Repairing damaged items

[Telarin]

I had mentioned this in another thread at one time, but thought I would break it out in to its own thread and flesh it out a bit. Now that we have wear and tear on items, we end up with tons of nearly useless items lying around. The best we can currently do is pass them along to traders for pennies. My suggestion is adding a mechanism that would allow us to repair these items to be useful again, within certain limits. Different kinds of items are inherently different, though they have some similarities, so I will break them down by type.

Guns:

For guns, I would suggest adding a new skill: Gunsmith. The gunsmith is able to repair and maintain weapons, either using one of the existing workbenches, or perhaps using a newly added gunsmith bench. The gunsmith must first make gun parts in order to repair guns. One unit of steel should make 5-10 of these parts, either a static number, or base the number created on the skill of the gunsmith. Weapons with only minimal damage (greater than 95% health) would be weapons that are just in need of maintenance, not actual repair. Repairing these would require no parts, and would be almost a guaranteed success, even for a very low skill gunsmith. After all, it does not take much skill to field strip and clean a weapon. Items below 95% health are considered to be damaged. These will require some amount of gun parts to repair. I suggest 1 part for each 5% of fraction thereof below 95% health. Additionally, the more damage the weapon has, the more difficult it will be to repair.

I'm not sure if the current crafting system allows for different levels of success, but if it does, I envision repairing rolls working something like this:
Complete Success: Weapon is repaired to full health.
Partial Success: Weapon is repaired part way to full health, but still uses just as many gun parts as if it were fully repaired.
Normal Failure: Weapon is not repaired at all, gun parts are still consumed.
Bad Failure: Weapon is not repaired at all, and weapon quality drops one level (i.e. A good weapon becomes normal).

Optionally, a weapon's quality can be upgraded. Upgrading a weapon is far more difficult than repairing, as it requires carefully matching and swapping out parts to produce a better operating weapon. Skill requirements would be fairly high for this to begin with, and the chances of success lower. In fact, the higher the starting quality of the weapon, the more difficult it will be to upgrade. It would be much easier to upgrade from awful to shoddy than from normal to good for instance. Again, using a staged success/failure system:
Complete Success: Weapon is upgraded one quality level, gun parts are consumed (amount based on type of weapon and skill of gunsmith)
Normal Failure: Weapon is not upgraded, some % of gun parts is still consumed
Bad Failure: Weapon is not upgraded and takes some amount of damage from the process. In the most severe cases, the weapon can be destroyed completely.

Clothing:
Unlike guns, clothing can not so easily be patched up forever, eventually you are going to simply run out of original material to patch up, so that system would be a bit simpler. It would take place at a tailor's bench, using the regular crafting skill (though honestly, I would love to see crafting broken down into a few more specific skills). Clothing would only allow for repairing items, not upgrading, and each time clothing was repaired, there would be some non-zero chance, based on how badly damaged the clothing was, and the skill of the tailor, that the item would be degraded one quality level. In order to repair clothing, some amount of the original clothing material would be necessary, however, this should always be substantially less than the original amount needed to craft it.

Armor:
Simple armor items like helmets could be repaired at a blacksmiths bench using a bit of steel, plasteel, or other material appropriate to the type of armor. It would operate similar to clothing, having some chance to decrease in quality level each time it was repaired, with the chance being lower for less damaged items and a higher skilled crafter.

More complex items, like power armor would follow a process similar to guns, requiring that appropriate parts be manufactured first, and then used to repair the item. I imagine power armor to be a fairly complex piece of equipment, so a minimum skill and high difficulty seem like they would be appropriate here. Also, because power armor seems like it could be tweeked and fine tuned, allowing for quality levels to be upgraded, similar to the process outlined above for guns seems appropriate.

[Kegereneku]

Yeah, we should really be able to repair those.
And considering we have the ability to make high tech equipment, it shouldn't be that hard to be able to actually make the gun ourselves.
Weapons like the AK-47 are popular precisely because they can be built with little equipment.
Even power armor should be repairable.
Energy shield... maybe not.

[SSS]

I don't see any reason to not just have guns be repaired at the smithing table. Just treat it the same way as clothing: Allow repairs, and have an (increasingly small) chance of degrading the weapon's quality one level depending on the colonist's crafting skill. I think allowing an increase in quality would be a bit much, but allowing repairs shouldn't be a problem once raider drops are balanced down.

As for armor, I see no need to separate it from normal clothing in terms of repairs. Once raiders stop leaving so much equipment around and/or trading becomes a bit less insanely profitable, getting the power armor in the first place will be a big deal, so repairing it doesn't need to be super difficult to compensate, and it keeps the system more simple in the process.

Still, I'm for this in general. I'd love to see weapons/clothing become repairable.

Yeah, we should really be able to repair those.
And considering we have the ability to make high tech equipment, it shouldn't be that hard to be able to actually make the gun ourselves.
Weapons like the AK-47 are popular precisely because they can be built with little equipment.
Even power armor should be repairable.
Energy shield... maybe not.

I think game balance would become the main issue if you take it this far.

Also, lol'd at the energy shield part.

[5pjrh4r3]

For guns, I would suggest adding a new skill: Gunsmith. The gunsmith is able to repair and maintain weapons...

+1; also the ability to cannibalize bad guns of the same type for parts to repair/upgrade others

[Cazakatari]

Yeah, we should really be able to repair those.
And considering we have the ability to make high tech equipment, it shouldn't be that hard to be able to actually make the gun ourselves.
Weapons like the AK-47 are popular precisely because they can be built with little equipment.
Even power armor should be repairable.
Energy shield... maybe not.

I think game balance would become the main issue if you take it this far.

Also, lol'd at the energy shield part.

Has Tynan said he won't allow us to craft guns for that reason?  I think it could be balanced if it was gated by research/material/skill requirements.  It's just so dang hard to get a good gun from raiders, and weapons dealers always have shoddy junk in my games :p


I would like repairing as well, though balancing it might be tricky.  I think it should always drop the item a level in quality

[SSS]

Yeah, we should really be able to repair those.
And considering we have the ability to make high tech equipment, it shouldn't be that hard to be able to actually make the gun ourselves.
Weapons like the AK-47 are popular precisely because they can be built with little equipment.
Even power armor should be repairable.
Energy shield... maybe not.

I think game balance would become the main issue if you take it this far.

Also, lol'd at the energy shield part.

Has Tynan said he won't allow us to craft guns for that reason?  I think it could be balanced if it was gated by research/material/skill requirements.  It's just so dang hard to get a good gun from raiders, and weapons dealers always have shoddy junk in my games :p


I would like repairing as well, though balancing it might be tricky.  I think it should always drop the item a level in quality

He hasn't that I'm aware of. He has said that raiders leave too many weapons/clothing/items on the map, that it affects the economy too much. I figured allowing craftable weapons might have a similar effect in addition to allowing the colony to gain military might much more quickly.

Given that efforts are being made to diversify gaming experience and difficulty to include more than raids, military might may not even be as important in the future, although I doubt it'll stop being relevant. (I can't speak for Tynan.) Either way, that translates to an even lower demand for military strength, meaning that giving the ability to craft weapons would have an even bigger effect than it would now, and it would be big now.

That balance is the main concern is an educated guess. I don't know for certain. Given how insane the raids are right now, crafting weapons might seem reasonable, but keep in mind that "challenging" has recently been established as not being the default difficulty. As soon as raids aren't the only gameplay focus, this suggestion becomes more or less overpowered no matter how many restrictions you place on it.

Now, that's not to say overpowered can't be fun. I think that's more for mod territory, though.

[Mathenaut]

Testing with some mods that already implement this should give a clearer idea.

Repairing doesn't really need another skill as the mechanic doesn't have that great an impact. Craft is suitable.

Crafting your own weapons doesn't really throw balance off. Good quality firearms aren't drastically more lucrative than good quality melee weapons. Additionally, with crafting times also on par, you won't have a weapons warehouse any more than you already would from raider loot.

There is also a need for consistency regarding this and the current pricepoint of some trade items.

[BetaSpectre]

IMO repairing should need repair skill and require resources.
Like for each skill level you get 5% repair bonus. If a weapon is a piece of slag you can't fix it...unless you're good enough to make a new one.

[Kegereneku]

I don't see being able to manufacture middle-tech weapon (AK 47) as irreversibly game-breaking.

Firstly, right know the Research/tech-tree is limited so you can't put a big prerequisite to it. But gunpowder could require research, a choice over more utilitarian research.
Next, creating true middle-tech weapon would ask for metal (which can get very scarce) skills (so it is worth it) and time.
More, as your settlement/colony get bigger you will need to feel like you have grown up. That you can trade more, and so you need thing to sell that are available only late in the game
And finally, you will still dream of high-tech weapon that you cannot build.

[Kagemusha12]

Repairing things (especially clothing) definitely sounds like a must to have 

[SSS]

I don't see being able to manufacture middle-tech weapon (AK 47) as irreversibly game-breaking.

Firstly, right know the Research/tech-tree is limited so you can't put a big prerequisite to it. But gunpowder could require research, a choice over more utilitarian research.
Next, creating true middle-tech weapon would ask for metal (which can get very scarce) skills (so it is worth it) and time.
More, as your settlement/colony get bigger you will need to feel like you have grown up. That you can trade more, and so you need thing to sell that are available only late in the game
And finally, you will still dream of high-tech weapon that you cannot build.

Ah, so you're still wanting to limit the more powerful weapons? I was picturing a colony full of Charge Rifles, LMGs, Miniguns, M-24s, and grenades- and, with an appropriate crafter, at high quality levels to boot. If we're limiting it to lower-tier stuff, then it might not be as bad. M16s and AK-47s would probably be the best I'd care to see as possible to make from scratch. Lee-Enfields, shotguns, Uzis, and pistols probably wouldn't be too bad either.

Allowing the better stuff would be akin to crafting military helmets, kevlar helmets, armor vests, and power armor, imo. Some items are so good that they need to be off-limits as for as crafting goes.

[Mathenaut]

The crafting mod I'm trying out works with pistols, rifles, and PDWs.

Not sure if the more exotic weapons should be on the table just yet. I'm ambivalent on it.

[BetaSpectre]

If someone can Manufacture it. So can you. Given the right environment.
AK-47's and normal guns should obviously be craftable by people with the know how. Watch Angel Beats and you've got people manufacturing things up to Artillery Cannons.

[Mathenaut]

I'm under the impression that miniguns and charge rifles would require facilities that are not quite represented with the current array of production.

Well, perhaps the machine table.

[SSS]

If someone can Manufacture it. So can you. Given the right environment.
AK-47's and normal guns should obviously be craftable by people with the know how. Watch Angel Beats and you've got people manufacturing things up to Artillery Cannons.

For the record, that artillery cannon didn't actually... you know... work. ;P