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Personally, I'm interested to see what the forums think is the best melee weapon, so I give you this quick poll. Would also be curious to see the reasons behind these preferences (cost, damage, recharge time, etc).

Answers are much appreciated. :D

D: none of the above.  I reroll till "brawler" is NOT a trait.

ALL shooters, all the time!

If that answer is not acceptable, then C:  whatever does the most DPS.

If I'm looking to recruit then the mace, and if I'm looking slice off limbs then the longsword.

Out of those probably longswords.
But I prefer sprinting death machines injected with a cocktail of drugs and grafted with ludicrous amounts of weaponized prostheses.

I'm a fan of "none of the above" as well, especially now that AI has improved and it's difficult to separate pawns with door games.

If an enemy makes it to melee range then all my guys on the firing line run up to him and pummel him to death with fists. Then go back to shooting the others.  Fists are reasonably effective.

Gladius or Spear and belt for shield. SPARTA!

Longsword has a higher base dmg but Gladius has more DPS, so if you go full melee equip everyone with Gladius.

If you only have one or two melees, equip the longsword.

I have several weapons that I really like using, but I'd have to go with Gladius as my all-round favourite.

My take on each weapon

Shiv: A great weapon for the early game because a shiv is significantly cheaper than a club, and also quicker to make.

Club: As nice of a weapon as it is, it's generally a bit of an expensive one for early-game where it sees most use. Blunt damage means that it is more effective against armour as armour typically offers poor blunt damage protection.

Knife: Other than early-mid game for crashlanded, I don't really use the knife much. It has a very short cooldown so it's an excellent weapon for very low level melee people. The shiv is much cheaper for a slight DPS deficit, and the gladius is only slightly more expensive for considerably more DPS.

Mace: Blunt damage means that maces are effective against armour, so I try to mix a few maces into my melee squad.

Gladius: As I said earlier, all-round favourite. Short cooldown, significantly more powerful than the knife, relatively cheap to make. Great weapon for low-skilled people.

Spear: Another decent weapon, basically a compromise between the gladius and longsword. However, I don't really see myself using spears much for other than early-mid game where I'm at the point of looting melee weapons.

Longsword: A close second for me, only not taking my personal top spot because it's only really going to see a lot of use with high level pawns. It has the highest DPS out of all melee weapons, and I typically eventually replace gladii with longswords as pawns get more skilled with melee.

Other mentions...

Scyther Blade: Despite the nerf, scyther blades are still good melee weapons. However, a better than superior quality plasteel longsword will out-DPS scyther blades. Although with enough drugging up and a pair of bionic eyes, Scyther Blades are very dangerous when used in conjunction with a charge rifle. I'd like to reserve the scyther blade treatment for sheriffs though, and other generally incapable pawns that excel at combat.

Fists: Seriously, the buff to make fists do 7 damage (as well as 1.65 -> 1.6s cooldown) is something I meet with disagreement as it only blurs the line between a few melee fighters going up against a few gunmen in melee. I've found that a lot of my melee pawns (with good+ steel/plasteel weapons) end up getting downed by fists this update.

Wood Log: Was a great improvised weapon, not so much any more. Fists out-DPS logs.

Beer Bottle: Similar story to the log, except I don't really use beer as an improvised weapon because I'd typically have a decent stock of melee weapons by the time that I get a brewery up.

just a heads up, for single hit damage, club and mace are identical.

They do the same damage per material, but club has a very slightly longer cooldown.  That being said, club is far cheaper, AND has access to jade, whereas the mace cannot be made of jade.  A jade club has the highest blunt damage per hit AND dps for its quality.  a plasteel or uranium mace even still falls short to the jade club.

I've always been a longsword guy, but i'm strongly considering having my late game colonies have a squad of jade clubmen. 

I only ever now use:
stone clubs (early, churn em out til you get a quality one)
spears (if i don't have any good crafter, i'll salvage enemy tribal spears of decent quality, but never make my own)
jade clubs
plasteel maces (fast cooldown...quantity of hits is more important than quality for disabling)
steel, then eventually plasteel longswords.

Quote from: SURU on July 07, 2017, 08:18:10 AM
Gladius or Spear and belt for shield. SPARTA!

Same.

Gladius, or Spear and Shield and Cape. SPARTAAA!

(There's no capes.  :'( :'( :'()

Longswords. Plasteel, colony-made longswords. :P

Great for the occasional Brawler for the sheer damage which often removes limbs in one hit. I don't prefer melee, but I can't deny the effectiveness of a Brawler ambush in a tight corridor.

I don't like de-limbing for most of the game because of losing a potential recruit to it.
Last time I took a deep look, Blunt damage in general was harder for armor to absorb than the cutting damages, and doesn't de-limb. They also don't cause bleeding which makes captured prisoners easier to recover. So I usually stick to Maces for my melee weapons.

If I'm looking for captives for... one reason or another, I use maces.
If I want something dead, I use my Right to Bare Bears with arms, and Barely ever have any issues.
If I Want something dead Quickly, I Use bionic fists and Bullets.

There are many raid types where melee is crummy on extreme.  Mechs, raiders with doomsdays that won't separate (like sappers), large tribal raids are all too dangerous for melee to be viable.

However, melee is great to pick off isolated enemies, which you can still do.  It's easily the highest early DPS option for tribes.

As a result, my vote goes to club.  It's slower than the shiv, but still extremely fast to produce.  Since a decent crafter can make dozens of them in a day if needed, you can quickly produce a respectable volume of high quality clubs.  Early game a couple quality steel clubs will drop enemy pawns very fast...even 3 pawns hitting target will often have it down by 2nd volley of swings.  They have the additional upside of being less affected by armor and more likely to down enemies for recruits and clothing.

Later on, you can use jade clubs.  Raw DPS they're weaker than the top grade longswords, but vs armor that gap closes considerably...and they're still fast to crank out.

@erdrik blunt damage actually can de-limb.  You don't see it often from fists, but good clubs and maces can rip off fingers and actually will cause bleeding when they do so.  Since jade clubs have a base damage of 18, high quality versions can inadvertently cause serious damage...one of their few downsides as a choice relative to maces, which load their respective DPS over faster, weaker hits.

Quote from: TheMeInTeam on July 10, 2017, 11:44:02 AM
...
@erdrik blunt damage actually can de-limb.  You don't see it often from fists, but good clubs and maces can rip off fingers and actually will cause bleeding when they do so...

*shrug* Blunt is still significantly better odds of saving the target's limbs than cutting damage in my experience. With blunt damage I see "destroyed" or "shattered" far more often than "torn off", and I don't recall ever seeing a destroyed or shattered body part cause bleeding.

Quote from: TheMeInTeam on July 10, 2017, 11:44:02 AM
...one of their few downsides as a choice relative to maces, which load their respective DPS over faster, weaker hits.

According the data files, Clubs and Maces have the same base damage. Its entirely quality and material that makes the difference. A Jade Club is going to do the same damage per hit as a Jade Mace(assuming equal quality). So no, its not "faster, weaker hits". Its just "faster hits" that do the same damage.

Quote from: erdrik on July 10, 2017, 12:12:37 PM

Quote from: TheMeInTeam on July 10, 2017, 11:44:02 AM
...
@erdrik blunt damage actually can de-limb.  You don't see it often from fists, but good clubs and maces can rip off fingers and actually will cause bleeding when they do so...

*shrug* Blunt is still significantly better odds of saving the target's limbs than cutting damage in my experience. With blunt damage I see "destroyed" or "shattered" far more often than "torn off", and I don't recall ever seeing a destroyed or shattered body part cause bleeding.

Quote from: TheMeInTeam on July 10, 2017, 11:44:02 AM
...one of their few downsides as a choice relative to maces, which load their respective DPS over faster, weaker hits.

According the data files, Clubs and Maces have the same base damage. Its entirely quality and material that makes the difference. A Jade Club is going to do the same damage per hit as a Jade Mace(assuming equal quality). So no, its not "faster, weaker hits". Its just "faster hits" that do the same damage.

Jade mace is impossible in an unmodded game though.  Jade club is special in that as a material it applies a massive boost to blunt damage.  People compare Jade clubs to plasteel maces since the DPS is similar (within .1 of each other).  The club is faster to fashion, doesn't need anything but a crafting spot, and is very powerful against armor, but it is definitely a higher damage, slower swing option to use a jade club (base 18 damage before quality modifiers) compared to a metal mace (plasteel hits 12/swing).

Importantly, a high quality jade club will start doing >20 damage even against most armor when it hits non-torso, and that will cause more bleeders than lots of 12 damage hits.

I still prefer the clubs for their ease of access and utility but it's worth keeping in mind.

Quote from: TheMeInTeam on July 10, 2017, 05:08:18 PM
Jade mace is impossible in an unmodded game though...

I don't use clubs and I don't use Jade as a material.
So the thought hadn't occurred to me that maces can't be jade. :P

But that just means a Jade club is meant to be a higher tier weapon, and the blunt damage it deals would still be better than the cutters of that same tier in terms of incapacitating without limb removal. Though not as good as a lesser tier mace, I'd think.

Quote from: erdrik on July 10, 2017, 07:30:52 PM
But that just means a Jade club is meant to be a higher tier weapon... Though not as good as a lesser tier mace, I'd think.

A jade club slightly edges out a plasteel mace in terms of DPS. Updated the wiki page recently (http://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Club).

Quote from: XeoNovaDan on July 10, 2017, 08:23:03 PM

Quote from: erdrik on July 10, 2017, 07:30:52 PM
But that just means a Jade club is meant to be a higher tier weapon... Though not as good as a lesser tier mace, I'd think.

A jade club slightly edges out a plasteel mace in terms of DPS. Updated the wiki page recently (http://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Club).

I don't get your point. You appear to have completely missed the context of the conversation...

Wooden club is my most used weapon. Wonderful prison control without killing usefull "soon to be" pawns.

Limbs and body parts should be way more resilient. They are way too easily shot or cut off.
That makes combat way more unrewarding and melee way too risky.


Also, maces are the evolution of clubs. They are by superior. Both doing the same damage is retarded. As well as making anything from any material. The whole concept is bonkers.

Quote from: XeoNovaDan on July 10, 2017, 08:23:03 PM

Quote from: erdrik on July 10, 2017, 07:30:52 PM
But that just means a Jade club is meant to be a higher tier weapon... Though not as good as a lesser tier mace, I'd think.

A jade club slightly edges out a plasteel mace in terms of DPS. Updated the wiki page recently (http://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Club).

He was referring to the ability to blunt things down without causing bleeding injuries or limb loss.  Jade club hits so hard it actually can tear some stuff off, in contrast to the plasteel mace which does less damage/hit making that outcome less likely.

Realistically though, once you have a good crafter from making clothes simply queuing up 10+ wood or steel clubs and grabbing a couple excellent+ quality clubs will let a couple pawns in melee drop a single target very fast.  Aside from trying to capture someone, melee falls off too much vs too many threat types to be very useful past early game.  It's fun and it can net you a lot of value against early raids, but after that it's time to transition to using "real" weapons too...at least for now.

I like to use Gladii because they are the most practical of all the weapons. Short stabbing swords are much easier to learn to handle and use effectively than a longsword or spear.

If I were actually outfitting a group of stragglers to fight for their lives, I would definitely give them improvised (forged if possible) gladii. It served the Roman legions well enough.

Quote from: TrashMan on July 11, 2017, 06:11:39 AMAlso, maces are the evolution of clubs. They are by superior. Both doing the same damage is retarded. As well as making anything from any material. The whole concept is bonkers.

That's a silly thing to say.  If I brain you with any given blunt object, really the only things that matter are its mass and how fast/hard it was swung.  ALL of the materials used are going to be harder than your head and will do similar damage.

Maces ARE clubs, just specialized, with the weight mostly at the striking end.  Generally speaking, maces are "fighting clubs"; in fact, as used, ALL RimWorld "clubs" are actually "maces", since they are manufactured expressly for combat =) .

The problem with RimWorld, is that maces *almost never* were made of just one material (although they can be).  Generally, wooden handles would be used with w/e head material, if metal wasn't.  You can't easily make an effective all-stone club/mace, because the shaft of the handle would break extremely easily.  Mace heads, however, often were stone, until the advent of copper.  It would be almost impossible to fashion an effective one-piece stone club/mace; even a diamond handle would shatter relatively easily from lateral stresses that wood or metal would ignore.  You'd have to make a one-piece stone club insanely massive to compensate.

Useful links:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Club_(weapon)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mace
http://wikidiff.com/club/mace
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/29u3gd/help_understanding_weapons_what_is_the_difference/ <- Useful but no, maces don't have to have any metal at all.
http://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/317466 <- Ancient Peruvian stone mace head.  Groovy!

Tl;dr?  There's no reason a club, as described in RimWorld, can't do as much or more damage than a mace.

Quote from: Bozobub on July 11, 2017, 08:40:50 PM
That's a silly thing to say.  If I brain you with any given blunt object, really the only things that matter are its mass and how fast/hard it was swung.  ALL of the materials used are going to be harder than your head and will do similar damage.

Words have meaning. Clubs are rough wooden weapon, a bit wider at the top.

Maces are properly crafted, made from steel or iron. They have a thin metal shaft and a bit striking "ball" - maximum impact for less weight.
A steel club would be waaaay inefficient because of weight distribution and balance. Throwing too much material for no gain.

Quote from: TrashMan on July 12, 2017, 08:00:40 AM
...Words have meaning...

Less so in a game. Clubs in Rimworld are abstracted to "blunt melee weapon of X material, a bit wider at the top".
In real life a "metal club" can be closely related to a metal baseball bat.
It may be called a bat, but in general shape and use it can act as a club.
And as Bozobub posted there is historical precedent for non metal maces.

The issue here isn't that you can make a club or mace out of anything, its that it only requires one type of any material.
It should be:
"X amount of any material, and X amount of steel, and X amount of wood"
or "X amount of any material, and X amount of steel"
or "X amount of any material, and X amount of wood"


...
Or "X amount of any material, and X amount of steel or wood".
Maybe Tynan can expand the material building mechanics at some point, but for right now the game simply doesn't support two categories of optional materials.

Quote from: TrashMan on July 12, 2017, 08:00:40 AM

Quote from: Bozobub on July 11, 2017, 08:40:50 PM
That's a silly thing to say.  If I brain you with any given blunt object, really the only things that matter are its mass and how fast/hard it was swung.  ALL of the materials used are going to be harder than your head and will do similar damage.

Words have meaning. Clubs are rough wooden weapon, a bit wider at the top.

Maces are properly crafted, made from steel or iron. They have a thin metal shaft and a bit striking "ball" - maximum impact for less weight.
A steel club would be waaaay inefficient because of weight distribution and balance. Throwing too much material for no gain.

Yes, words have meaning.  And I gave you links to the meaning of the words you happen to be using incorrectly.  And a steel club is AKA a "mace", my friend, exactly as those links will show you, and all-steel (or bronze, or w/e) maces were quite common throughout history.  Hop to it or stop quibbling, because you're not going anywhere with this.  A mace is a specialized club, no more, no less.

Note:  A hollow steel handle can be lighter than the equivalent wooden handle, while remaining much stronger (cylinders are very strong); it will be, however, MUCH more expensive and difficult to manufacture, or replace in the field.  This made wooden-handled versions quite common, as well, until maces and clubs fell out of general use in warfare (with exceptions, however, even up to modern day).  SO it's not terribly inaccurate to rely on only one material for metal maces but a stone mace, however, will definitely require a tougher handle/shaft, usually wood.   As for clubs, sure, you could make an all-stone club out of the right material easily enough, as long as you don't try to make a thin handle.

Before you start sneering at clubs as "primitive", you might wanna slap some eyeballs on these:
https://www.warpaths2peacepipes.com/native-indian-weapons-tools/war-clubs.htm
https://www.warpaths2peacepipes.com/native-indian-weapons-tools/ball-clubs.htm
https://www.warpaths2peacepipes.com/native-indian-weapons-tools/battle-hammer.htm
https://www.warpaths2peacepipes.com/native-indian-weapons-tools/pick-axe.htm
https://www.warpaths2peacepipes.com/native-indian-weapons-tools/gunstock-club.htm
https://www.warpaths2peacepipes.com/native-indian-weapons-tools/hatchet-axe.htm <- All classified as clubs.  Yes, really.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_weaponry

Turns out a stone-and-wood club ain't too shabby!  I'd like to own any one of those; they're absolutely gorgeous.

None. Melee is godawful even with A17 rework. I use melee only if I get brawler pawns or recruits. Melee runs now is a kind of challenge for the sake of challenge, like no iron runs in dwarf fortress.

Longswords. But to be honest, melee weapons are annoying to use due to how AI acts with them. :(
Having to manually order them to attack because they refuse to move on their own is simply annoying and completely unpractical when handling larger forces.

Quote from: Perq on July 13, 2017, 05:15:24 AM
Longswords. But to be honest, melee weapons are annoying to use due to how AI acts with them. :(
Having to manually order them to attack because they refuse to move on their own is simply annoying and completely unpractical when handling larger forces.

Agreed.  In fact, so far this is my biggest problem w/ melee in general.

Quote from: Perq on July 13, 2017, 05:15:24 AM
Longswords. But to be honest, melee weapons are annoying to use due to how AI acts with them. :(
Having to manually order them to attack because they refuse to move on their own is simply annoying and completely unpractical when handling larger forces.

Arguably since fingers and toes are more cardboard than ever and bionics are more scarce in A17 melee's viability was reduced.  Melee is necessarily exposed to risk, and with how you lose parts now even relatively safe engagements before aren't worth it now.  Not only are you much more likely to need a prosthetic or bionic part, but you're also much less likely to get one in a timely fashion.

This is exactly why I voted for the club; it's the best weapon available at a time where melee is still worth considering on high difficulties.  By the time you've the research, resources, and work time available to make stuff like plasteel longswords, you've already needed to handle a siege, sapper, or mech raid, quite possibly without shield belts.  It's a losing proposition.

Melee is not viable after early game in Rimworld.  Arguably, that's okay, but if the intention is to keep it remaining viable throughout the game Rimworld is nowhere near that.