So I'm guessing people change carry shields ??????
They're energy shields which stop projectiles but allow melee attacks (in and out).
It's an interesting idea, and a reason to bring a knife to a gun fight. I assume the intent is to bring purpose to melee weapons.
Quote from: _alphaBeta_ on December 29, 2014, 01:26:07 PM
It's an interesting idea, and a reason to bring a knife to a gun fight. I assume the intent is to bring purpose to melee weapons.
Yes indeed :)
Also seems like a nice way to combat those lovely m24 one-shot-kills when fighting sieges.
Quote from: Tynan on December 29, 2014, 01:20:47 PM
They're energy shields which stop projectiles but allow melee attacks (in and out).
Sounds like someone was reading Dune. ;)
Will this be somewhat like borderlands sheilds, in that they block 1, maybe 2 or 3 small bullets, but recharge over time? Like, in a skirmish someone could straight tank a stray pistol round, but a 3 round m16 burst would get through? Also, what about heavy attacks, will those have most of the damage removed from the sheild, then the rest gets through?
And yeah I know you said dune, but I'm curious about the mechanics... I honestly think being able to tank a spare bullets would reward careful tactics, and would make the medical system a bit more forgiving.
Well, the idea is to raise the viability of melee weapons.
The basic way the shields work is that you can't shoot in or out. So you'd use one if you were a melee fighter.
They do take damage and lose energy. If they take enough damage they'll pop and take a while to reset. You can also still be shot by people who are in adjacent cells (melee range).
This sounds pretty sweet. I'll admit, my melee fellows have pretty much been relegated to hauling and cleaning. It'll be nice to see them come into their own now.
I also foresee cursing the group of shield-toting power armor wearing bandits that bust through my doors before I can mow them down with hails of bullets.
Quote from: Tynan on December 29, 2014, 03:02:04 PM
Well, the idea is to raise the viability of melee weapons.
The basic way the shields work is that you can't shoot in or out. So you'd use one if you were a melee fighter.
They do take damage and lose energy. If they take enough damage they'll pop and take a while to reset. You can also still be shot by people who are in adjacent cells (melee range).
Eh.... I mean I know why you're adding it but at the same time.... I don't ever use melee for the simple fact that it's pointless nine times out of ten. You don't send a melee fighter against most shooters, if any group is bunched up a melee specialist is going to be obliterated in a moments notice, and should a melee fighter get hit with fire what happens?
Idk just seems a bit odd to add. Now if you make it an item that ANYONE can equip, or make it kind of like a spare life item for people who take violent shots then I might understand a bit.
I anticipate that this will be useful to make it through sniper fire to a position. So EMP grenadiers and shotgunners can make their range.
Quote from: Ramsis on December 29, 2014, 03:13:33 PM
Quote from: Tynan on December 29, 2014, 03:02:04 PM
Well, the idea is to raise the viability of melee weapons.
The basic way the shields work is that you can't shoot in or out. So you'd use one if you were a melee fighter.
They do take damage and lose energy. If they take enough damage they'll pop and take a while to reset. You can also still be shot by people who are in adjacent cells (melee range).
Eh.... I mean I know why you're adding it but at the same time.... I don't ever use melee for the simple fact that it's pointless nine times out of ten. You don't send a melee fighter against most shooters, if any group is bunched up a melee specialist is going to be obliterated in a moments notice, and should a melee fighter get hit with fire what happens?
Idk just seems a bit odd to add. Now if you make it an item that ANYONE can equip, or make it kind of like a spare life item for people who take violent shots then I might understand a bit.
Yeah, but you'll be able to keep your melee fighters out without them just sitting their being pointless. So if you got a couple melee bandits rushing in on you you can move your melee people out to engage without making your shooters waist bullets on them. Also, you can have people repairing autoturrets without getting hit which will be nice.
I think this'll be nice. I never got bandits into tight corridors so melee was never really useful unless I had some guys finishing off wounded bastards who I didn't want to bother capturing.
Out of curiosity, what accessibility level will these shields be at?
Will they be extremely common, mid tier stuff, or up there with AI cores?
Or, will there be differing quality or perhaps even types of shield? Would be neat to see both general purpose with low capacity and specific but high capacity shields, if we really wanted to start fleshing out the high tech.
It would be even better if these shields required charging stations instead of being self-regenerating (Or self-regen being glitterworld fancy expensive tech), so that keeping batteries would start to serve a purpose and be more worth the risk of them suddenly blowing up on you. As it stands, you only really keep batteries for emergencies, and even then it's kinda rare considering a Geothermal or three and you're completely sorted for any power needs, ever. It'd also prevent solo colonists from doing silly things like solo'ing a Scyther by doing hit and run lol.
Quote from: milon on December 29, 2014, 02:49:00 PM
Quote from: Tynan on December 29, 2014, 01:20:47 PM
They're energy shields which stop projectiles but allow melee attacks (in and out).
Sounds like someone was reading Dune. ;)
Guard yourself for true!
Finally Brawler won't be a bad trait to me.
Quote from: Tynan on December 29, 2014, 03:02:04 PM
Well, the idea is to raise the viability of melee weapons.
The basic way the shields work is that you can't shoot in or out. So you'd use one if you were a melee fighter.
So like how police carry shields and batons???
They do take damage and lose energy. If they take enough damage they'll pop and take a while to reset. You can also still be shot by people who are in adjacent cells (melee range).
So something similar to police with shields and batons?… if so 10/10 if not.. then still 10/10
So, like Goa'uld personal shields?
I think shields should require a recharge bay or at-least batteries
also does this mean we will see base shields?
I want the kind of nintendo bullet deflecting shields
the kind the ping them off to different direction and might hit someone else =P
Oh man, finally! I have managed to find use for melee, but this will make brawlers a lot more attractive. This is *almost* as good as a personal cloaking device (modders!).
Hmm, I already see the death of my next alpha colony:
A melee pirate group lands nearby and storms the colony. As my colonists and the turrets are mostly gunners they try but fail to destroy their shields in time. A short while later every one with a gun is fighting close range and failing horribly. Soon after the colony is only a burning ruin..
So I present to you the next arch enemy: space brawlers with personal shields ;)
all of my gunners have power claws or scyther blades, while most of melee raiders usually just carry shivs. so as usual, i'll probably just force melee attack them one at a time as they trickle towards my ranks.
meanwhile, sending a couple of melee units with shields against AI snipers for distraction is gonna be sweet.
Way to pee on the parade, Haplo. :/ Didn't even consider the fact raiders would have them, too.
Personal shields are necessary because the future has yet to invent workable shoulder or leg armor.
Quote from: Nasikabatrachus on December 30, 2014, 08:47:43 PM
Personal shields are necessary because the future has yet to invent workable shoulder or leg armor.
It's a technical impossibility!
Quote from: Haplo on December 30, 2014, 05:05:34 PM
Hmm, I already see the death of my next alpha colony:
A melee pirate group lands nearby and storms the colony. As my colonists and the turrets are mostly gunners they try but fail to destroy their shields in time. A short while later every one with a gun is fighting close range and failing horribly. Soon after the colony is only a burning ruin..
So I present to you the next arch enemy: space brawlers with personal shields ;)
we are sooo going to need new types of defenses
the shields can pop, so its not impossible to kill them, just hard. And point blank bullets pass through so shotguns would actually be extremely viable for them, if you had friends. Infact it could get a little left4dead-ish with keeping each others backs with the colonists, keeping tight for melee attackers and shooting a melee person in the back of the head when hes about to crack your buddies skull in. The possibilities.
Quote from: rbos on December 29, 2014, 03:56:49 PM
I anticipate that this will be useful to make it through sniper fire to a position. So EMP grenadiers and shotgunners can make their range.
I think the idea is the shield removes the choice of a ranged weapon. Otherwise you could just make an inpenetrable wall of shielded m-24s or m-16s.
huzzah! cyber samurai for everyone, I have been making melee weapons and spending all my hard earned blood money on power armour and had a crack team of high level melee fighters. even with armour I did struggle to get them into stabbing range, but now like a light from the heavens Tynan granted my psychotic colonists a mighty boon.
Praise Lord Tynan ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ﾉ
Reminds me of the Goa'uld personal shield from Stargate SG-1.
Pretty neat!
If EMP grenades pop them, that would give us a good reason to use the things. They are basically vendor trash at this point, or are for me.
Quote from: ShootyFace on December 31, 2014, 12:23:45 PM
If EMP grenades pop them, that would give us a good reason to use the things. They are basically vendor trash at this point, or are for me.
yeah they're very limited use after mechanoids started to adapt to emp so fast
(the range is so very short and I don't know if it's changed but after the tosser lobs the damned thing they'll insist on standing still in the line of fire)
If you cant shoot while using a shield whats the point?
Even with shields close combat is not an option because of friendly fire.
I have a lots of injured people because of friendly fire while hunting.
I can't wait to use these personal shields on my Brawler :)
This will both make melee fighters viable and in case of shields "adsorb fixed number of projectiles" - force player to properly select weapons instead of "everyone m24".
QuoteYou can also still be shot by people who are in adjacent cells (melee range).
Could multiple units fit inside a shield held by one unit? I picture using them as great angling and flanking tools if so.
Eg, Some Uzi-wielding colonists walk up while shielded from fire, then leave the cover of the shield to shoot people in the face.
I actually find enemy melee fighters a pain to fight, as they tend to gun up into the middle of my gunline and start wailing on one guy. Then everyone else in the gunline tries to "help" with assault rifles. So now I have a guy trying to hold off a mace-wielding Berzerker with his bare hands, and I have to micro the gunline to prevent any accidents.
To that end I actually like brawlers and tend to deploy them just behind the gunline, ready for rapid response. If the enemy pushes up, Ill have a reliable defense for the squishy shooters. Said "Reliable Defense" is currently taking the form of a Brawler wearing full power armor and wielding an excellent-quality custom-made Plasteel Longsword (I call it Amoracchius).
On that note, can we get an option to name excellently-crafted sculptures and weapons? I'd love to give my blades names in future versions.
Quote from: Noobshock on December 30, 2014, 09:13:23 PM
we are sooo going to need new types of defenses
something like "Nade Combat Dummie" + Personal Shield + moving Blades ;).
on the other hand a nice MG should do the trick.
Will they be moddable and thus the modding community will have nigh-impregnable shielding along with shielding that stops incomign fire but allows outgoing fire and is resistant to melee instead? I now picture my time in KoTOR, opening the menu and activating one of those little magical blue arm bands just before starting a fight to get some ballistic immunity for a short duration. Until it burnt out or was melted by said ballistics anyway.
*sticking with my lmgs and m24s*
Any chance that the use of shields could be optional at game start? I personally do not like melee combat as I'm not keen on ultra micro managing combat situations. Either that or at least limit them to brawler class. I recently had a raiding party of which 75% had these shields. I lost 3 colonist due to friendly fire because they could not move fast enough to escape.
I do not use kill boxes, I like to play an open colony style. I limit myself to 4 turrets and never use thermo power. I also use the zombie mod as I like a challenge, but these shields are ruining the game for my style of play. So please Tynan, make shields an option.
Quote from: steveuk on March 03, 2015, 05:45:38 PMI do not use kill boxes, I like to play an open colony style. I limit myself to 4 turrets and never use thermo power. I also use the zombie mod as I like a challenge, but these shields are ruining the game for my style of play. So please Tynan, make shields an option.
Uh wow.
You already play mods, you can just ask a mod author to do it. Asking developers to change core component of gameplay because it doesn't fit your extremely hamstringed (niche) style of play is super selfish.
Quote from: Teague on March 03, 2015, 08:19:57 PM
Uh wow.
You already play mods, you can just ask a mod author to do it. Asking developers to change core component of gameplay because it doesn't fit your extremely hamstringed (niche) style of play is super selfish.
The request was actually for an
option to be able to turn off personal shields. With single-player simulations and players wanting to explore their niche play styles, I don't think options are ever harmful.
Steveuk, Try going into \Mods\Core\Defs\ThingDefs\Apparel_Shield.xml
And tweaking the marketvalue tag really high, and the commonality to 0?
I'm no modder, but XML is supposed to be brilliantly easy to understand, so that'll probably do it.
Quote from: _alphaBeta_ on March 03, 2015, 09:29:11 PMThe request was actually for an option to be able to turn off personal shields. With single-player simulations and players wanting to explore their niche play styles, I don't think options are ever harmful.
Then rather than offer an idea that is self serving - think of one that is more helpful to the community and accomplishes multiple goals.
There is a thread bumping around about making low tech games possible.
Why not, include an option where players can select what items even exist in there world? Think the item selection screen from super smash brothers.
See how this idea is far less niche (selfish)?
I really like the shields, While i don't really use them unless am having fights inside my base with my one or two melee fighters, it really helps with making the game even, Though i think combat realism's turrets are pretty damn good at taking out anything, Zombies have no chance, And the Orion company of glittertech has only attacked me once, AND i only lost one colonist to it, the other one had heavy brain damage but some quick thinking and buying a AI chip helped fix that up.
Quote from: Coenmcj on March 03, 2015, 10:11:54 PM
Steveuk, Try going into \Mods\Core\Defs\ThingDefs\Apparel_Shield.xml
And tweaking the marketvalue tag really high, and the commonality to 0?
I'm no modder, but XML is supposed to be brilliantly easy to understand, so that'll probably do it.
Thanks for the helpful response Coenmcj. I had already changed the commonality to 0 and await the first raid to see if that works.
Teague: Calling forum members selfish for asking for a game mechanic to be optional will not make you many friends as there are a number of like requests. You are obviously happy with the way the game plays at the moment, good for you. How dare someone try to rock the boat. Is that not in itself, a selfish attitude?
Quote from: Teague on March 03, 2015, 11:02:55 PM
Why not, include an option where players can select what items even exist in there world? Think the item selection screen from super smash brothers.
Because then you have to balance two games: one with personal shields, and another without. In particular you must ensure nothing important relies on personal shields.
I find them useful for misc roles, for example I had a knife/shield colonist accompany my shooters when breaking a siege which had two mortars. The knife guy was waiting around the corner, and sure enough a pistol guy tried to flank my marksmen. He killed him, then he rescued a fallen colonist from under fire. You can also use shielders to repair gun turrets.
For pure melee, they break pretty quickly under concentrated fire. They are not a hard counter to shooters.
Quote from: Ramsis on December 29, 2014, 03:13:33 PM
Quote from: Tynan on December 29, 2014, 03:02:04 PM
Well, the idea is to raise the viability of melee weapons.
The basic way the shields work is that you can't shoot in or out. So you'd use one if you were a melee fighter.
They do take damage and lose energy. If they take enough damage they'll pop and take a while to reset. You can also still be shot by people who are in adjacent cells (melee range).
Eh.... I mean I know why you're adding it but at the same time.... I don't ever use melee for the simple fact that it's pointless nine times out of ten. You don't send a melee fighter against most shooters, if any group is bunched up a melee specialist is going to be obliterated in a moments notice, and should a melee fighter get hit with fire what happens?
Idk just seems a bit odd to add. Now if you make it an item that ANYONE can equip, or make it kind of like a spare life item for people who take violent shots then I might understand a bit.
I tend to use melee for hunting, prevents each other from shooting themselves.