Bows: The Antichrist?

[Cimanyd]

Lets not even mention that limbs have literally the same health value as internal organs like heart and liver.

Arms and legs have 30 health, and the harvestable organs (heart, lungs, kidneys, liver) have 20.

[Mikhail Reign]

Maybe the game could incorporate a 'firing from cover' idea with round fired from a emplaced position (from behind a sandbag) have a higher to hit chance, have lesser wounds be more incapacitating and an increase/additions to the wound management process. This would mean that your colonists would be more likely to hit the enemy when they are in position, everyone would be more likely to go down when shot, and being shot, even slightly would be more of a worry.

[NoImageAvailable]

Lets not even mention that limbs have literally the same health value as internal organs like heart and liver.

Arms and legs have 30 health, and the harvestable organs (heart, lungs, kidneys, liver) have 20.

Must've been changed then, still ridiculous though.

[Boboid]

Bows are pretty silly at the moment. If firearms actually had magazines/ammo and pawns could perform follow-up shots and stuff, then at least they'd have an advantage over great bows.

To be perfectly clear every single firearm has higher dps even at "long" range except for the Pistol, Heavy SMG, and PDW.

At their appropriate ranges they all blow the Great bow out of the water. All this information is available to you, it's mostly just a perception problem.

[Cazakatari]

Lets not even mention that limbs have literally the same health value as internal organs like heart and liver. Take a high-power round to the liver? Sure, that thing is for all intents destroyed. But a 7.62x51mm completely severing a leg in one hit? Not unless you're the Gingerbread man.

I would suggest raising the hp values of limbs, but that would make incapacitating even more difficult, not sure I'd like that. 

As for the topic on hand, great bows seem much more devastating than they actually are because there's 2x-20x as many of them shooting at you, and of conventional weapons they out-range everything but the rifle and the sniper. This is why killboxes or at least line of sight traps are basically required against tribals mid-late game, it's the combination of range and number of shots

In my first game before I'd even heard of a killbox, the first large wave (I think 10-20) of tribals destroyed all my turrets from afar and had me panicking.  Thankfully after killing the melee and a few others they ran.  After that I built walls to break line of sight so they'd have to get within turret range.  Combat was a boring affair after that

[Darkhymn]

Just abandoned another colony this morning because one single jerk with a pila one-shot removed limbs from two of my colonists in the same firefight about 20 minutes in, and I lost my will to play the game. There's no excuse for tribal weapons to be this overpowered. I think I'm going to teach myself to mod just so I can figure out what the hell is wrong with tribal weapons and fix them.

[Benny the Icepick]

Maybe the raiders use these arrows?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wXxPZUDqAQ

I was really hoping you were referencing the UHF parody: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SW7-8C8kL4
but the original will do.

[Arsonik]

I find that PILA is the most devastating as far as limb removal. This is only from experience, not actually pulling any data to back that up.

In fact, I might be able to shed light on a potential bug in lines with this discussion. When I have really really troublesome prisoners who constantly mental break, and the game refuses to throw me a bone (slave trader), I have a very practical way of dealing with the situation. Equip someone with a Pila. Now go force attack the perpetrator. Chances are your taking off a leg withing 2 or 3 tries. But I'd say 80% of the time you take off a limb at point blank range. You're going for legs because a prisoner with no legs can't get out of bed. You know what that means right? No more mental breaks. Forever. For anything. You can see that once a pawn is bedridden from a missing leg, they have no mood modifiers anymore. You can put them in a 1x2 room without lights and blood all over the ceiling floors and walls. Honey pawn don't give a f*ck!

[SpaceDrunk]

Ever been shot by a longbow?

Well neither have I but I'm guessing it's not very fun!

I imagine it would be - but I dont think it would be blowing limbs off - even the .50's legendary power is simply that a myth - unless you are shooting people with either many, many, manybullets, explosive rounds, or 20mm type rounds, you aren't blowing a limb off.

That's not completely true. It's a little morbid, but there's a lot of video evidence and soldiers' accounts of 50 cal rounds ripping off limbs and shredding bodies apart, especially when chambered in high velocity anti-materiel rifles like the M82. Such weapons are supposed to be employed against lightly armoured vehicles, so using them against human targets is pretty obscene overkill, and it's no surprise they cause horrific injuries. The 'myth' is more that they have this capability even when the bullet misses the target by just a little. That's almost certainly not true.

Personally, I would like to see limbs have a chance to be 'mangled' instead of simply being destroyed when their hit points fall to 0. It would have the same immediate effect as a lost limb, but could be treated and saved. I think limbs should only be destroyed if they take a certain threshold of damage in one go, perhaps their HP + 10 or something like that.

[Darkhymn]

I could see them being literally removed by bladed weapons, but not by pointy sticks or small arms fire. I like the idea of them being mangled or disabled until they get proper treatment or something.

[Mikhail Reign]

Ever been shot by a longbow?

Well neither have I but I'm guessing it's not very fun!

I imagine it would be - but I dont think it would be blowing limbs off - even the .50's legendary power is simply that a myth - unless you are shooting people with either many, many, manybullets, explosive rounds, or 20mm type rounds, you aren't blowing a limb off.

That's not completely true. It's a little morbid, but there's a lot of video evidence and soldiers' accounts of 50 cal rounds ripping off limbs and shredding bodies apart, especially when chambered in high velocity anti-materiel rifles like the M82. Such weapons are supposed to be employed against lightly armoured vehicles, so using them against human targets is pretty obscene overkill, and it's no surprise they cause horrific injuries. The 'myth' is more that they have this capability even when the bullet misses the target by just a little. That's almost certainly not true.

Personally, I would like to see limbs have a chance to be 'mangled' instead of simply being destroyed when their hit points fall to 0. It would have the same immediate effect as a lost limb, but could be treated and saved. I think limbs should only be destroyed if they take a certain threshold of damage in one go, perhaps their HP + 10 or something like that.

They really don't. AM rounds don't tumble. Tumbling is what causes the most damage. Just watch any video that shows a AM round hitting ballistic gel. Sure if it hits a bone, it can cause bone fragments to mangle the limb, but the actual round passes cleanly through the target.

And yeah, the '.50 nearly hits and still does damage' myth is exactly that - a myth. It doesnt cause ANY damage from a near miss.

[NoImageAvailable]

Ever been shot by a longbow?

Well neither have I but I'm guessing it's not very fun!

I imagine it would be - but I dont think it would be blowing limbs off - even the .50's legendary power is simply that a myth - unless you are shooting people with either many, many, manybullets, explosive rounds, or 20mm type rounds, you aren't blowing a limb off.

That's not completely true. It's a little morbid, but there's a lot of video evidence and soldiers' accounts of 50 cal rounds ripping off limbs and shredding bodies apart, especially when chambered in high velocity anti-materiel rifles like the M82. Such weapons are supposed to be employed against lightly armoured vehicles, so using them against human targets is pretty obscene overkill, and it's no surprise they cause horrific injuries. The 'myth' is more that they have this capability even when the bullet misses the target by just a little. That's almost certainly not true.

Personally, I would like to see limbs have a chance to be 'mangled' instead of simply being destroyed when their hit points fall to 0. It would have the same immediate effect as a lost limb, but could be treated and saved. I think limbs should only be destroyed if they take a certain threshold of damage in one go, perhaps their HP + 10 or something like that.

They really don't. AM rounds don't tumble. Tumbling is what causes the most damage. Just watch any video that shows a AM round hitting ballistic gel. Sure if it hits a bone, it can cause bone fragments to mangle the limb, but the actual round passes cleanly through the target.

And yeah, the '.50 nearly hits and still does damage' myth is exactly that - a myth. It doesnt cause ANY damage from a near miss.

The main damage comes from transfer of energy disrupting nearby tissue. Tumbling can aid in that but even without it, the sheer amount of energy in a .50cal means that even with just a fraction of energy transfered it would still do much more damage than low-energy rounds. In terms of numbers a .50 BMG transferring only 2% of its muzzle energy into a target would do as much damage as a pistol round transferring 100%. And all this is before considering body armor penetration which would induce tumbling and therefore increase energy transfer.

[SSS]

While being pierced by an arrow is generally more dangerous than, say, being shot with a pistol or rifle, taking off limbs is just way over the top. I wouldn't mind seeing limbs shredded/mangled/infected by most weapons, placing them in need of amputation, but very few weapons should be able to completely remove them on the spot. Explosives, longswords, and maybe shotguns are the only ones in the game I know of that could do so.

[rexx1888]

it amuses me that tribal weapons rarely cause infection. i know med packs have disinfectant, but theres alot of goop that can get on a bunch of tribal weapons

[Mikhail Reign]

Oh I'm not saying that they don't do tremendous amounts of soft tissue damage, but there is a world of hurt between that and blowing limbs off. AM rounds don't transfer energy to soft tissue very well - they mostly pass straight through - they have an air cushion/shock wave that encompasses which is actually what is causing a lot of the damage on soft targets. The image that I am arguing against here is the Day of the Jackle-esc .50 hits arms and blows it to pieces.

Part of it comes from .50 rounds being made to penetrate - if it's made to punch through armour or steel plate AND hit what's on the other side, what kind of resistance do you think a flesh sack puts up?