Messages

Just curious, did your Thrumbo have access to wood or trees? They're dendrovorous, which apparently means they eat trees. Though they also seem to try to eat other things too.

Well you're in luck with the colonist relationship wish, it's set to come next patch!

Social relationships with friends, rivals, family, chats, arguments, and fights

https://ludeon.com/blog/2015/11/ongoing-progress/

The day length's actually been extended twice now I believe. It used to be 20k ticks, then 24k, and now 30k.

Unfortunately I don't see a way to implement this that isn't performance intensive, but maybe you could come up with one if you understand the base systems being used. I really don't know much about the way the game uses regions to figure out jobs.

Keep in mind it's also important for a player to optimize the base to reduce transit time. Similar to how businesses consolidate activities and good types in stores or warehouses.

I mean, RimWorld is a functional bug-free game currently with a ton of features. Which is more than can be said for Towns, DF-9, etc...

Tynan's got the long con going

[The Luddites]

Every locale had its own set of local heroes. Some of these heroes are well known to us through epic and tragedy, while others are never mentioned in any poetry known to us. The local hero of hero cult could be male or female, adult or child.

_{-"Relevant facts about ancient Greek hero cults," by Gregory Nagy}

The Luddites
Throughout history, RimWorld inhabitants have found themselves drawn to the ancient ruins around the world. In many of these places, luddite cults have emerged. Luddite cults worship the final resting places of what were obviously mighty and powerful humans who did great things. Luddites believe the deceased heroes of legend still have supernatural powers.

A step up from pure ancestor worship, luddite beliefs are fueled by the many mysterious ancient ruins commonly found on rim worlds. With the original purpose of the old structures forgotten, luddites shoehorn their oral traditions into local geography. An abundance of poorly-understood technology and human remains tends to reinforce luddite beliefs in ancient heroes formally buried in twisted structures of plasteel.

Fig1. Gigantic, largely intact, and conspicuous. Luddite cults tend to form around such structures in devotion to the mighty hero entombed inside.

Cult Behaviors
Why luddites shun technology in combination with their beliefs is less obvious. Ordo evidence points towards mechanoid incursions playing a key role in luddite rituals, and mechanoids seem to avoid certain ancient sites for reasons that are unclear. In part because of this, luddite cults tend to be heavily territorial, centered around the relative supernatural safety provided by their hero's tomb.

Recent scan compilations indicate most prominent luddite tomb sites harbor semi-active ship cores, EMP devices, or hardened military subroutines. Luddites seem largely unaware of these technological entities, which may be the source of what luddites perceive to be supernatural benefits.

Luddites don't eschew all technology, just most of it. A strong belief in the supernatural provides great purpose to the technology adopted by luddites. What we might identify as old school energy weapons or nutrient paste synthesizers are often, to luddites, magical artifacts provided by their worshipped heroes. Technology isn't bad to luddite cults simply because it's technology, but because it's bad magic. Context is everything to luddites.

Hero cult was a fundamentally local practice, confined to a specific locale. There were literally thousands of hero-cults throughout the locales of the ancient Greek-speaking world.

_{-"Relevant facts about ancient Greek hero cults," by Gregory Nagy}

Luddites and You
Luddites are territorial, hesitant to leave both the protection of their deceased benefactors and to leave their precious tombs undefended. While this might seem to make avoiding luddite cults a straightforward affair, the vast number of ruins on certain RimWorlds can cultivate thousands of competing luddite cults and spinoffs.

The best way for pre-established colonies and outposts to avoid luddites is stay away from ancient structures. Activity near ancient sites may lead luddite cults to assume those sites are worshipped by the colony. Luddite cults have no qualms about engaging in hostilities with factions they feel pose a threat to their own hero, especially if the oracles of their hero find this is needed. Luddites certainly believe in the existence of other heroes, they just know theirs is the most worthy of veneration.

Luddite attacks may involve a wide range of tactical and strategic threats. While primitive ranged and melee weaponry is common, luddites may also bring "magical" EMP-based weaponry. It's possible these are fielded as an escalated response to feral mechanoids or other technological threats where conventional primitive weaponry is ineffective. In full conflict, luddites will attempt to disable mechanical defenses before engaging in primitive close combat.

Fig2. Spess ruins! Spess ruins everywhere.

Greek hero cults sprang up around unknown structures, and the ruin-laden rim worlds seem like a great analogue to that. I like the idea of luddites as a tenuous mix of magic and technology. Just like hero cults may have actually worshipped prehistoric bones thinking they were larger-than-life remains, luddite cults may actually be under the protection of ancient barely-functioning systems designed to subtly protect human life. While I've often thought how cargo cults might emerge on RimWorld, hero cults seem a bit more natural.

Best of all is luddites are the natural enemy to mechanoids, which lack real opposition and walk over every faction out there (yes, technically megascarabs are the bane of mechanoids in lore). A faction that disables mechanoids using "magic artifacts" --EMPs-- then tears them apart with ad-hoc primitive weaponry seems like the perfect counter. A nice step above being totally primitive and seeing complete robo-massacres.

Visually luddites are absurd. TogasSimple clothing and ritual space helmets on a few leaders, both marked with the markings of their sacred tombs. Thematically elements should mash together. Picture priests offering blood sacrifices and libations on an altar, which is actually a nutrient paste machine from the backroom of a local school cafeteria.

Banned? No worries, this topic comes up pretty often. No one knows when the Steam version will be out. Presumably after a few months.

Functionally there's not much of a difference difference between Steam versus non-Steam, aside from DRM (why I prefer GOG) and the method of update.
-Usage of the Steam Workshop is unlikely.
-Achievements are unlikely.

Currently RimWorld distribution is done via SendOwl, where you get a link to downloads that automatically updates to the latest version with every patch.

Tieing in a holiday to wildlife sounds interesting. How do you think it relates to RimWorld lore? Is it something the colonist randomly start doing? That definitely gives a nice reason to 'splode some boomrats.

[Holidays in comparable games]

Holidays, festivals, celebrations... Groups come together seasonally to remember historical events, pay respects, practice traditions and rituals, or just have a good time with lots of food and alcohol. How do they look in RimWorld? Here's how holidays feature in similar games, and some thoughts on what holidays in RimWorld might look like.

Holidays in comparable games

Stonehearth added festivals as part of a stretch goal. Festivals will probably create worker bonuses as long as enough celebratory food is available. From the stretch goal description: Join your townsfolk as they celebrate popular holidays like Solstice, Harvest, and The Monday of The Twelve Golden Fruit. Properly provisioned festivals produce happy, energetic workers. Forgotten events invite the wrath of greater powers...

Dwarf Fortress has festivals as well, though they currently only happen in the world generation and adventure mode. While players may celebrate certain times of the game themselves, Gobin Christmas isn't technically a festival. A note on how festivals will work from dev notes:

We're well into the world gen festivals. Their main purpose at this point is to provide something interesting and interconnecting for the new artists to do before we move on to dwarf mode. The festivals that rise to the level of importance required for legends mode tracking are established as part of a fair in large markets with multiple trade partners, for religious purposes in temple cities, or to commemorate specific events such as the slaying of a dragon. The game looks at the values and ethics of the civilization and the overall purpose of the occasion to come up with the schedule of events -- performances, competitions (from art to various races to wrestling to etc. etc.), processions and ceremonies, with various little details. We're still on track to finish this part in a day or two.

Sim City 3000 Unlimited has several mostly appearance-based holidays and seasonal items, with Christmas lights, Gingerbread houses, and Christmas tree lights in December and occasional Thanksgiving parades in the fall -- provided the city was big enough. Not technically a Dwarf Fortress-esque game, but the pool of examples is kind of limited.

Where are the holidays?

I was surprised holidays or their equivalents weren't more commonly found in similar games. Holidays strike me as a great way to enforce pacing and make both in-game and lore events memorable by reminding players about them. Holidays also keep a game topical. A great example of this is League's Harrowing or Warcraft's Feast of Winter Veil, though arguably player engagement is the greatest priority for these types of games that live and die by their player base and subscription size. This doesn't discount the importance of holidays for single-purchase games like RimWorld, though, and the fact the biggest game franchises use holiday events heavily suggests just how important they are.

^{Vincent van Gogh - Celebration of July 14 in Paris (1886)}

What's a good holiday?

The worst holidays are copied directly from reality. In a game with open-ended lore and lots of creative possibilities, probably the worst narrative choice is to give the player something 100% familiar. Worse than being boring, events ripped from reality highlight in-game shortcomings and highlight all the ways the copied event is hollow and incongruous with reality.

That doesn't mean reality isn't a good source of inspiration. Being able to intuitively figure out the basis for a holiday without having to read a wall of background text is good. Plus the foundational reasons for some holidays can make a lot of sense, like harvest or solstice celebrations. The trick is grounding all these things in the RimWorld universe.

The good holiday checklist:
[ ]Unique - not simply a copy of Christmas cuz that's boring
[ ]Relatable or Intuitive - does the celebration purpose make sense
[ ]Reinforces in-game events or lore - does the rest of the living, breathing world celebrate this?
[ ]Sentence Simple - I can describe it in a simple sentence

Instead of some examples of good events, here are some not-so-good ones:
-Derivativemas: celebrates the discovery of derivatives. Unique, but not relatable or intuitive or tied to the lore.
-Ka'Val Dun's Swift Victory Over Sisters in the Agnatic Conflict Over Inheritance in Western Tribe Lands: Ka'Val Dun's advisor swiftly decapitated the king's arch enemy on the field of battle by using a powerful weapon that was made by a forge on this RimWorld by some craftspeople who liked ale because their genetic history predisposed them towards it. Deep lore maybe, but overly complicated and unclear.
-Birthday of X: Not really unique, and a little bland because literally everyone has a birthday. Is X even notable?
-Thanksgiving: At least call it Space-giving or something, remind the player he's not on Earth.

Anyways, I've devolved pretty heavily into word vomit by this point. What are your sexiest RimWorld Holiday suggestions?

At the great peril of not answering the OP question adequately, here are some of the responses given by Tynan when asked about overhead mountain. I'd consider these three reasons intuitive rationalizations, similar to why bullets cause damage -- because they just do. But there's a specific game design reason why certain environmental elements can't be changed too, in case that isn't a strong enough reason.

No, they're [thick rock roofs] permanent. Imagine hundreds of feet of mountain rock above the colonists.

You'll never be able to remove thick cave roofs; it represents a mountain over your head and you can't carry that away.

You should imagine the overhead mountains as a mountain over the colonists' head. You can't mine that out; it will always collapse.

What's the motivation for this design? Tynan's big on forcing the player to make responsive decisions, as seen in his removing the fertilizer pump awhile ago: Cut fertilizer pump (to provide a more meaningful long-term choice between soil farming and hydroponics). The fertilizer pump -- RIP in peace -- would change any terrain into soil. Marsh? Soil. Solid rock? Soil. The idea is when the player can't terraform the environment at will, the player has to make meaningful decisions in response to the terrain. Overhead mountain is analogous to marsh; it's an environmental factor that doesn't change, so players have to decide how they'll incorporate it into the colony.

edit: here is Tynan's specific response to why certain environmental elements can't be changed:

Wash rinse repeat is very boring, and the biomes should be more than just new skins.

This is really the heart of it.

If a desert base looks just like a jungle base (but with slightly different heating facilities), something is wrong. In my book, anything that encourages more dramatic differences between biomes is good. Being able to build the same optimized, self-contained, killbox'd fortress in every biome and play out the exact same production lines is, to me, a total failure of game design. When each biome feels really different, that's where we win. I made this change because I think it moves further in that direction.

The realism argument doesn't move me. Real trees take decades to grow. If we made them grow realistically, there would be no point in planting them in RW since they'd be nothing more than saplings by the end of even the longest-lived colony. Have you ever heard of a town in the old west in 1875 planting a bunch of trees for lumber? It just doesn't happen because it doesn't make sense in real life. Reforestation is purely a modern phenomenon and only makes sense in the context of huge mechanized logging operations. The only old counterexamples are things like olive, fig, or cork trees, and only because these trees produce for decades after maturity and don't need to be chopped down.

You still have the choice between a tree-filled and a tree-scarce environment. If the idea of tree-scarcity seems horrible to you, just play boreal forest, temperate forest, or jungle. If you want a bit more of a desperate experience, play tundra or desert. You still have access to the same experiences as before, but with new more desperate ones emphasized.

I know that as players you *want* on some level to be able to optimize your colony perfectly into the same perfect base each time. After all, that's your goal at every moment while playing the game, and you feel a sort of dopamine rush pleasure when making progress towards that. It's natural to recoil from design changes that seem to take away what you *want*. But please recognize that a game that hands you your goal easily is not a better game. Games aren't fun because they give you what you want. They're fun because of the dramatic process of struggle, decision, story, and drama that you experience in pursuit of your goal. Just as in life, it's about the journey, not the destination. And when you finally do achieve that perfect base in a desolate tundra, even with the harder game mechanics and greater challenges, the emotional reward will be all the greater because you'll know you bloody earned it.

Never ceases to amaze how inflammatory and arrogant random new people are in this and the Suggestions area, for no real reason.

I think it's important to not get too distracted by specifics and reality. We know from lore and from character histories that all sorts of levels of sociotechnological development exist. There's also no one RimWorld, so lots of variants exist; this is canon as well. Here's what the lore says about medieval worlds:

Medieval worlds - Similar to Earth in the 17th century down to the agricultural revolution. Dominated be [sic] feudalism and social backwardness. Planets can stay in this state for millennia.

Really what's more important is how the faction slots into gameplay. The most realistic and logical faction might not be good to put in the game simply because it's not Fun.

Here are three questions I ask when I think about factions:
1. What is the simplest way to make the faction unique to the player?
2. How are raids different? How do player tactics change?
3. What is the minimum amount of new content and work needed? Adding in 20 new medieval siege engines, weapons, and armor sets might be cool until the next alpha is delayed a month because of the additional coding and bug squashing needed.

I'd also consider areas of the game that haven't been explored much yet. No factions currently use attack animals, for example.

Honestly I'd recommend just turning on dev mode and playing around for a few minutes. A lot of stuff we'd find intuitive isn't necessarily in play. I don't think wall material, for example, has any effect -- but it's easy to test.

Just thinking in broad strokes, what would make medievals distinct from tribals? Especially in combat, both factions seem to be based around whacking colonist limbs off or turning them into arrow'd pincushions.

We can assume they live in majestic castles, use some sort of feudal system, and have swangin feasts, but that's all stuff the player wouldn't really see in gameplay.

Cool concept! It raises some interesting questions about how the different pods that fall from space might be weaponized. Drop pods seem pretty common in RimWorld, what happens when they're weaponized instead of being used solely for escape or trade? Honestly I'd settle for squashing raiders with plain ol' drop pods.

Why settle for smooth stone? Get that additional beauty and go for gold tile!

When you bought the game, you got an email with the link to download it at. Look through your old emails, follow that link, and it will have the latest version of RimWorld there.