I have a char that constantly go on Go-Juice binges, wracking up the tolerance and been constantly useless.
Arresting him lead to him go berserk and because he does not feel pain beating him up lead to his death.
Any ideas how to handle him to keep him alive and useful. Any general ideas how to handle chemical fascination chars? Besides having a chemical-free colony?
Update 1
Well, right now I am trying to detox him. The way I invented is to make him smoke a joint when he goes into Go-Juice withdraw.
That knocks him out. Micromanagement involves making smoke joint every time he waiks up. But hopefully, i will be able to detox him as result.
Now question, if they addicted and taking his drug regularly, do they go on binges?
Maybe the best way to make them useful is to addict them if it stops binges and they accumulate tolerance slow?
Update 2 After some bunch of joints he got addicted to smoke. So, after he went into smoke withdraw he become permanently incapacitated, so now no micro required. My guess he will detox eventually?
But the question remains, do already addicted pawns that are not in withdraw going on binges?
Well you could wall off the drug supply so the pawn can't reach it. If you have a trade beacon inside the walled off area you can still sell the stash to orbital traders and caravans but your colonists, animals and cats can't use them.
This is only viable if you produce drugs in batches though and if you don't have addicts that require constant resupply. However you could ramp up the supply they should pick up in their drug policy so they can carry around their own private stash to satisfy their needs.
Apart from that all you need to do is occasionally open up the wall to your stash to have your addicts resupply and restock produced drugs.
Other way to deal with it are:
Deal with it. Have the addict have various addiction and feed them whatever they crave. Usually the downsides are manageable with the drugs currently in game and if they don't binge luciferium the economic impact is not that big.
Banish, kill or send your fascinated pawn on caravans. If they can't use drugs they won't.
Or go drug free but apparently that isn't an option for you.
Quote from: Mutineer on October 18, 2017, 04:35:00 AM
I have a char that constantly go on Go-Juice binges, wracking up the tolerance and been constantly useless.
Arresting him lead to him go berserk and because he does not feel pain beating him up lead to his death.
Any ideas how to handle him to keep him alive and useful. Any general ideas how to handle chemical fascination chars? Besides having a chemical-free colony?
What Albion said. Too fast for me!
As far as I know the only way is to literally put a wall between the offender and the drugs. It's probably easier to wall off the drugs than the guy taking them. Perhaps make 1-tile stockpile with a wall-building material right next to the door to the drug room to make walling off as painless as possible.
I seem to remember having a large colony of some 25 colonists. At least one of them must have been the fascinated. All I did was keep the drugs in a room behind the hospital, with a door. But this was so long ago I can't say for sure it kept him out.
use forbidden doors for drug-room, so only drug-addicts on a binge will ignore that, rest of colony is safe.
if a drug binge is going on draft 3-4 pawns with fists and down the drug addict without Major injuries and take them back to their bed and heal them.
rinse repeat until addiction/binge is over.
some chem fascination pawns are just a pain in the a to deal with (your go Juice example)
Need to think about him if he is really that worth for the colony.
Technically, you could wall him into his own little place with a paste dispenser as food supply. No need for him to interact with the outside world.
As for how to keep him useful, it might be possible to rig up a pod launcher to drop in some stone blocks and have him make lots of sculptures, which can be sold from the trade beacon.
Put a bunch of wood in the drug room and when someone goes on binge, call everyone in the room, equip wood and smack that guy silly.
Well, right now I am trying to detox him. The way I invented is to make him smoke a joint when he goes into Go-Juice withdraw.
That knocks him out. Micromanagement involves making smoke joint every time he waiks up. But hopefully, i will be able to detox him as result.
Now question, if they addicted and taking his drug regularly, do they go on binges?
Maybe the best way to make them useful is to addict them if it stops binges and they accumulate tolerance slow?
I'm surprised that no one has yet suggested amputating their legs to permanently incap them.
After withdrawal is over, you can give them peg legs.
Performance hit, of course. But compared to all the micro and other kinds of work that you need to do on all the suggested solutions, this might be well worth your time.
If you don't mind the time delay this is the way to go. I added an outside area as well in order to reduce some of the debufs.
Otherwise getting the junkie pawn to attack Boomalopes with a shiv is also a much quicker method. Make sure you use a wooden shiv though as you don't want to make sparks. (this is a joke please don't get your colonists to attack Boomalopes with shiv's. unless you want them to die.)
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chemical fascination characters will never NOT go on drug binges.
If he's addicted to a substance, that is completely different than having the "chemical interest" or "chemical fascination" trait.
The trait will make him go on mental breaks with no warning or prevention. These mental breaks function like a sad wander, but the pawn will also periodically make his way to any drugs he can get to and imbibe them. The trait can never be lost, and it can never be mitigated, except by having NO drugs on the map (though you still risk a mental break whenever you're raided if a raider drops any drugs). Even if drugs are physically out of reach, the pawn will still have a wandering mental break (like the dementia break)
The addiction is MUCH more manageable. If denied his drug, he will go into withdrawal, with a steadily ramping up mood penalty and health effects until it hits 100%, at which point it will magically and suddenly end. Anything that keeps the pawn contained OR happy during his withdrawal will work, including feeding him OTHER drugs, or imprisoning him (you can build a wall outside his cell every time he goes berserk and beats on the door). He will be 100% cured with no side effects or long term problems if his withdrawal reaches 100% and ends.
Quote from: Limdood on October 18, 2017, 07:39:43 PM
chemical fascination characters will never NOT go on drug binges.
That is not what I experienced. I will get a message "Pawn went on the Go-Juice binge", it will start to drink it as creasy, then eventually I will get that he overdosed (small) and then that he is addicted. When I get him into withdrawal, he went into binge again and this second binge racks him 62% resistance. That what basically trigger me finding the way to clean him up without him going on the binge again.
So far additional addiction and withdrawal from smoke keeping him safe in bed.
Even if you clear him from his go-juice addiction there is no saying he will eventually binge on it again. He might also binge on psychoid (flake and yayo) or any other drug that exists in your colony.
I would have to look at the c# code of the game but I guess binging prefers drugs that the character is already addicted to in order to prevent him from eventually having every addiction possible.
As I mentioned above: the only way to prevent the negative side effects of binging (addictions and a dwindling drug stash) is to wall of the drug stash. The pawn might still go in binge mode but can't get to the drugs and will therefore not take any but wander around sad and annoyed.
And as mentioned by others: clear an addiction by getting them hocked on smoke leaf so they get through the withdrawal mood debuffs or put them into a walled off room with a large food supply and leave them there until they are through withdrawal (which might take several seasons with psychoid and go-juice).
He is an original pawn from this tribal colony. He is pretty good, was my main recruiter, animal handler and researcher ( was 20 before he went into detox) and can cook, haul and clean. He has 16 in the shooting.
I suppose I can put him in separate complex with a room with a bed, table, adv research lab and miltianaliser, additional room with food and stow and an additional room with 3 prisoners I have right now. Give him 2 bears to train, fill the kitchen with food and lock him up...
It may be worth it, as I really rely on go-Juice to keep my doctors awaik after fight healing pawns and animals. I did not bother to research turrets yet, did not needed with animal defence.
Quote from: Mutineer on October 18, 2017, 09:27:02 PM
Quote from: Limdood on October 18, 2017, 07:39:43 PM
chemical fascination characters will never NOT go on drug binges.
That is not what I experienced. I will get a message "Pawn went on the Go-Juice binge", it will start to drink it as creasy, then eventually I will get that he overdosed (small) and then that he is addicted. When I get him into withdrawal, he went into binge again and this second binge racks him 62% resistance. That what basically trigger me finding the way to clean him up without him going on the binge again.
So far additional addiction and withdrawal from smoke keeping him safe in bed.
If you clear the addiction, he will still binge...its a trait, not a removable condition.
The ONLY way to prevent the mental break, as I said above, is to have NO joints, flake, yayo, wake-up, go-juice, beer, or ambrosia* in your map at all, and you still risk a break every time a visitor or raider drops a substance.
*I'm not sure if ambrosia triggers binges, and I'm fairly sure that luciferium does NOT.
Just having the drugs, even walled off, is (for me) way more trouble then it's worth with chemical fascination characters. Such characters inevitably suicide by breaking and wandering into a raid.
Luci doesn't trigger binges, just the usual broken-by-design fake difficulty of animals leaving allowed zones for it. I've never seen an ambrosia binge yet, but it might be possible.
It makes chemical fascination a bit tedious that they'll binge on dropped drugs and whatnot, but at least after the early game you can make a stockpile for non-luci drugs and molotov or grenade them away. Or just wall them off in such a stockpile and eventually sell to traders which can ignore the walls. I think campfires allow burning them too? Not sure.
It's a bad trait but mostly a small nuisance unless you're trying to run a drug-based colony.
yeah burning them in campire would be the cheapest solution instead of using molotovs.
but a colony without drugs = no fun :P
Quote from: Grishnerf on October 19, 2017, 10:51:56 AM
...
but a colony without drugs = no fun :P
Says you.
A colony WITH drugs = no fun.
Quote from: Grishnerf on October 19, 2017, 10:51:56 AM
yeah burning them in campire would be the cheapest solution instead of using molotovs.
but a colony without drugs = no fun :P
Raiders carry molotovs and grenades before long, and these don't cost any wood so I'd argue they're cheaper options once available (faster too).
I don't care much either way whether colony uses drugs or not. They have their place but there's lots of ways to build value in this game.
Quote from: erdrik on October 19, 2017, 10:55:40 AM
Quote from: Grishnerf on October 19, 2017, 10:51:56 AM
...
but a colony without drugs = no fun :P
Says you.
A colony WITH drugs = no fun.
yeah taste differs, for me most fun in this game is the chaotic nature of some mechanics.
a stable colony is boring for me.
@TheMeInTeam sure, but i would use the grenades on more serious threats than some drugs on the ground.
I personally always grow lots of psychoid plants and turn them into yayo or flake.
They are a great commodity to sell because they weight practically nothing and have a high value so you can easily caravan them to the next outlander base and sell them for new bionics and whatever.
Also luciferium and wake-up will turn your master crafter into a crafting machine producing tons of art, weapons, whatever.
The occasional binge of a chemically fascinated character is an acceptable drawback in my opinion. Have them snort their flake if they want to... they look so happy afterwards ;D
To summarize how to deal with chemically facinated pawns:
- deal with it and let them go on binges
- kill them
- don't recruit them
- send them on caravan duty without drugs
- burn all your drugs
- wall off your drugs
How to deal with addiciton:
- Supply the addiction and live with it
- hock them on a high-joy drug instead to help them through withdrawl
- wall them into a seperate enclosure and wait till the addiction is over
Quote from: Grishnerf on October 19, 2017, 11:16:07 AM
Quote from: erdrik on October 19, 2017, 10:55:40 AM
Quote from: Grishnerf on October 19, 2017, 10:51:56 AM
...
but a colony without drugs = no fun :P
Says you.
A colony WITH drugs = no fun.
yeah taste differs, for me most fun in this game is the chaotic nature of some mechanics.
a stable colony is boring for me.
@TheMeInTeam sure, but i would use the grenades on more serious threats than some drugs on the ground.
The grenade weapon is like any other weapon. If a pawn is carrying it, you can keep throwing grenades non-stop until your pawn collapses from hunger or exhaustion, and you'll still have just as many as before. Molotovs are the same way, though you obviously want to make sure the fire doesn't spread to things you care about.
Only stuff like doomsdays/triple rockets are lost on use.
My last colony was no drugs colony, so I wanted to try the good use of drug colony.
Yes, i did not pay attention to this stat at the start of a game as I had no idea how it will affect it. It really finished being micro-intensive char.
I wonder maybe send him to second, no drug base? I dod not played with 2 bases yes. I wonder is it too much micro to look after 2 bases?
While we're talking about drugs, what's the effective difference between "chemical interest" & "chemical fascination" traits? Wiki isn't clear (& sadly doesn't obviously group the two together).. Does either include Lucy?
Quote from: Snafu_RW on October 20, 2017, 06:06:30 PM
While we're talking about drugs, what's the effective difference between "chemical interest" & "chemical fascination" traits? Wiki isn't clear (& sadly doesn't obviously group the two together).. Does either include Lucy?
Very big. I have 2 of chemical interest guys. They binge only on soft drugs, ambrosia, Joints. alcohol. They are not interested in Hurd drugs.
Quote from: Snafu_RW on October 20, 2017, 06:06:30 PM
While we're talking about drugs, what's the effective difference between "chemical interest" & "chemical fascination" traits? Wiki isn't clear (& sadly doesn't obviously group the two together).. Does either include Lucy?
interest pawns binge much more rarely.
fascination pawns binge OFTEN.
they will never binge on luciferium, and i'm not sure about ambrosia.
Long story short, there is no real way to deal with chem fascination/interest. Like pyromania and diseases, it's little more than a timed "fuck you" button that gets pressed every now and then and you have to deal with it. Beating your own pawns senseless or walling them in isn't really a solution, the damage done to your colony with these methods are about as large as the binges themselves cause. The best thing to do is avoid the trait in your starting group and turn down any junkies unless you're desperate for fresh bodies.
If you somehow end up with one anyway, I suggest you turn them into a drugged up super mercenary. Get them hooked on Go-Juice and Yayo, give them a good weapon and maybe some bionics and put them on the front line. The problem will then sort itself out eventually.
Easy - draft 3-4 pawns, remove their weapons, and have them beat the drug binger to a pulp. then heal him up. with fists you rarely will leave a permanent mark. Just make sure you don't equip any chemical-fascinate traited pawns that can potentially go drug binge with any dangerous melee weapons like swords or spears b/c those can seriously hurt your "intervention" group.
I find this method the easiest with least impact to ur colony compared to the other popular methods, ie - walling off the drug, or going with 0 drug colony.
Quote from: dkmoo on October 22, 2017, 12:28:03 PM
Easy - draft 3-4 pawns, remove their weapons, and have them beat the drug binger to a pulp. then heal him up. with fists you rarely will leave a permanent mark. Just make sure you don't equip any chemical-fascinate traited pawns that can potentially go drug binge with any dangerous melee weapons like swords or spears b/c those can seriously hurt your "intervention" group.
I find this method the easiest with least impact to ur colony compared to the other popular methods, ie - walling off the drug, or going with 0 drug colony.
least impact? This gives you:
-temporarily 4-5 pawns out of action
-risk of permanent injury (fingers, ears, noses are VERY easy to destroy with fists)
-risk of death (it happens, especially if they snag some pain-reducing drug)
-unpredictable binges with NO stimulus that can happen any time, for no reason at all, including during a raid, unlike normal mental breaks which can be mitigated by mood boosts.
Chemical traits, pyromaniac are honestly badly done traits, because they remove preparation from the equation. You can plan for abrasive pawns, for brawler pawns, for jealous pawns, for volatile pawns, and any other kind of pawn, but there is no stopping the binges of pyro/chem pawns.
Quote from: Limdood on October 22, 2017, 12:40:42 PM
Quote from: dkmoo on October 22, 2017, 12:28:03 PM
Easy - draft 3-4 pawns, remove their weapons, and have them beat the drug binger to a pulp. then heal him up. with fists you rarely will leave a permanent mark. Just make sure you don't equip any chemical-fascinate traited pawns that can potentially go drug binge with any dangerous melee weapons like swords or spears b/c those can seriously hurt your "intervention" group.
I find this method the easiest with least impact to ur colony compared to the other popular methods, ie - walling off the drug, or going with 0 drug colony.
least impact? This gives you:
-temporarily 4-5 pawns out of action
-risk of permanent injury (fingers, ears, noses are VERY easy to destroy with fists)
-risk of death (it happens, especially if they snag some pain-reducing drug)
-unpredictable binges with NO stimulus that can happen any time, for no reason at all, including during a raid, unlike normal mental breaks which can be mitigated by mood boosts.
Chemical traits, pyromaniac are honestly badly done traits, because they remove preparation from the equation. You can plan for abrasive pawns, for brawler pawns, for jealous pawns, for volatile pawns, and any other kind of pawn, but there is no stopping the binges of pyro/chem pawns.
Well, let's look at the alternatives (at least my experience with my play style)
1) no drug colony - you give up a very lucrative source of revenue, usually not an option for me. Even so, the binger will still wonder aimlessly for a while....
2) Walling off:
a) will occupy ur builder to deconstruct/reconstruct the wall. will need a few haulers to haul whatever's outside the walled off area. and will need them again to haul them back out into ur orbital trader area once the binge is finished. Plus the micro involved to make sure you don't wall the binger into the wall as he makes the made-dash into the drug stash.
b) All this takes time to finish, and the binger usually can still get few doses off before the wall is complete. depending on what he takes that can result in addiction.
c) Granted i've use this method a lot too, esp in early game. But once late game starts where you got a lot of things going on and a big stash of yayo for sale, i just can't be bothered to do all of that.. :P
Drafting on the other hand -
1) "temporarily 4-5 out of action" - well, the binger will always be out of action, plus the binger's mood will usually be low (before he takes the first drug) that a few punches is all that's needed to bring him down. Plus you save 3-4 pawns from building wall/hauling drugs back a forth.
2) risk of injury to drafters - key is to bring the binger down fast so maybe one of drafters will suffer a few punches from the binger. As long as the binger doesn't have dangers melee weapons, that's a minimal risk and the injury to the one drafter doesn't necessarily need to even be treated (since no open cut).
3) risk to binger - some permanent dmg can be fixed. and if I accidentally kill him, yes that's a risk but it's one i'm willing to live with, esp in late game. the upside of that is that after the "dead colonist" debuff expires, your "drug binger" problem will be permanently resolved. ;)
I don't disagree with you that it's a riskier solution, and the walling off is probably better during early games. And yes, there will be "sh1t hit the fan" situations that nothing's really a perfect solution. But in late games with large colony, to me, drafting is the quickest way to end the binger and the risk i can live with.
At the end of the day, my current solution seems to work. I basically leave drugs in my workshop room, far away from research room my problematic pawn usually works. Workshop room always has a bunch of people working, so when pawn going to binge and makes run to drug pile, I arm people in the workroom with wood and try to arrest him before he gets first dose. If he resists, they beat him with a wood stick which seems to work remarkably well.
Lock up your colonist until they get over their addiction. Use the straightjacket mod to keep them from going berserk and running rabid.