Because using an electric standing lamp is a serious fire hazard due to the risk of electrical faults 8)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZUDqwIr.png)
So what you are saying is that torches should be an even worse fire risk. ;)
You might want to replace the heater with a campfire just to be *really* sure nothing catches fire.
LOL!
I just don't light my barn. Creatures don't care and people aren't in there enough for it to matter.
And I don't even keep hay.
I'm surprised torches don't start fires; I'm pretty sure that campfires do. :S
Campfires and torches do not start fires....cannot start fires (they'll never "catch" or short out or anything).
That heater is safe too...the wire from it clearly exits the building, and only conduits can catch fire...so unless a drop pod crashes in right on top of it, failing to destroy it, during the rain, which then immediately shorts the heater....it'll be fine.
But yeah, lighting barns is unnecessary. Heating them is unnecessary unless the temperature will drop to the danger zone for animals (they don't care if they sleep in cold).
This picture also makes me glad i use stack size mods to fit thousands of hay in 1 tile.
Yup seems fine, Don't mind if i do... *Grabs some Molotov cocktails*
MENTAL BREAK: Fire starting spree
Quote from: Shurp on November 06, 2018, 06:48:12 PM
You might want to replace the heater with a campfire just to be *really* sure nothing catches fire.
LOL!
I actually didn't think of that, so it's kinda lol ;). But as someone mentioned here it's only the wire that can fault and that is outside the building. I guess I could just put a standing lamp in the same position and also make that fireproof, but then the whole room wouldn't be lit. I need it in the middle to light up everything.
Quote from: Limdood on November 06, 2018, 10:33:24 PM
Campfires and torches do not start fires....cannot start fires (they'll never "catch" or short out or anything).
That heater is safe too...the wire from it clearly exits the building, and only conduits can catch fire...so unless a drop pod crashes in right on top of it, failing to destroy it, during the rain, which then immediately shorts the heater....it'll be fine.
But yeah, lighting barns is unnecessary. Heating them is unnecessary unless the temperature will drop to the danger zone for animals (they don't care if they sleep in cold).
This picture also makes me glad i use stack size mods to fit thousands of hay in 1 tile.
I think I would feel using mod to stack hay would be a bit cheating (not saying you're cheating, everyone has their preference for gameplay). I like having to figure out where/how to store my hay so it don't rot during so there is enough for my animals. This barn is the solution. The heater and the coolers are set to 1 degree. Animals don't freeze during cold snap (it can get very cold at times, even with this barn the pigs and turkeys still develop the minor hypothermia thing, the "shrivering" part, but it doesn't get worse because they go into the barn for a while. Without the barn, during cold snap the hypotermia gets worse for them. So I think I prevent my pregnant pigs from having an unwanted abortion, fertilized eggs wont get ruined (either by frost or heat) and my hay will stay fresh decreasing the need for hay fields. I know that lighting the barn is not necessary, but in real life I think it would. The room would be too dark to work in. How will you find the eggs in the hay if it is dark as night? Also it helps pawns avoid the darkness debuff when they go in there.
It's not only in the barn btw, I have torches out in my fields too so the peasants.. I mean pawns, can work night shift too.
Quote from: Thane on November 06, 2018, 06:09:26 PM
So what you are saying is that torches should be an even worse fire risk. ;)
Yeah definately lol, it should be a huge fire risk in fact, it does bug me that it's totally fireproof.
Quote from: Limdood on November 06, 2018, 10:33:24 PM
Campfires and torches do not start fires
Really? I could have sworn at some point in the last couple months before release, that I had fires start in rooms that had flammables beside campfires...
Ummm....why don't birds leave their eggs "inside" the animal beds?
Disclaimer: I have never risen a chicken coop myself in real life...but every depiction I have seen on TV movies and documentaries...eggs are not just laying around on the floor...
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on November 07, 2018, 08:25:19 AM
Disclaimer: I have never risen a chicken coop myself in real life...but every depiction I have seen on TV movies and documentaries...eggs are not just laying around on the floor...
Depends how you keep your chickens.
Actual free-range hens usually have little hay-filled boxes designed for them laying eggs and laying on them without hatching them (I don't know the proper english term for this) but it's up to the hen whether to use them. Often you'll find eggs all over the place because some hens might not like the boxes, some might be afraid of predators so they lay them where they're hard to find and some hens are just plain weird and refuse to lay eggs anywhere except some weird spot where eggs definitly don't belong.
It's obviously different with a factory farm.
Source: Mom kept chickens for over a decade. They're a lot more fun animals than you might think. They're also omnivores and indulge in cannibalism even when they have plenty of other food.
I don't know man, you might wanna douse them in gasoline just in case so that the hay will be wet and not catch fire.
And definitely don't put your hay in steel barrels, those things will BURN!
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on November 07, 2018, 08:25:19 AM
Ummm....why don't birds leave their eggs "inside" the animal beds?
Disclaimer: I have never risen a chicken coop myself in real life...but every depiction I have seen on TV movies and documentaries...eggs are not just laying around on the floor...
I agree, the eggs should be laid in the beds, but they are not.
Quote from: Shurp on November 07, 2018, 06:08:49 PM
And definitely don't put your hay in steel barrels, those things will BURN!
Why is steel flammable btw? I saw that with some steel walls I had taken over for my city walls. A fire started outside the walls and hit that steel wall and it began to burn? Steel doesnt normally burn does?
Steel is flammable, as far as I can tell, to give it a downside to counter-balance how readily available it is compared to other materials. If flammability in the game were two stats (let's say one stat for being damaged by fire, and one stat for being able to spread fires) instead of one, this wouldn't need to be the case. :)
Quote from: AileTheAlien on November 07, 2018, 07:24:56 PM
If flammability in the game were two stats (let's say one stat for being damaged by fire, and one stat forbeing able to spread fires) instead of one, this wouldn't need to be the case. :)
Why do I have a sudden urge to start a "jet fuel can't melt steel beams" flamewar?
OK, in my defense: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzF1KySHmUA
Until Z-levels are implemented, I don't think that Rimworld steel construction has anything to fear from any fire.
Quote from: walleras on November 07, 2018, 11:12:45 AM
I don't know man, you might wanna douse them in gasoline just in case so that the hay will be wet and not catch fire.
+1 for this terrific idea :D
Quote from: cultist on November 07, 2018, 09:58:58 AM
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on November 07, 2018, 08:25:19 AM
Disclaimer: I have never risen a chicken coop myself in real life...but every depiction I have seen on TV movies and documentaries...eggs are not just laying around on the floor...
Depends how you keep your chickens.
Actual free-range hens usually have little hay-filled boxes designed for them laying eggs and laying on them without hatching them (I don't know the proper english term for this) but it's up to the hen whether to use them. Often you'll find eggs all over the place because some hens might not like the boxes, some might be afraid of predators so they lay them where they're hard to find and some hens are just plain weird and refuse to lay eggs anywhere except some weird spot where eggs definitly don't belong.
It's obviously different with a factory farm.
Source: Mom kept chickens for over a decade. They're a lot more fun animals than you might think. They're also omnivores and indulge in cannibalism even when they have plenty of other food.
I like the insight you bring here, it's going to add to my experience in game :)
Quote from: AileTheAlien on November 07, 2018, 07:24:56 PM
Steel is flammable, as far as I can tell, to give it a downside to counter-balance how readily available it is compared to other materials. If flammability in the game were two stats (let's say one stat for being damaged by fire, and one stat forbeing able to spread fires) instead of one, this wouldn't need to be the case. :)
I agree that steel does need a downside, so in that respect it is balanced. But is steel walls flammable in real life? I don't think so, especially not a solid steel wall exposed to a forest fire. unless we are assuming that half of the wall is made up of wooden support beams or some such (but the steel wall sprite does not support this idea at all, it looks like a solid block of hard steel). I would probably wish some other way to give steel a downside. Why not double or triple the construction costs and building time needed instead of flammability? I would think that much more appropriate.
Quote from: jayman1000 on November 08, 2018, 09:52:35 AMWhy not double or triple the construction costs and building time needed instead of flammability?
If you did that, then steel walls would basically be the same as stone walls. Not completely, since stone is stronger, and pretty, but pretty close. From what I can see, the things you could adjust, to differentiate walls (or any structure) from each other, and fill unique roles are:
- total cost
- silver can buy other materials, so in some ways it's useful to just abstract this to a flat cost
- on the other hand, some materials are only sold by certain traders, or take a long time to craft, so they could be considered separately
- time to construct
- flammability
- hitpoints
- beauty
- minimum skill to construct
- no walls use this stat, so we can ignore it in the following examples, unless somebody wants to mod in walls that take skill
Current walls in the game:
- wood is cheap, fast, flammable, weak, neutral looks
- steel is cheap(-ish), fast, medium flammable, medium strength, neutral looks
- stone is medium cost (blocks need to be crafted, but chunks are plentiful), slow, non-flammable, strong, pretty
- silver and gold are high cost, medium flammable, medium strength, pretty
- jade is high cost, non-flammable (I think - might be wrong), medium strength, pretty
Personally, I think having steel walls cost more, but still be fast to build would make sense. Steel in real life is basically fast to work with, since you just weld large pieces of it together, or cut it to size or shape. Laying bricks (heavy) into mortar (needs alignment) is slow in real life, so it can stay slow in game. :)
Quote from: AileTheAlien on November 08, 2018, 01:34:08 PM
Quote from: jayman1000 on November 08, 2018, 09:52:35 AMWhy not double or triple the construction costs and building time needed instead of flammability?
If you did that, then steel walls would basically be the same as stone walls. Not completely, since stone is stronger, and pretty, but pretty close. From what I can see, the things you could adjust, to differentiate walls (or any structure) from each other, and fill unique roles are:
- total cost
- silver can buy other materials, so in some ways it's useful to just abstract this to a flat cost
- on the other hand, some materials are only sold by certain traders, or take a long time to craft, so they could be considered separately
- time to construct
- flammability
- hitpoints
- beauty
- minimum skill to construct
- no walls use this stat, so we can ignore it in the following examples, unless somebody wants to mod in walls that take skill
Current walls in the game:
- wood is cheap, fast, flammable, weak, neutral looks
- steel is cheap(-ish), fast, medium flammable, medium strength, neutral looks
- stone is medium cost (blocks need to be crafted, but chunks are plentiful), slow, non-flammable, strong, pretty
- silver and gold are high cost, medium flammable, medium strength, pretty
- jade is high cost, non-flammable (I think - might be wrong), medium strength, pretty
Personally, I think having steel walls cost more, but still be fast to build would make sense. Steel in real life is basically fast to work with, since you just weld large pieces of it together, or cut it to size or shape. Laying bricks (heavy) into mortar (needs alignment) is slow in real life, so it can stay slow in game. :)
Those are all good suggestions I certainly can agree with much of it.
Why not add a slag state where the wall becomes useless after a certain amount of time exposed to a high enough temperature. For example 911 degrees. That way Steel walls aren't invincible to fire, but they also don't spread it.
On a side note, RIP my secure cooler when I thought steel was inflammable.
I think you'd have to modify the fire code to accomplish this. Right now only objects that are on fire take fire damage. Adjacent objects don't. If objects adjacent took damage even if they don't burn... but then sandstone walls would get damaged too which would make even less sense.
Let's just go with theory that carbon steel on rimworld has a *lot* of carbon in it :)
Makes me want to write a fan fic about the situation.
Trader: Whats with the coal walls?
Colonist: Coal?! Those are steel!
Flammable steel might be one of the most absurd balancing-decisions ever. Yes, there is a lot of steel early on and making walls out of it might therefore look like a good idea to some. But i don't see, why that would need balancing.
Steel should not be flammable and it should offer good protection and bad insulation. Also, steel walls are easy to make.
But everything tech needs shit-tons of steel and therefore it already is way too precious to waste on walls anyway.
If you don't have any steel to mine, or no skilled miners, steel is worth saving. Otherwise, it's relatively abundant, compared to the cost of many other items you'll need in your base. A vent takes as much steel as 6 tiles of wall. A fueled stove takes 16. A steel sculptor's table takes 25. A single solar panel or wind turbine takes 20 tiles, and a geothermal generator is worth 80 tiles. A reasonable combination of those things will easily cost at least double the amount you'd spend on walls, if not more.
Once you have any kind of supply, it's not worth worrying about either. Each tile of steel ore is worth 7 tiles of wall, and each slag chunk is worth 4. Unless you're building lots of huge rooms, you'll have more than enough steel to cover the cost of walls.
Quote from: AileTheAlien on November 09, 2018, 10:51:59 PM
Unless you're building lots of huge rooms, you'll have more than enough steel to cover the cost of walls.
I do not even use steel for my walls - but still never have enough of it for all the nice things i like to have in my colony.
Steel always is a pretty precious resource for my colonists. It is taboo to waste it on something that can be made without it.
Indeed, more than its flammability, the quantity is much more concerning. These days you can't even build sandbags on temporary maps like caravan events. I really don't understand Tynan's mind:
First of all: why are sandbags made of steel? Specially with all the furs laying eternally on my main storage with no use whatsoever.
Secondly: why can't we mine them anymore outside, in world quest incidents? How many of you players used to mine steel and build a mini base when raiding enemy outposts?
Thirdly: considering the cost bumps on literary everything, why is there always so little to mine out in the colony map?
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on November 09, 2018, 11:36:59 PM
First of all: why are sandbags made of steel? Specially with all the furs laying eternally on my main storage with no use whatsoever.
This drives me nuts too. Feels like a placeholder that never got revisited. My only thought is that it represents the tools used to construct them but a) that makes no sense when they don't get used up constructing anything else and b) that makes no sense because why are you breaking so many tools bagging sand and c) why do you get the steel back when deconstructing?
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on November 09, 2018, 11:36:59 PM
Secondly: why can't we mine them anymore outside, in world quest incidents? How many of you players used to mine steel and build a mini base when raiding enemy outposts?
You can't mine them on temporary maps for the same reason you can't mine them on your map: They're not a mineable resource. You can however claim them and deconstruct them. You can claim anything on the map after you've won, including turrets which can be an early game boon, and carry them with you. You can also claim the door on a building so you don't have to blow a hole in the wall to see what's inside.
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on November 09, 2018, 11:36:59 PM
Thirdly: considering the cost bumps on literary everything, why is there always so little to mine out in the colony map?
No opinion on this. Other than late game plasteel I think resource amounts are pretty well balanced, actually. But I tend to not get all that extravagant with my construction.
Guys, there's not even a need for a chimney, so....
Quote from: dearmad on November 11, 2018, 01:37:49 PM
Guys, there's not even a need for a chimney, so....
Chimneys are included in the generic roof. :P