Because my latest colony is a monstrous nightmare populated by psychically deaf cannibals they've started harvesting the organs of anyone who isn't psychically deaf. The problem is that prisoners keep dying before we get all of the good organs out of them. What's the best order to harvest the organs in and is it possible to get everything out of them before they die?
You can always check the wiki if you're unsure, here's a big ol' table: http://rimworldwiki.com/wiki/Human
You can take the following safely without someone dying:
Lastly, you can take either the other lung, the other kidney, their heart or their liver. You don't want to take their heart or liver first, because the patient will die without those (they're sort of essential).
I think blood loss might also factor in. So at least bandage them up before surgery; I've had that prematurely kill an organ donor or two who've been operated on right after being a battle casualty.
Anything that drops the associated stat to 0 will kill the patient regardless. So bandaging is unneeded if you're harvesting, just Harvest a kidney and a lung then either a heart, liver, or another kidney/lung. In which the patient will die.
Off Topic, but now that the new Alpha has come out, the Rimworld forum has THE BEST topic titles.
Quote from: Coenmcj on October 08, 2014, 07:53:20 PM
Anything that drops the associated stat to 0 will kill the patient regardless. So bandaging is unneeded if you're harvesting, just Harvest a kidney and a lung then either a heart, liver, or another kidney/lung. In which the patient will die.
Only for essential stats, to clarify.
You can't harvest eyes/arms/limbs, but they're not essential living.
Quote from: StorymasterQ on October 08, 2014, 10:01:51 PM
Off Topic, but now that the new Alpha has come out, the Rimworld forum has THE BEST topic titles.
I know, my 9-year old foster kid plays Rimworld, but I'm kind of worried if I should put this latest alpha on his computer. His gleeful reaction to cannibalism was scary enough...
in most cases there is no reason to harvest organs if you don't need replacement for essential colonist.
cotton farm will provide more *money*
Quote from: RawCode on October 09, 2014, 04:39:15 AM
in most cases there is no reason to harvest organs if you don't need replacement for essential colonist.
cotton farm will provide more *money*
They are a resource to be utilized. A cotton farm may provide you with more money, but a cotton farm AND harvesting organs will provide even more money....
I have a couple spare kidneys/lungs on hand, but mostly I just sell prisoners off, euthanize them, execute them if they proof to be to difficult to recruit. No need to spend medicine on them. All these "spare parts" just clutter my beacon and med-bay and I like it neat and tidy.
Quote from: RawCode on October 09, 2014, 04:39:15 AM
in most cases there is no reason to harvest organs if you don't need replacement for essential colonist.
My morbid collections of body parts beg to differ.
Quote from: Damien Hart on October 09, 2014, 07:12:01 AM
My morbid collections of body parts beg to differ.
That plus your avatar makes me nervous of you :P
I'm glad I don't live in your colony!! ;)
Quote from: milon on October 09, 2014, 08:18:12 AM
Quote from: Damien Hart on October 09, 2014, 07:12:01 AM
My morbid collections of body parts beg to differ.
That plus your avatar makes me nervous of you :P
I'm glad I don't live in your colony!! ;)
Yeah, I don't blame you... :P
But hey, no one can say that my colony is messy; all the hearts get arrayed neatly around the perimeter of the common room, a testament to what happens to misbehaving colonists. And for my next playthrough, I'll be lining my bedrooms with lungs and kidneys (I was selling them last time - opportunity missed!).
I should take up a career as an interior decorator!
One thing I don't understand. Liver regenerates. It can regrow itself if it's 1/3 of the original mass. Why can't we pull out half a liver from a colonist to use for another?
I think the issue is the connections to each lobe don't grow back, and those connections are used in the transplant. So while your remaining lobe will grow to replace the removed lobe, the regrown lobe won't have a usable connection.
http://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/2hkkyt/if_i_donate_part_of_my_liver_to_someone_the_liver/cktp2c2
Yes, that I understand. But living liver donation are a fact. Maybe only once.
i find harvesting the eyes a lung and a kidney and any non-essential impants ie: Peg leg, bionics ect. then selling the body to a slave trader is fairly profitable
I think that removing both kidneys should cause problems after day or two but not kill the pawn instantly. After all there are real people who live without them.
@hunter2012, You can harvest eyes? Wow, I missed that one!
@Exe19, I agree that would be more realistic, but in alpha 7 it would be too overpowered. Maybe in a future alpha when there's mood penalties etc it would work better.
@milon No glaucoma for my colonists yes sirrey
just found out the eye harvesting is from apothocarius mod
Can you transplant a heart or a liver to an injured colonist or are those types of injury deadly anyway?
I have two prisoners who I don't want for my colony. One is a nervous wreck and the other one has almost everything disabled. I removed a lung and a kidney each already and now I have to decide if I sell them to a slaver or harvest a liver or heart. Selling them will have a negative emotional impact on my colonists, what about chopping them up for parts?
Quote from: Col_Jessep on October 12, 2014, 08:30:15 AM
Can you transplant a heart or a liver to an injured colonist or are those types of injury deadly anyway?
I have two prisoners who I don't want for my colony. One is a nervous wreck and the other one has almost everything disabled. I removed a lung and a kidney each already and now I have to decide if I sell them to a slaver or harvest a liver or heart. Selling them will have a negative emotional impact on my colonists, what about chopping them up for parts?
The only reason to transplant is for permanent old wounds.
No penalty for
harvesting livestock stealing prisoners' organs until alpha 8 ;D
I think we should be able to harvest organs and implants from recently dead people. Organs only give you 100 - 150 per, where unless they are crippled from the fight I don't have any reason to harvest and sell them.
Quote from: Damien Hart on October 12, 2014, 08:51:45 AMThe only reason to transplant is for permanent old wounds.
No penalty for harvesting livestock stealing prisoners' organs until alpha 8 ;D
Thanks, in that case I'll keep one of the prisoners for training my empath and sell the other. 8)
Quote from: killerx243 on October 12, 2014, 09:53:43 AM
I think we should be able to harvest organs and implants from recently dead people. Organs only give you 100 - 150 per, where unless they are crippled from the fight I don't have any reason to harvest and sell them.
Balance reasons I think. A corpse could feasibly provide you with 6 internal organs (heart, liver, lungs, kidneys) each with a base value of 250. Multiply by the number of corpses and you get way too much money.
Quote from: Col_Jessep on October 12, 2014, 12:10:22 PM
Thanks, in that case I'll keep one of the prisoners for training my empath and sell the other. 8)
An empath? Gross. I hear they have long, thin tongues that they insert into the brain either through the nose, ear or eye, in order to make a "deeper emotional connection"... Enjoy those mental images. ;D
Quote from: Damien Hart on October 12, 2014, 12:46:05 PM
Balance reasons I think. A corpse could feasibly provide you with 6 internal organs (heart, liver, lungs, kidneys) each with a base value of 250. Multiply by the number of corpses and you get way too much money.
It might break the balance, but people might need those organs for more than just selling. There should be a supply & demand system for organs, so people aren't tempted to profit off them alone. For example, the price of certain organs could be reduced for each of that organ you sell, with a really long cool-down (perhaps a full in-game season) before the price normalizes. The reverse could be done for buying organs (increaed prices for each of that organ bought, etc.), so that you can't simply buy out their entire stock every time traders come. If they did this, I could see them adding more options for organ harvesting.
...I just had to say this much, since I simply love the balancing potential of supply and demand systems. ^_^
While I agree that a system of supply and demand would be interesting, the issue I see is that a supply and demand system could be crippling in the long term for a colony that has a heavy reliance on trade.
Generally speaking, people don't buy and sell the same item - medicine, for example, is always bought and rarely sold. So while medical prices skyrocket, prices of the colony's regular exports plummet, but demand for medicine (or bionics, or food in a harsh environment) is constantly on the increase.
On the subject of corpse harvesting, there's also the fact that transplants are uncommon, because transplantable organs are usually either fatal when injured, or they recover completely. Survival chance is low, the chance of permanent injury is low, and together they make the chance of requiring a transplant practically a "1 in a million" thing. There are possibly age related injuries to think of, though I don't recall any in-game at this stage.
Ironically, the non-transplantable brain is pretty much guaranteed to develop a permanent injury if non-fatally wounded.
Quote from: Damien Hart on January 24, 2015, 11:05:07 AM
While I agree that a system of supply and demand would be interesting, the issue I see is that a supply and demand system could be crippling in the long term for a colony that has a heavy reliance on trade.
Generally speaking, people don't buy and sell the same item - medicine, for example, is always bought and rarely sold. So while medical prices skyrocket, prices of the colony's regular exports plummet, but demand for medicine (or bionics, or food in a harsh environment) is constantly on the increase.
On the subject of corpse harvesting, there's also the fact that transplants are uncommon, because transplantable organs are usually either fatal when injured, or they recover completely. Survival chance is low, the chance of permanent injury is low, and together they make the chance of requiring a transplant practically a "1 in a million" thing. There are possibly age related injuries to think of, though I don't recall any in-game at this stage.
Ironically, the non-transplantable brain is pretty much guaranteed to develop a permanent injury if non-fatally wounded.
I do see what you mean, but most of what you brought up I already addressed:
I accounted for the long-term when I said the changes in prices would wear off after a while. In other words, the prices might go up/down, but as long as you don't buy too many of one item constantly, this would rarely affect a player in the long term. To use your example, let's say a player buys all of a trader's stock of medicine in Winter. The prices would skyrocket in the short term, but with the season-long cool-down I mentioned, the prices would be back to normal by Spring.
People may not buy and sell the same thing, but that's the point: the people that always buy out the traders in certain products and sell all of other products will be forced to take into consideration whether to buy/sell everything at a slightly greater cost/lower profit, or to spread out and balance their purchases to maximize profits/savings.
Also, keep in mind that corpse harvesting is not the same as organ transplants. Harvesting organs is done by going to prisoners or otherwise incapacitated characters, and
removing their organs,
not replacing them. You don't have any requirements other than medicine for harvesting organs, and you generally harvest organs from those you don't want to keep in your colony, and you usually either kill or sell them afterwards. As for age-related injuries:
bad back and
cataracts are the two current age-related injuries in the game.
I'll also add that with a relatively short cool-down, all this would really do is stop people from over-profiting by selling too many organs at once. They would end up keeping duplicates for a while, preferring to sell them later for a better profit. So in addition to balancing the game, it ends up making the more budget-savvy players pace themselves! ;D
The cool down is really more of an issue in the late game - when all the metal on the map is exhausted, you'll always be buying metal; when the raider waves are becoming particularly aggressive, you can't afford to wait for a cool down to buy medicine, you have to grab everything that presents itself.
Your comment about having short-term cool downs to prevent bulk selling would make an effective alternative though.
As far as corpse harvesting vs transplants, it was in reply to your statement
Quote from: shade88 on January 23, 2015, 04:40:28 PM
It might break the balance, but people might need those organs for more than just selling.
Unless you have some purpose other than transplants in mind, I'm not aware of any other use than selling them? Also, bad back and cataracts aren't fixable via transplant, only bionics (for cataracts, anyway).
off topic but, I've had a few times were a prisoner had an infected kidney(untreated) i removed the other by mistake, and then a lung (to balance the cost of medicine used) The prisoner survived a long time 6-7 days maybe as that was when i notice another prisoner lying on top of his dead body.
Question 1 : How long does it take for an infection to "kill" colonist?
Question 2 : Will "addiction" effect organs and colonist condition in Alpha 9?
Quote from: Damien Hart on January 25, 2015, 08:28:04 PM
The cool down is really more of an issue in the late game - when all the metal on the map is exhausted, you'll always be buying metal; when the raider waves are becoming particularly aggressive, you can't afford to wait for a cool down to buy medicine, you have to grab everything that presents itself.
Your comment about having short-term cool downs to prevent bulk selling would make an effective alternative though.
As far as corpse harvesting vs transplants, it was in reply to your statement
Quote from: shade88 on January 23, 2015, 04:40:28 PM
It might break the balance, but people might need those organs for more than just selling.
Unless you have some purpose other than transplants in mind, I'm not aware of any other use than selling them? Also, bad back and cataracts aren't fixable via transplant, only bionics (for cataracts, anyway).
Ah, I think I see what you're saying. I think I was unclear in my initial response: What I should have said, was that while the limitations to selling too many organs is reasonable, it shouldn't also limit the transplant system. I presented the supply and demand system, because I saw it as a way to free up more options for transplants, while still restricting those who'd try to exploit the system to get a game-breaking amount of money. Also, I forgot to mention this in my last post, but I didn't intend to include anything other than organs in the hypothetical supply and demand system.
Later on, I said the same thing mirrored: people might use organs for transplants, but the reason a supply and demand system would be needed is because they won't be using those organs for transplants alone; they'll also be selling them.
As for bad back and cataracts, I was answering your comment that you couldn't think of any age-related injuries.If there were more harvestable organs, however, then there would likely be options to transplant eyes, which was actually one of my points (though I agree a spine transplant is...unlikely). I think we're arguing the same point on this one. :D
In short:
-People should have more transplant options.
-Supply and demand would be an example of how to keep the game balanced after adding new organs to the transplant system.
-There are probably better methods than supply and demand, but the point is to keep the limitations to the organ trading, not the organs
themselves
Quote from: Feirfec on January 25, 2015, 09:16:44 PM
off topic but, I've had a few times were a prisoner had an infected kidney(untreated) i removed the other by mistake, and then a lung (to balance the cost of medicine used) The prisoner survived a long time 6-7 days maybe as that was when i notice another prisoner lying on top of his dead body.
Question 1 : How long does it take for an infection to "kill" colonist?
Question 2 : Will "addiction" effect organs and colonist condition in Alpha 9?
It depends on how often they stay in bed, and whether or not they're treated at each stage of the infection. I've had colonists die in just 2-3 days because I had them active and didn't treat them, while it's actually possible for a well-rested, regularly treated colonist to "develop an immunity" to the infection. Resting colonists and those that have been treated develop the immunity faster, while active and untreated colonists might not develop it in time, which kills them at the end of the infection's final stage ("extreme"). I'm not sure how long it takes for the infection to progress to the next stage, but it's basically a race to have them develop an immunity before the infection becomes fatal.
I'm not sure if addiction will affect organs in Alpha 9, but if it's anything like the caffeine addiction from the coffee mod, it might become something like a permanent penalty to the colonist's mood (like pessimist or depressive), that only disappears for a time if they satisfy their urge to drink.
Oh, I didn't realise you meant have supply/demand exclusive to organs; that doesn't really strike me as the sort of thing that would fit well. It's sort of doing things in half measures - if it goes in for one thing, it only makes sense to extend it to everything else that's relevant (in this case, all tradeable items).
A point I hadn't considered would be the fact that traders are at some point going to be tied more to the factions; if supply and demand fluctuated differently for each faction, and there were enough factions to support it properly, the system may actually work quite well.
I wasn't saying that supply and demand would limit the transplant system, I was saying that the transplant system isn't used enough to necessitate harvesting corpses (the supply already outweighs the demand). On top of that, a supply and demand system would further decrease a colony's need for organs, not being able to sell them in any large quantity, rendering the practice more or less pointless.
If demand were to increase at some point, like if alcohol consumption leads to liver damage, requiring a transplant, and a host similar situations, I would agree that corpse organs would be useful, but as the current game balance stands, it's unnecessary.
I agree; as the game currently is, there's little to no need for changing the current transplant system. However, I do hope transplants take on a large enough role in the future that such a system is plausible. ;)