Note: The current CE release on github is only meant for internal testing. Do not use it if you just want to play a regular game with the latest version of Combat Realism. Go here instead: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=27374.msg315289#msg315289
So some of you might have seen an announcement in the old CR thread about me and some other modders coming together to pick up development of that mod. After a few months of work we can finally present to you, Combat Extended. All the mechanics and rebalance that made CR what it is are still there, however the aim of CE going forward is going to be to focus more on gameplay and balance than before. We're not going to go full-on arcade but there won't be any more features added just for the sake of realism alone either.
That said, a lot of work has been done already. Tons of bugs have been fixed, features were polished and overhauled. Some of the changes are:
- A new options menu, allowing users to toggle various features on and off, including a no-ammo mode
- Lots of learning concepts have been added to the ingame tutor, explaining various CE mechanics such as aiming, armor, suppression and ammo crafting
- Medical system rebalance with new painkiller drugs that let you treat pain from scars
- Ammo deteriorates and can cook off in spectacular fashion when damaged
- Complete animal rebalance
- Lots of QoL improvements: loadouts were massively improved, hunters will no longer try to snipe squirrels half the map away and a myriad of other small changes
The focus of development right now is on balancing existing features to create a more tactical combat experience and fix various long-standing problems, as well as making sure the new features integrate properly with gameplay and work properly. For that, we need playtesters to help us find bugs and test balance. This means:
- Finding bugs and the steps to reproduce them. This means carefully observing features to make sure they are actually working as intended. If your usual mod-list includes other mods you should try to reproduce the bug with only CE loaded (otherwise its a mod conflict and should be reported as such).
- Testing balance. There are a number of areas that are currently under revision and testers are needed to provide detailed feedback on balance issues and help work out possible solutions. Note that feedback should be more than just "Shit's broke, plz fix" or "I think trees should give more cover because I like trees". If you think something needs changing you should generally try to provide some reasonable arguments as to why.
- Autonomously finding balance issues. Aside from the areas currently under revision, we can always use good feedback on potential improvements to make the gameplay more engaging and/or improving on various features, general usability, etc. Same rules as above apply for providing feedback.
If you're okay with all that and want to help out with this project, we have a Discord where we handle all our development. Let me know via PM or in this thread that you want to participate and I'll send you the invite.
If you want to track our progress or see what we're up to you can check out the Development branch on our github repo (https://github.com/NoImageAvailable/CombatExtended).
I'd be interested in helping you guys out in any way I can. I was really bummed CR was discontinued and my Rimworld games just haven't been the same since.
Quote from: NoImageAvailable on April 16, 2017, 10:52:37 AM
So some of you might have seen an announcement in the old CR thread about me and some other modders coming together to pick up development of that mod. After a few months of work we can finally present to you, Combat Extended. All the mechanics and rebalance that made CR what it is are still there, however the aim of CE going forward is going to be to focus more on gameplay and balance than before. We're not going to go full-on arcade but there won't be any more features added just for the sake of realism alone either.
That said, a lot of work has been done already. Tons of bugs have been fixed, features were polished and overhauled. Some of the changes are:
- A new options menu, allowing users to toggle various features on and off, including a no-ammo mode
- Lots of learning concepts have been added to the ingame tutor, explaining various CE mechanics such as aiming, armor, suppression and ammo crafting
- Medical system rebalance with new painkiller drugs that let you treat pain from scars
- Ammo deteriorates and can cook off in spectacular fashion when damaged
- Complete animal rebalance
- Lots of QoL improvements: loadouts were massively improved, hunters will no longer try to snipe squirrels half the map away and a myriad of other small changes
The focus of development right now is on balancing existing features to create a more tactical combat experience and fix various long-standing problems, as well as making sure the new features integrate properly with gameplay and work properly. For that, we need playtesters to help us find bugs and test balance. This means:
- Finding bugs and the steps to reproduce them. This means carefully observing features to make sure they are actually working as intended. If your usual mod-list includes other mods you should try to reproduce the bug with only CE loaded (otherwise its a mod conflict and should be reported as such).
- Testing balance. There are a number of areas that are currently under revision and testers are needed to provide detailed feedback on balance issues and help work out possible solutions. Note that feedback should be more than just "Shit's broke, plz fix" or "I think trees should give more cover because I like trees". If you think something needs changing you should generally try to provide some reasonable arguments as to why.
- Autonomously finding balance issues. Aside from the areas currently under revision, we can always use good feedback on potential improvements to make the gameplay more engaging and/or improving on various features, general usability, etc. Same rules as above apply for providing feedback.
If you're okay with all that and want to help out with this project, we have a Discord where we handle all our development. Let me know via PM or in this thread that you want to participate and I'll send you the invite.
If you want to track our progress or see what we're up to you can check out the Development branch on our github repo (https://github.com/NoImageAvailable/CombatExtended).
quick question do it works on Rimfire, 20th century Guns and high caliber?
Quote from: Robloxsina66 on April 17, 2017, 07:34:22 PM
quick question do it works on Rimfire, 20th century Guns and high caliber?
Most CR patches won't work with CE and we're not going to update them while the mod is still under development.
I really enjoyed CR but one thing that bugged me to no end is the restriction of shoot verbs to specific bullet calibers. There are multiple calibers that can be shot from a sidearm and a rifle. For example, there are multiple 9mm carbines, and 9mm is the most prevalent caliber in pistols. Obviously, shooting that same bullet from a carbine would change their ballistics than from a pistol. There are even different ballistics from a 20" to a 28" barrel M4, since 5.56x45mm benefits drastically from long barrels and loses a lot of their terminal ballistic power from a simple change such as that.
This struck me as quite strange, giving that they went into the trouble of adding AP/HP bullets. So my question is: I like CR's burst/auto/single fire modes, bullet types and the way they dealt with sway, recoil and the likes. But the suppression mechanic leaves to be desired. Are you guys planning to make it modular?
Quote from: Razzoriel on April 18, 2017, 02:09:28 PM
I really enjoyed CR but one thing that bugged me to no end is the restriction of shoot verbs to specific bullet calibers. There are multiple calibers that can be shot from a sidearm and a rifle. For example, there are multiple 9mm carbines, and 9mm is the most prevalent caliber in pistols. Obviously, shooting that same bullet from a carbine would change their ballistics than from a pistol. There are even different ballistics from a 20" to a 28" barrel M4, since 5.56x45mm benefits drastically from long barrels and loses a lot of their terminal ballistic power from a simple change such as that.
That's actually changed now, ammo supports different projectiles depending on what gun its fired from. So while there aren't any plans to implement different ballistics for vanilla guns from our side it would be easy to make an XML patch for this type of thing.
QuoteThis struck me as quite strange, giving that they went into the trouble of adding AP/HP bullets. So my question is: I like CR's burst/auto/single fire modes, bullet types and the way they dealt with sway, recoil and the likes. But the suppression mechanic leaves to be desired. Are you guys planning to make it modular?
No plans to make it modular. The whole aiming and suppression system is getting a major balance overhaul right now so should be better in the final release though.
Oh god I've been waiting for this post! I refuse to play Rimworld without CR/CE. :)
Question I took from Rimfire to CR until I realized CR was abandoned; could we fix the problem of incendiary explosives downing pawns? Incendiary Launchers being sniper rifles that are incapable of missing and one-hit-kill any human pawns is a little silly. It being guaranteed to hit from forever away is fine, it catching a person on fire & effectively stunning them as they run around burning would be fine, but it being %100 to down a person & leave them burning to death on the ground so that all it takes for a raid that happens to bring one is to shoot exactly as many incendiaries as you have colonists to do a full colony wipe is a bit much
I'd gladly help testing if you want to send me the discord link.
As soon as I heard about combat realism I wanted to get it so that i wouldn't have to rely on cheeky turret killboxes as much. When i learned I couldn't get it anymore, i was bummed out. Luckily, someone on the subreddtit told me how i could test this new reboot, and now I can't WAIT! I will glady test this out for you guys if you gimme a chance! My discord is the same as my username here!
Quick question, is the zip file on the github page usable? Or is it still a work in progress? I tried putting it in my mods folder and running it, but it wouldn't load.
Quote from: 213LBC on April 23, 2017, 11:29:47 PM
As soon as I heard about combat realism I wanted to get it so that i wouldn't have to rely on cheeky turret killboxes as much. When i learned I couldn't get it anymore, i was bummed out. Luckily, someone on the subreddtit told me how i could test this new reboot, and now I can't WAIT! I will glady test this out for you guys if you gimme a chance! My discord is the same as my username here!
The old CR thread has a link on its last page with the last stable release. People who just want to play a regular game should use that. Testing CE is only for those who want to deal with major bugs and imbalances to help get the release done faster. If that still interests you let me know via PM and I'll send you the invite.
Quote from: 213LBC on April 24, 2017, 01:21:36 AM
Quick question, is the zip file on the github page usable? Or is it still a work in progress? I tried putting it in my mods folder and running it, but it wouldn't load.
The release on github is only meant for internal testing. Its highly unstable and not suited for public use yet.
I will be extensively interested in the development for this mod. I wish the you very best making it.
Progress update: Lots of bugs have been found and squashed, thanks to the people our new testing team. In the meantime, work on feature additions continues. One of the things we've been working on is a major melee overhaul:
Melee mechanics have been greatly expanded, pawns now have the ability to dodge and parry incoming melee attacks. They can also perform critical hits which do increased damage on attack and grant a free counter-attack on a parry.
(http://i.imgur.com/iR0HBPU.png)
New melee shields are available for crafting. They act like additional armor against projectile attacks and are fully integrated into the new melee system with shield blocks and bashing, in exchange for being unable to use two-handed weapons.
I just found out about this today, and I'm loving that you're working on this! RimWorld without CR just isn't the same, but I also hope that you aren't burning yourself out working so hard on this. Loving the melee rework too, might be less of a suicide mission now!
Quote from: NoImageAvailable on May 02, 2017, 08:38:36 AM
Progress update: Lots of bugs have been found and squashed, thanks to the people our new testing team. In the meantime, work on feature additions continues. One of the things we've been working on is a major melee overhaul:
Melee mechanics have been greatly expanded, pawns now have the ability to dodge and parry incoming melee attacks. They can also perform critical hits which do increased damage on attack and grant a free counter-attack on a parry.
(http://i.imgur.com/iR0HBPU.png)
New melee shields are available for crafting. They act like additional armor against projectile attacks and are fully integrated into the new melee system with shield blocks and bashing, in exchange for being unable to use two-handed weapons.
Please tell me these features are XML-friendly.
Quote from: Razzoriel on May 05, 2017, 04:58:42 PM
Please tell me these features are XML-friendly.
Depends on what you mean by XML-friendly.
Will us, mere lowly modders, be able to modify percentages and how/when these features trigger?
Quote from: Razzoriel on May 05, 2017, 07:14:07 PM
Will us, mere lowly modders, be able to modify percentages and how/when these features trigger?
The proc chances for crit/parry/dodge are just plain old pawn stats. You can modify the stats themselves, add stat modifiers to apparel/weapons etc.
Shields are handled by checking for the apparel tags "CE_Shield" and "CE_BallisticShield" but body part coverage is currently hardcoded for the two types (I don't really see a whole lot of situations where you'd want to customize this but if someone finds one the system can be opened up to XML).
Quote from: NoImageAvailable on May 06, 2017, 04:31:57 AMShields are handled by checking for the apparel tags "CE_Shield" and "CE_BallisticShield" but body part coverage is currently hardcoded for the two types (I don't really see a whole lot of situations where you'd want to customize this but if someone finds one the system can be opened up to XML).
If it's not much of a troubling thing, I'd like it implemented, yes. Some sort of XML code for the modder to add tags of his own for percentage of full block for ranged and/or melee attacks, and modding in which body parts are covered by the shield. Though I don't actually agree much for additional armor, it is mathematically the best approach for it, and I appreciate the effort you're taking for it.
Quote from: Razzoriel on May 06, 2017, 03:05:54 PMIf it's not much of a troubling thing, I'd like it implemented, yes. Some sort of XML code for the modder to add tags of his own for percentage of full block for ranged and/or melee attacks, and modding in which body parts are covered by the shield. Though I don't actually agree much for additional armor, it is mathematically the best approach for it, and I appreciate the effort you're taking for it.
I can extend the defs to allow defining which parts are covered by a specific shield while standing/crouching but I am curious as to what exactly you want to do with this. Currently the regular shield covers the torso while the ballistic shield covers torso + head while moving and everything except the feet while crouched. What kind of shield do you plan to make that wouldn't fit either of those categories?
Melee block rate is handled through the parry stat and ranged block doesn't involve RNG at all, either the projectile hits the covered body part or it doesn't. Not sure what your problem with shield armor is, the way a shield works is that a projectile strikes it and either it penetrates the shield or it doesn't.
I guess more 'gimmicky' shields like the buckler might be a good example of a shield that would need different coverage.
Just having the option open for people looking to make their own set using CE, whether it really comes into use or not its nice to know the option is there.
Quote from: Goldenpotatoes on May 07, 2017, 09:26:44 AM
I guess more 'gimmicky' shields like the buckler might be a good example of a shield that would need different coverage.
Exactly.
Regular shields not covering your arm and/or hands seems like an oversight, since i'm strapping it on my arm and holding it on my hand, for example.
I'm planning to make armguards, bucklers, parmas, heaters, scutum, square, ballistic... not sure if you know, I have a mod which is all about variety. Intending to have shield variety is something I'd highly value, if it was available. You're saying pawns can crouch, which could have good implications for tactics involving shieldwalls, so making shields more effective in this regard or not, and each individual value such as HP, deterioration, parts protected, and so forth, can ensure a good healthy variety of shields throughout the ages.
So, if block rate is only defined by melee skill, having a small or large shield has no impact on your final block value, correct? Ok. And does melee follow the same rule as projectiles (can a melee attack go through the shield)?
Quote from: Razzoriel on May 07, 2017, 12:52:58 PM
Quote from: Goldenpotatoes on May 07, 2017, 09:26:44 AM
I guess more 'gimmicky' shields like the buckler might be a good example of a shield that would need different coverage.
Exactly.
Regular shields not covering your arm and/or hands seems like an oversight, since i'm strapping it on my arm and holding it on my hand, for example.
Should've clarified it better, they cover everything at torso height. Under the hood the projectile deflection works by checking against body part height. If the impacted part has height Bottom a ballistic shield would provide coverage only if the pawn is crouching. If the height is Middle it always provides coverage (except for the right arm, which is not covered while pawns are in the busy-stance, i.e. attacking exposes your arm). Top height is always protected with a ballistic shield.
QuoteSo, if block rate is only defined by melee skill, having a small or large shield has no impact on your final block value, correct? Ok. And does melee follow the same rule as projectiles (can a melee attack go through the shield)?
Block rate is determined by the parry stat, which scales of Melee skill. A shield can boost it by giving say, +20% parry the same way apparel can give +20% cooking speed. Melee attacks currently do not have the ability to penetrate a shield the way projectiles can and there are technical issues preventing implementation of such a mechanic.
Good job boys. your are the best.
I can't wait for this to be properly released. Keep up the good work.
Hey! I'd love to test this out. I've also fixed some minor bugs in the A16 version of Combat Realism, if you'd want that.
how would one get/test this mod?
At stated in the initial post, PM him for the discord to get aboard testing.
Additionally, I wanted to thank you guys for putting in the work to pick up this mod--it's a brilliant addition to the combat system, and I'm glad to see it lives on. While it's not my intention to sound pushy or ungrateful, I'd be remiss if I didn't ask if you guys had an expectation of when you would make a stable release.
Quote from: n7huntsman on May 27, 2017, 12:37:44 PM
While it's not my intention to sound pushy or ungrateful, I'd be remiss if I didn't ask if you guys had an expectation of when you would make a stable release.
Its hard for me to give any kind of exact estimate partly because I have a poor track record when it comes to release dates (I originally intended to release this all the way back in March IIRC) and partly because a lot of the current workload is balancing, which is kind of hard to make a time estimate for.
If you want to get a general idea for how much work is left, you can check the 1.0 milestone (https://github.com/NoImageAvailable/CombatExtended/milestone/2). Its currently in feature-lock so unless any urgent bugs crop up we'll release as soon as all the issues in that list are dealt with.
Can't wait to see what you guys have done with the mod!
Couple of quick questions though:
Do you know if the mod will require a clean start? Currently holding off on A17 because I'd hate to start over.
Also, CR had an issue having multiple maps open (like conducting raids, or running two settlements) where if you reloaded turrets on one map, the ammo would drop to the next one, leaving the turret unloaded, causing more reloads and ammo to disappear. This made it impossible to set up trading outposts, and was another thing to worry about during raids/encounters. Is that problem still present? It could have just been my game setup, not entirely sure.
Thanks to everyone whose work kept this mod alive!
Very glad to see that this is being worked on again, I would love to participate with it
Quote from: MrWeeGee on May 27, 2017, 09:31:06 PM
Do you know if the mod will require a clean start? Currently holding off on A17 because I'd hate to start over.
I doubt its going to run smoothly on an existing game and depending on how long your playthroughs usually last you probably have time to play at least one colony before we get a public release out.
QuoteAlso, CR had an issue having multiple maps open (like conducting raids, or running two settlements) where if you reloaded turrets on one map, the ammo would drop to the next one, leaving the turret unloaded, causing more reloads and ammo to disappear. This made it impossible to set up trading outposts, and was another thing to worry about during raids/encounters. Is that problem still present? It could have just been my game setup, not entirely sure.
First time I heard of this bug, but I went and fixed it now.
Please make extensive use of patches... the old combat realism had so many compatibility problems.
Dear NoImageAvailable,
thank you (and any co-workers) for rebooting this!
Regards
I took this mod for a spin and so far no bugs, gliches or errors. I was testing some things around (testing out the suppression mechanic, shooting my colonists raiders to test the damage) when I came across the granades my granader keeps getting hurt by his own granades from the fragments due to its short range. If you can make it so that you can throw frags further.
I came into Rimworld super late, but I do love it regardless.
My biggest issue with Rimworld A17 is that the mod "Combat Realism" likes to mess up for me. So I was very happy to see it was picked back up and is currently being worked on.
I'm not even going to ask if I can help as I would be unreliable, and not always do as asked. Regardless, Thank You for bringing this mod back. I REALLY look forward to seeing it in (hopefully) Alpha 17.
Do you plan on making more cannon/shell based turrets for us to use?
I was working on a modification of your original CR mod that included some changes and new content such as a 105mm artillery piece to go with the 90mm already given to us. I personally love those to death and seeing something similar to what I was working on would be awesome.
Love your mod, I just wish that @Tynan would just put this into the game and have you help work on it. I am just sick of the vanilla combat system and how silly it is.
Standing two feet away from your target shouldn't allow you to miss, its just dumb. So I love this mod for actually doing a great job of accurately portraying combat.
how about making some patches for combat extended like high calibre, rim fire ext....
I'm a (was) real fan of combat realism, Now since I combat realism here, what ways can I help the development of the mod?
I just wanted to say that a lot of people literally can't play the mod since the game feels broken with out this mod.
Thank you for continuing this mod :D
Also Need to ask you, what version is this mod currently in? because this needs to be updated to A17 asap.
Quote from: spyfox321 on June 02, 2017, 06:14:01 AM
Also Need to ask you, what version is this mod currently in? because this needs to be updated to A17 asap.
It is download the github version for a17
Quote from: rambo on June 02, 2017, 11:36:34 AM
Quote from: spyfox321 on June 02, 2017, 06:14:01 AM
Also Need to ask you, what version is this mod currently in? because this needs to be updated to A17 asap.
It is download the github version for a17
The version on github is an internal testing build. It is unstable and unfinished and people shouldn't be using it before we can get a proper release done.
Quote from: NoImageAvailable on June 02, 2017, 12:55:32 PM
Quote from: rambo on June 02, 2017, 11:36:34 AM
Quote from: spyfox321 on June 02, 2017, 06:14:01 AM
Also Need to ask you, what version is this mod currently in? because this needs to be updated to A17 asap.
It is download the github version for a17
The version on github is an internal testing build. It is unstable and unfinished and people shouldn't be using it before we can get a proper release done.
Understood
@NIA & ProfoundDarkness:
I've seen on github something about setting flags to weapons, like hunting, melee ad ranged for automatic switching. Have you looked at SimpleSidearms (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=32497.0)?
I still haven't played A17 yet, but it seems to implement most of what you discussed, plus some better control over switching weapons. Back in A16 with CR I used to equip my soldiers with assault rifles for long/mid range and shotguns for close quarters, and sometimes even grenades, but opening each pawn's inventory to change weapons was annoying.
Quote from: gariba on June 04, 2017, 03:17:24 PM
@NIA & ProfoundDarkness:
I've seen on github something about setting flags to weapons, like hunting, melee ad ranged for automatic switching. Have you looked at SimpleSidearms (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=32497.0)?
I still haven't played A17 yet, but it seems to implement most of what you discussed, plus some better control over switching weapons. Back in A16 with CR I used to equip my soldiers with assault rifles for long/mid range and shotguns for close quarters, and sometimes even grenades, but opening each pawn's inventory to change weapons was annoying.
Hi there, I'm not a moderator, but SimpleSidearms does work quite well, if you are willing to customize some of the stuff it lets you edit.
However it is relatively basic, and you are fully capable of having a minigun as a sidearm...No I am not joking. They may not want to have that, or they may have something else planned.
Quote from: Umbreon117 on June 04, 2017, 03:42:27 PM
Hi there, I'm not a moderator, but SimpleSidearms does work quite well, if you are willing to customize some of the stuff it lets you edit.
However it is relatively basic, and you are fully capable of having a minigun as a sidearm...No I am not joking. They may not want to have that, or they may have something else planned.
Sorry, I failed to get through what I really wanted to say. I didn't mean to imply that there is already another mod that implements a feature they discussed, so they should drop it, but that it could serve as reference, code-wise and gameplay-wise.
Quote from: gariba on June 04, 2017, 03:17:24 PM
@NIA & ProfoundDarkness:
I've seen on github something about setting flags to weapons, like hunting, melee ad ranged for automatic switching. Have you looked at SimpleSidearms (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=32497.0)?
I still haven't played A17 yet, but it seems to implement most of what you discussed, plus some better control over switching weapons. Back in A16 with CR I used to equip my soldiers with assault rifles for long/mid range and shotguns for close quarters, and sometimes even grenades, but opening each pawn's inventory to change weapons was annoying.
We've already discussed that mod internally, actually. The problem with simply integrating an existing mod is that a lot of the time they're going to have their own systems in place to handle things which may overlap or conflict with our own existing solutions. So you end up having to adapt a lot of the code and by the end you spent more time trying to get an existing mod integrated than it would have taken you to just create your own functionality designed to work with your existing framework.
For that reason we're not very likely to directly incorporate SimpleSidearms into CE. A better sidearms UI is definitely on our list of things to look into post-1.0 but it'll most likely be an in-house solution with possibly some inspiration taken from other mods.
After testing this out for my self I found a few alot of gliches and bugs. The one that annoyed me the worst was the stationary weapons they dont work at all
Quote from: NoImageAvailable on June 04, 2017, 09:35:40 PM
We've already discussed that mod internally, actually. The problem with simply integrating an existing mod is that a lot of the time they're going to have their own systems in place to handle things which may overlap or conflict with our own existing solutions. So you end up having to adapt a lot of the code and by the end you spent more time trying to get an existing mod integrated than it would have taken you to just create your own functionality designed to work with your existing framework.
Hey NIA, gotta ask: Have you looked at/discussed the ideas around the Real Fog of War mod? I'd love to see FOW integrated into CR/CE, though I know it's a stretch...
Quote from: rambo on June 05, 2017, 12:23:25 PM
After testing this out for my self I found a few alot of gliches and bugs. The one that annoyed me the worst was the stationary weapons they dont work at all
[attachment deleted by admin due to age]
Quote from: porcupine on June 05, 2017, 05:00:18 PM
Hey NIA, gotta ask: Have you looked at/discussed the ideas around the Real Fog of War mod? I'd love to see FOW integrated into CR/CE, though I know it's a stretch...
I've seen it but never actually tried it myself. Maybe once it gets a finished release and some of the performance issues are ironed out. Don't really see a particular reason to integrate it if it works just fine as stand-alone though.
Mod has been released: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=33461.0