26:27 AM
Quote from: Hieronymous Alloy on January 14, 2017, 12:10:08 AM
I'd argue that's more an error in the room temperature calculations than an error in the destructibility of stone. Realistically speaking a simple wood fire shouldn't get that hot, it should take like a designed furnace.
According to this link: https://skysaver.com/blog/how-hot-is-fire/ (https://skysaver.com/blog/how-hot-is-fire/) wood can burn as hot as 3590 F, but that of course does not mean that the room would get that hot, it merely means that fire itself is that hot. Still, a dog or a baby left in a sealed car on a moderately warm day can easily experience temperatures vastly higher than what is recorded outside, because heat is trapped within a structure. A fire in a building or room could reach some pretty decent temperatures. Though like you I don't know if they would quite reach the temperatures listed in the game.
Still they would reach temperatures that are immediately and overwhelmingly dangerous to pawns, so fire fighting inside of a building should probably be more dangerous which would adversely affect larger structures. Not exactly a buff for villages, though, it's still a debuff for compounds and mountain bases, so I wouldn't exactly champion that idea myself.
Oh right wood fires can reach very high temperatures but you have to like stack the firewood for optimal burning or use a furnace or something to get the temperatures that high. As the article you link points out, a typical high rise building fire doesn't get much above 1000 degrees fahrenheit. 3500 F is around the maximum temperature for a wood charcoal fire in a designed furnace with perfect airflow (source: http://rebuildingcivilization.com/content/how-hot-can-you-get-coal-fired-forge).
There's a reason people use concrete and stone when they want to build fireproof buildings: they work, they're pretty much invulnerable to any common fire.
Now again, start talking like sci-fi weapons sure they'll be damaged by burning, and I could even see stone walls taking slight damage from nearby fires if especially intense -- stuff doesn't have to catch fire to get warped or cracked from heat. But realistically no random fire is going to make them catch fire.
Granted. Rocks don't melt at common game temps. I was more talking heat stress, not melting though.
Then again we are using granite and slate by and large two rocks whose origins are in heat and pressure. We could make an argument for the others though being either sedimentary or marble.
Smoke inhalation would be the wiser move. Oh and a cap for indoor temps or otherwise a rework.
All I have to say is that these are the best insulated stone structures I've seen.
Because I have built one, I'll tell you that if you build a stone pizza oven, you can reach temperatures that burn the pizza to a blackened crisp in about 30 seconds if you're not careful in maintaining the right temp.
That's just with wood and a structure to seal in the temp, and a little airflow.
If you build it with the wrong kind of bricks, it explodes. You need special fireproof materials. Not the kind you use for regular building.
A fire is a deadly thing, even just the smoke. So more spaced out buildings are good that way.
It's also one of the reasons you have streets to begin with. designed with combating fire in mind.
But that's just one advantage to another type of layout. Surely there are a lot more. Why are cities designed the way they are? And tribal villages with separate huts? They all have a dispersed layout with spaces in between.
I think stone tiles should offer a modest speed boost and priority to pathfinding as a result. This would probably benefit all types of structures but villages with paths and roads would especially benefit
There are a few reasons why "houses" layout are not feasible:
- temperature control, sharing heaters/coolers by using vents
- houses cost more wall resources because two rooms don't share a wall
- vulnerability to manhunters. This is a big one. A cabin typically doesn't have its own food storage, joy room, or even table.
- prison breaks are worse
- TRAVEL TIMES
- a hut is easily surrounded, but a termite mound colony has retreat routes
Advantages
+ remarkable resistance to drop pods
+ resistance to mortars
+ resistance to fire (not a big deal because stone is the go-to material, and no floor burns)
+ sappers are pointless
Another reason why spaced out villages are bad is that guns are quite puny in Rimworld. Open spaces are not death zones, in most cases you can't kill animals or humans before they cross the empty space. Even masters of Shooting can't put enough lead in targets, so people rely on volume of fire, Triggerhappy, etc. Even a hit might just blow off an ear. Careful shooter with a sniper rifle won't score more headshots.
I think where it differs from real life the most is that our houses are very rarely just bricks and concrete. We have wooden furniture, plastic, cloth carpets, curtains, and so on. Rimworld rooms are mostly bare floor. Also, structures collapse when heat damages them, but it's impossible to represent in 2D.
I prefer rude people with good ideas, CONSTRUCTIVE criticism and critical thinking than polite dimwits. Linus Torvalds > Bambi . https://www.wired.com/2012/06/torvalds-nvidia-linux/
Quote from: JuicyPVP on January 13, 2017, 11:29:08 AM
In rim world the roof is sheet steel.. there is literally no fuel to be burnt in most people's structures.
You are suggesting to nerf the common play style to suit your personal liking. That's fine. But you have to expect resistance from the 80% of players who run the play style you want nerfed... I'm not trolling you. Lol.
I dunno. I think the thing I suggested was something that could be well taken into account, without necessarily
nerfing the big complex idea. Places where colonists could take long walks around the home zone, without having to loop their route. That would be an interesting thing to take into account when building either a complex or a town. Whether it be interlocking hallways, or bigger towns. Either could work.
Borsuk, yeah, there's a lot of problems with making anything other than a single megacomplex. I listed them too in the second post I think. Many, many problems.
And that's fine, but here's a place for you to come out with ideas on how to make other layouts feasible, by whatever means.
So I suggested more realistic fire simulation with buildings collapsing, fire spreading inside ridiculously fast and very hot, and smoke darkening everything and killing people.
which is fun.
You can still put it out, but if you don't manage to do that, it'll destroy all or most of your complex.
Other ideas included... well... I'm not sure actually. Are there other ideas?
LOVE YOUR SIGNATURE BTW, so true.
That's not a signature, that's just something I wanted to post when I saw you harassed by JuicyPVP. We give too much attention to manners in what should be a Suggestions subforum. And he's using tactics like strawman - putting words into your mouth, something that superficially resembles your argument but is easier to refute. Why is rude behaviour lambasted but intellectual dishonesty tolerated ? I hate gentlemen, you can be an a-hole but polite and that's suddenly okay ? I rate people by what they do, not what or how they say.
I think fire is deadly enough as it is, it reaches absurd temperatures very quickly and there are no fire-resistant clothes (try fighting an inferno centipede head-on and you will see. Plasteel-made power armor burns like paper. Your best bet is probably leathers, maybe camelhair but I'm not sure what flammability it has.).
The problem with fire is that there's too much stuff that's not flammable. Stone is the default material, no floor burns except the recently discovered growing zone floor. Workbenches burn, stockpiles burn, but there's nothing between these objects, maybe conduits. Areas with high concentration of items like stockpiles can be protected by firefoam. So... stone floor should be made more expensive back again, keep wood as it is but make it flammable, carpets - prettier than wooden tiles, but even more flammable. While steel doesn't burn, it transmits heat very well. Hot steel that doesn't ignite can still bend.
Maybe smoke needs to be expanded on.
I really mean it about ranged weapons. For me one of defining characteristics of a FPS game is how deadly its weapons are - how far can you move through an open space before being taken out. Counterstrike, ARMA, Rainbow Six, Red Orchestra are on the extreme end of realism side and people avoid open spaces like the plague. Games like Call of Duty, Battlefield, Dirty Bomb, Enemy Territory are in the middle. Quake, DooM, UT are the least realistic, and people can move far before being taken out. Deadlier weapons would help, but it would make melee worse, and AI raiders are not smart enough about cover.
Colonists only get mood bonuses from indoor areas. There should be a mechanism that evaluates prettiness of outdoor areas. Fresh snow should be pretty. Unmolested nature should be pretty (no signs of grazing animals, mining, construction rubble, cutting trees). Rain should quickly wash away bloodstains.
It's been proven by both sociologists and biologists that beigns don't like crowded colonies and stress builds up. I remember reading about a study which said buildings taller than 4 stories are bad, because that's when people stop caring about common staircases and treat them as nobody's. That's the treshold for vandalization, hobos, drunks, and creepy strangers.
For Rimworld, I think more emphasis should be put on noise from workshops. A person just walking by past your wall shouldn't disturb sleep, meditation or prayer. Most workshops and geothermal generators should punch through nearby walls.
Wow I really like the idea of higher impact 'noise pollution'.
I'm imagining a shared-wall room with a couple 'getting some lovin' on one side and a guy on the other side with the constant "interrupted sleep" bubble :>
Also there was an 'airflow' suggestion also, I wonder how that could work...
Possibly pawns should become more susceptible to disease IF they don't spend a certain portion of the day in fresh air, or something like that?
Though that's 'reaching', I suppose.
Just a quick note, rain already washes away blood.
A second thought I had and one that is somewhat more beneficial to villages than compounds/mountains would be the currently implemented system of room roles, and how a number of specific types of furniture in one room allows the room to be classified as a kitchen or workshop or rec room, etc.
These individualized rooms with their specific roles allow for colonists who utilize/pass through them to experience positive mood buffs and have thoughts like "Wow we have a really nice rec room!" this sort of thing is FAR easier in an open layout because it takes a considerably larger amount of space to keep every type of room separated, beautiful, clean, spacious, impressive, and wealthy. Tightly packed compounds and or mountain bases are less likely to afford the player with the space and diversity necessary to accomplish this effectively, and the "one room schoolhouse" approach makes it impossible.
The mood buff from effective use of Room Roles is really important to keeping colonists happy and effective, so this type of thing CAN benefit all play styles but is more likely to benefit villages.
I build towns almost exclusively, using varendas and single tile wood walls as 'posts' it can easily allow street fighting as you have more to block incoming shots and keep light levels down. As being in the dark makes a pawn harder to hit.
Though i would prefer... if there were some way for the game to know- more kidnapping raids on open plan towns. As they would have a much higher sucess chance.
That would divert them from their typical "smash everything, steal if we get bored" approach.
I would prefer that to be honest, as a large town can take some time to get everyone to safety while i muster a militia to fight back- and rebuilding can get tedious.