Use the remove floor command (either in floors or orders tab) on the old flagstone and the old soil below it should appear where you can setup a growing zone again.
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#2
Ideas / Individual precepts and truly organic ideology. No, this time its for real guys.
August 13, 2021, 04:25:01 PM
> Pawns should have their own individual precepts/beliefs rather than ideoligions brute forcing their precepts from a top down perspective onto pawns.
This way pawns have much more individual variety in thoughts and present a more nuanced and diverse ideological perspective that is both complex and simple in how it would interact between pawns and ideologies. Ideologies on themselves also would present more varied and complex perspectives simultaneously. You could allow ideoligions to drift into different accepted precepts organically this way when enough pawns change their precept stance so that the ideoligical 'norm' of the colony becomes something different. (natural drift)
(to be clear, many previous traits such as misogynist, misandrist, nudist, cannibal, transhumanist, flesh purist etc would be replaced with their respective precepts instead that can be dynamically changed over time to represent held ideological positions changing. A misogynist can't become a believer in female supremacy for example without first losing their precept of misogyny.)
> Ideologions should be formed around 'norms' instead of fixed static precepts.
As pawns would have their own precepts and thus express a varied range of beliefs and philosophies, ideoligions would have an accepted 'norm' or range of precepts around which pawns can form stable ideological communities while retaining their individuality. These precept norms wouldn't allow one to deviate too much of course from the core beliefs but represent an accepted range of positions while retaining the same ideoligious group identity.
> Pawns have individual opinions on other pawns based on precept positions.
If you allow pawns to have opinions of each other based on their precepts rather than arbitrary ideoligious affiliation, you could have a lot of nuance and different ideologions combining and living peacefully together as long as they aren't too drastically different from each other or whether they are based on how open they are to diverse thought. Friendships would form more around shared affinity and beliefs rather than arbitrary methods as well. Even rivalry in the same ideologion could exist and form based on different stances on where the precept 'norm' of an ideoligion should lie naturally.
As a simple example, the 'Physical Love' precept could have some leeway in how pawns and the game treat it.
An ideology could have its Physical love precept 'norm' set at 'Spouse Only (Mild)' but individual pawns could still consider their personal precept on this matter as 'Free' or 'Spouse Only (Strict)' and be considered 'in-line' with the religion and not suffer any lack of 'conviction' from this position (as they are only 1 rank or position removed from the norm). Each individual pawn would have their own opinion of each other based on their precepts and try to convince the other through conversations and arguments to make them see the world their way. Some pawns might not care if two other pawns are sharing the same bed when unmarried while another pawn of the same religion might despise it. Diversity of thought and beliefs so to speak in the same ideology.
Even in gameplay mechanics this could come in handy or provide interesting roleplay oppertunity. A pawn that believes in Physical Love: Free and a pawn that believes in Physical Love: Spouse Only (Mild) may therefore have a difference of opinion with each other and may or may not end up sleeping together based on this. Two lover pawns who would have Physical Love: Free for example in an ideoligion which has Physical Love restricted to only Marriage (mild) would still be able to have their relationship go to the next level but would suffer stigma and negative opinions from their fellow colonists who have a different and stricter precept to them.
> The more precepts a pawn has that deviate strongly from the 'norm' of an ideoligion the weaker their conviction would be of that ideology. The more in-line a pawn would be with their ideology's 'norm', the easier it would be for them to retain conviction or prosletyze it. Conversely if a pawn had more precepts in line with an ideology that was trying to convert them and they fit in the precept norm of that ideoligion better than their current ideoligion, the easier it would be to convert them to said ideology.
After all it is easier to convert someone whose precepts only deviates a little such as on whether they can sleep together when in love or not rather than someone who believes in the inherent supremacy of a tunneler cannabalistic blinded and masochistic way of life for example.
You only need to change one small thing in someones precepts compared to eating human flesh, living underground, enjoy being blinded and hurting yourself in masochistic rituals.
Conversions would then be harder for extremely deviating ideologies and easier for similar ones. Converting another pawn then would start by bringing their precepts in line around the 'norm' of the target ideology, slowly bit by bit convincing them of a new better way of life. Once their precepts are brought in line enough to fit your ideology they can be officially converted as believers rather than outright trying to convert them whole piece from one way of life to another completely different and opposite way of life.
Thus one ideology is way easier to convert towards than the other. This also stops pawns who have mental breaks from flip flopping between completely different ideologies overnight like a schizophrenic mental patient. They may change a precept or so but they wouldn't suddenly become new personalities overnight with this method.
Ultimately you can have some interesting colonies this way.
> carnivores and vegetarians living together in the same colony in the same religion (because it's not set as a strict requirement in this ideology for example, it's just a personal precept preference. They may still dislike each other though.)
> Some colonists may think slavery is ok, while others think it is disapproved. (think America 1840's abolitionist christians but varied stances on slavery.)
> Executions? Some may not care while others simply want justice if found guilty.
> Some may think free love is fine while others think marriage is holy. (modern day debate over marriage sanctity)
> Some may demand women be fully covered and others may simply demand that they are fully dressed and with hats/headwraps. (the old burka vs hijab question in islam, yet they are all still muslims.)
They could all still be the same ideoligion and all would have different opinions on each other based on each pawns individual beliefs. A complex web of opinions and personal beliefs in a colony would form from this type of ideological implementation.
It's more strange that an ideoligion represents a monolith of fixed precepts rather than a diversity of thought based around a 'norm'. Pawn should have individual beliefs while still remaining part of the same community and providing diverse interactions between different pawns based on their individual positions and precepts in regards to what truly defines their ideoligion and pawnhood.
If you wanted your colony to move more towards an individual pawns precepts, you could just make them the new 'moral guide' as this would give that pawn increased chance at convincing other pawns of the same faith into following their specific precept preferences. This would effectively give you the player some leeway into organizing and leading your colonies reform. Assigning that pawn which has the unique precept Diversity of Thought: Exalted might be just what your colony needs to mesh all the different ideoligions together in your colony without them all going berserk on each other.
What ya all think?
> It provides more believable nuanced ideologions with a diversity of pawn beliefs who would have individual preferences.
> More interactions between pawns based on individual precept preferences forming more complex and interesting relationships.
> Organic 'norm' drift of ideoligious precepts providing natural evolution of ideologions over time.
> Conversions are based on relatedness and affinity to other ideoligions rather than arbitrary conversion mechanics.
> Diversity of colonies without everyone breaking out into full out brawls because they differ on one single precept.
In simpler terms, it's colonists that make up an ideoligion, not the other way around.
This way pawns have much more individual variety in thoughts and present a more nuanced and diverse ideological perspective that is both complex and simple in how it would interact between pawns and ideologies. Ideologies on themselves also would present more varied and complex perspectives simultaneously. You could allow ideoligions to drift into different accepted precepts organically this way when enough pawns change their precept stance so that the ideoligical 'norm' of the colony becomes something different. (natural drift)
(to be clear, many previous traits such as misogynist, misandrist, nudist, cannibal, transhumanist, flesh purist etc would be replaced with their respective precepts instead that can be dynamically changed over time to represent held ideological positions changing. A misogynist can't become a believer in female supremacy for example without first losing their precept of misogyny.)
> Ideologions should be formed around 'norms' instead of fixed static precepts.
As pawns would have their own precepts and thus express a varied range of beliefs and philosophies, ideoligions would have an accepted 'norm' or range of precepts around which pawns can form stable ideological communities while retaining their individuality. These precept norms wouldn't allow one to deviate too much of course from the core beliefs but represent an accepted range of positions while retaining the same ideoligious group identity.
> Pawns have individual opinions on other pawns based on precept positions.
If you allow pawns to have opinions of each other based on their precepts rather than arbitrary ideoligious affiliation, you could have a lot of nuance and different ideologions combining and living peacefully together as long as they aren't too drastically different from each other or whether they are based on how open they are to diverse thought. Friendships would form more around shared affinity and beliefs rather than arbitrary methods as well. Even rivalry in the same ideologion could exist and form based on different stances on where the precept 'norm' of an ideoligion should lie naturally.
As a simple example, the 'Physical Love' precept could have some leeway in how pawns and the game treat it.
An ideology could have its Physical love precept 'norm' set at 'Spouse Only (Mild)' but individual pawns could still consider their personal precept on this matter as 'Free' or 'Spouse Only (Strict)' and be considered 'in-line' with the religion and not suffer any lack of 'conviction' from this position (as they are only 1 rank or position removed from the norm). Each individual pawn would have their own opinion of each other based on their precepts and try to convince the other through conversations and arguments to make them see the world their way. Some pawns might not care if two other pawns are sharing the same bed when unmarried while another pawn of the same religion might despise it. Diversity of thought and beliefs so to speak in the same ideology.
Even in gameplay mechanics this could come in handy or provide interesting roleplay oppertunity. A pawn that believes in Physical Love: Free and a pawn that believes in Physical Love: Spouse Only (Mild) may therefore have a difference of opinion with each other and may or may not end up sleeping together based on this. Two lover pawns who would have Physical Love: Free for example in an ideoligion which has Physical Love restricted to only Marriage (mild) would still be able to have their relationship go to the next level but would suffer stigma and negative opinions from their fellow colonists who have a different and stricter precept to them.
> The more precepts a pawn has that deviate strongly from the 'norm' of an ideoligion the weaker their conviction would be of that ideology. The more in-line a pawn would be with their ideology's 'norm', the easier it would be for them to retain conviction or prosletyze it. Conversely if a pawn had more precepts in line with an ideology that was trying to convert them and they fit in the precept norm of that ideoligion better than their current ideoligion, the easier it would be to convert them to said ideology.
After all it is easier to convert someone whose precepts only deviates a little such as on whether they can sleep together when in love or not rather than someone who believes in the inherent supremacy of a tunneler cannabalistic blinded and masochistic way of life for example.
You only need to change one small thing in someones precepts compared to eating human flesh, living underground, enjoy being blinded and hurting yourself in masochistic rituals.
Conversions would then be harder for extremely deviating ideologies and easier for similar ones. Converting another pawn then would start by bringing their precepts in line around the 'norm' of the target ideology, slowly bit by bit convincing them of a new better way of life. Once their precepts are brought in line enough to fit your ideology they can be officially converted as believers rather than outright trying to convert them whole piece from one way of life to another completely different and opposite way of life.
Thus one ideology is way easier to convert towards than the other. This also stops pawns who have mental breaks from flip flopping between completely different ideologies overnight like a schizophrenic mental patient. They may change a precept or so but they wouldn't suddenly become new personalities overnight with this method.
Ultimately you can have some interesting colonies this way.
> carnivores and vegetarians living together in the same colony in the same religion (because it's not set as a strict requirement in this ideology for example, it's just a personal precept preference. They may still dislike each other though.)
> Some colonists may think slavery is ok, while others think it is disapproved. (think America 1840's abolitionist christians but varied stances on slavery.)
> Executions? Some may not care while others simply want justice if found guilty.
> Some may think free love is fine while others think marriage is holy. (modern day debate over marriage sanctity)
> Some may demand women be fully covered and others may simply demand that they are fully dressed and with hats/headwraps. (the old burka vs hijab question in islam, yet they are all still muslims.)
They could all still be the same ideoligion and all would have different opinions on each other based on each pawns individual beliefs. A complex web of opinions and personal beliefs in a colony would form from this type of ideological implementation.
It's more strange that an ideoligion represents a monolith of fixed precepts rather than a diversity of thought based around a 'norm'. Pawn should have individual beliefs while still remaining part of the same community and providing diverse interactions between different pawns based on their individual positions and precepts in regards to what truly defines their ideoligion and pawnhood.
If you wanted your colony to move more towards an individual pawns precepts, you could just make them the new 'moral guide' as this would give that pawn increased chance at convincing other pawns of the same faith into following their specific precept preferences. This would effectively give you the player some leeway into organizing and leading your colonies reform. Assigning that pawn which has the unique precept Diversity of Thought: Exalted might be just what your colony needs to mesh all the different ideoligions together in your colony without them all going berserk on each other.
What ya all think?
> It provides more believable nuanced ideologions with a diversity of pawn beliefs who would have individual preferences.
> More interactions between pawns based on individual precept preferences forming more complex and interesting relationships.
> Organic 'norm' drift of ideoligious precepts providing natural evolution of ideologions over time.
> Conversions are based on relatedness and affinity to other ideoligions rather than arbitrary conversion mechanics.
> Diversity of colonies without everyone breaking out into full out brawls because they differ on one single precept.
In simpler terms, it's colonists that make up an ideoligion, not the other way around.
#3
Bugs / Re: [1.3.3076] Incorrect infotab information for animals
July 31, 2021, 11:13:58 PMQuote from: Thunder1 on July 31, 2021, 09:56:55 PM
I noticed this myself while comparing animals via their info panel. There's also an inconsistency between hunger rate, as shown in the animal's info panel, and nutrition consumption, as shown by pen markers, where consumption rate is half of the displayed hunger rate. Perhaps there is a hidden, hard-coded multiplier being applied to tamed animals that isn't shown in the info panel.
From the 1.3 preview patch notes:
Herbivores rebalance:
--->Hunger rate reduced by 50%.<---
Adult age is reduced by 33%.
Gestation days reduced by 33%. (This does not include unfertilized egg layers.).
These stats have probably become hidden stats when there really is no need to do this. Adult age can literally be edited in the XML for the appropriate animal as well as gestation period and hunger rate but for some reason they patch changes are hidden inside the code itself now. This is such a strange method. Why not just update the XML to represent the intended changes instead?
#4
Bugs / [1.3.3076] Incorrect infotab information for animals
July 31, 2021, 06:54:14 PM
Since the 1.3 patch (herbivore) animals mature 33% faster.
From the patch 1.3 preview notes:
> Herbivores rebalance:
> Adult age is reduced by 33%.
However this change is not properly represented in the animals infotab.
Chickens are listed to mature at 0.2 years (12 days) but actually mature at ~7.92 days (12 days x ~0.66).
Goats are listed to mature at 0.266 years (~16 days) but actually mature at ~10.5 days (~16 days x ~0.66).
This also means that the meat per day during growth is nearly always off by 33% of the listed amount as well.
I don't know if this is intended or not but now as such there is a hidden stat where (herbivore?) animals mature 33% faster than listed. This is confusing to players and an annoyance at best with the infotab not being correct anymore.
Chickens went from 0.3 years fully grown (18 days) in v1.2 to listed as 0.2 years (12 days) in v1.3 but are in fact already mature at just ~8 days. So that's 1/3rd off the time it took to mature chickens and then another 33% off of that. I think this is a bit excessive in their growth rates.
I also for the life of me can't find where this 33% growth bonus comes from in the files as a modder.
Thank you for reading and listening to my concerns.
Lovely game btw
From the patch 1.3 preview notes:
> Herbivores rebalance:
> Adult age is reduced by 33%.
However this change is not properly represented in the animals infotab.
Chickens are listed to mature at 0.2 years (12 days) but actually mature at ~7.92 days (12 days x ~0.66).
Goats are listed to mature at 0.266 years (~16 days) but actually mature at ~10.5 days (~16 days x ~0.66).
This also means that the meat per day during growth is nearly always off by 33% of the listed amount as well.
I don't know if this is intended or not but now as such there is a hidden stat where (herbivore?) animals mature 33% faster than listed. This is confusing to players and an annoyance at best with the infotab not being correct anymore.
Chickens went from 0.3 years fully grown (18 days) in v1.2 to listed as 0.2 years (12 days) in v1.3 but are in fact already mature at just ~8 days. So that's 1/3rd off the time it took to mature chickens and then another 33% off of that. I think this is a bit excessive in their growth rates.
I also for the life of me can't find where this 33% growth bonus comes from in the files as a modder.
Thank you for reading and listening to my concerns.
Lovely game btw
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