Can someone explain how armor layers work ?

[b0rsuk]

After many games, I bought superior power armor for the first time. I generally fly away before that. It now sits on an outside equipment rack alongside a doomsday rocket launcher, past the defence lines.

And honestly, it doesn't look /that/ great:
45% blunt resistance
39% heat resistance
84% sharp resistance
56*C cold insulation
No insulation from heat! I'm in very warm rainforest, 25*C in winter. It can't be worn with a duster. In fact, the only pieces of apparel that can be worn with it are headgear, pants, and shirts.

If I have a shirt with power armor, do they add up to protect my torso ?

When I say "not that great" for 7000+ money - I mean that I have stuff like this:
Excellent boarskin duster
Armor - Sharp 15%
Armor - Heat 42%
Armor - Blunt 6%
Insulation cold, heat 23*C

You can wear it with an armor vest, and those things are great. A normal armor vest has 60% sharp resistance, 20% blunt resistance. And I still use power armor helmets.

Thrumbofur is the most easily obtainable material for bulletproof apparel apart from devilstrand. I don't use devilstrand on my current map, I don't remember its stats. Superior thrumbofur pants have 11% sharp resistance, good button-down shirt made of thrumbofur has 10% sharp resistance.
Yes, the shirt and the pants can be worn with power armor too.

So how do I calculate the resistance of my torso now ? Just add it ?
Okay, excellent thrumbofur duster 31% (I have it, I even have armchairs )
Normal armor vest 60%
good thrumbo shirt 10%

That would add up to 31 + 60 + 10 = 101% ? Until they damage my outfit, that is.
Power armor would be 84 + 10 = 94.
Both can go a little higher, but not that higher. Also hyperweave is extremely hard to buy, very rarely sold.

So does power armor justify its existence ? More resistant to fire, I guess, individual pieces of apparel don't burn separately. Individual pieces don't deteriorate separately (but I'd put power armor right before combat anyway). Power armor also protects limbs better, without it my example would have 31 + 10 = 41 for arms and 42 for legs. On the other hand, the cheapass outfit protects neck better, the thrumbo duster + power armor helmet = in the range of 90, or more with better helmet.

[zandadoum]

i have now idea on how to respond to your question, but wanted to tell you that your post gave me some ideas about stuff i should be crafting

[b0rsuk]

I have a thrumbofur armchair in my dining room. It's merely a 'good' one, my godlike constructor screwed up. 4 beauty, 0.88 comfort. But daaamn, $7235 market value!

You can get a live thrumbo for as low as $2000 or $3000 if you really want. A demented one with cataracts and scars. If you have no pity, that's a bargain, as you can get something like $1500 for the horn, and 75 * 20ish is 1500 in fur value.

[zandadoum]

I have a thrumbofur armchair in my dining room. It's merely a 'good' one, my godlike constructor screwed up. 4 beauty, 0.88 comfort. But daaamn, $7235 market value!

little bit offtopic: for what i know (and also read today somewhere) the size of raids depends on storyteller, difficulty AND wealth... does the value of furniture count towards that wealth or just the silver you have?

[b0rsuk]

I bet furniture counts towards wealth. If I were desperate to minimize my wealth, there are tricks like stockpiling almost finished grand sculptures. Almost finished plasteel longswords...

[TLHeart]

Everything that is part of your colony counts as wealth. Every building, every piece of furniture, all art, all the stockpiles of raw resources, all the food in the freezer, all the clothing a weapons stored from the raids, even the number of colonists as each colonist has a monetary value.

Ever wonder why the raids increase in size right after you destroy the evil ship and collect the AI core? that core is worth 7000 silver.

[Rahjital]

I took a peek at the code, here's what I found out:

Damage reduction from different pieces of apparel does stack, kinda. The calculation is performed separately for each part, so while the effect do stack, there's a difference between having one super-strong armor and more weaker armor pieces.

Armor rating up to 50% reduces damage dealt directly. Anything above 50% reduction instead provides chance to resist the hit completely. Above 100% armor rating, both damage reduction and chance to resist the hit increase, but only at quarter the normal rate. Both damage reduction and chance to resist are capped at 90%. All damage blocked is applied to the armour.

To give an example: B0rsuk's superior power armour has 84% sharp armor rating. A pawn wearing this armour gets shot in the torso. The armour reduces damage by 50% and also gives 34% chance for no damage.

If he were to instead give the pawn a superior hyperweave shirt (31.2% sharp armor) and a superior hyperweave duster (52% sharp armour), the pawn only takes 50% * 68.8% = 34.4% damage from the shot, but also has only 2% chance to avoid the hit entirely. If you add a normal armour vest in, the shot would deal 50% * 50% * 68.8% = 17.2% damage with additional 12% chance to resist entirely.

[b0rsuk]

That's even stranger than I thought. I'm glad I asked this question.
Honestly, I'd take the certain reduction to 34.4% or 17.2% instead of relying on a dice roll on a colonist I heavily invested into. There's enough randomness with the hitting mechanic. The armor would degrade on colonist death anyway. 50% damage reduction AND a 34% chance for no damage are a bit redundant.

[Rahjital]

Yeah, reliable damage reduction is better than unreliable ability not to be harmed at all, especially since the armor is going to take a lot of damage in the first shot and thus protect less against anything that follows. I honestly gave up on any armor save personal shields because it degrades when worn anyway, so you have to choose between micromanaging your pawns a lot or letting your armor slowly became useless.

[zandadoum]

To give an example: B0rsuk's superior power armour has 84% sharp armor rating. A pawn wearing this armour gets shot in the torso. The armour reduces damage by 50% and also gives 34% chance for no damage.

ok, easy to understand

If he were to instead give the pawn a superior hyperweave shirt (31.2% sharp armor) and a superior hyperweave duster (52% sharp armour), the pawn only takes 50% * 68.8% = 34.4% damage from the shot, but also has only 2% chance to avoid the hit entirely. If you add a normal armour vest in, the shot would deal 50% * 50% * 68.8% = 17.2% damage with additional 12% chance to resist entirely.

you lost me here, where do this numbers come from? the shirt & duster example, where does the 68,8% come from?
can you break down those numbers for a theorycraft noob like me?

[b0rsuk]

From another thread, where it fits less:

however as AI is improving with every patch, i want to get into it and understand it better (i am not much of a theory crafter myself, i test thing with practice) and currently i am running a colony with just a few hand selected colonists, and i want every one of them to be as strong as possible. alltho i have plenty of animals to stay with my "don't even get hit" playstyle.

I still believe "don't get hit" is a good strategy. It's not just health and armor damage. I don't think armor protects from flinching on hit. That's why squirrels stunlock people in power armour. Until proven otherwise, I'm going to assume not even Painstopper helps here. It doesn't stop burning pawns from panicking.

This matters because Rimworld always relies on outnumbering your colonists, mechanoids are an exception only in early game. No dragons, hydras, bronze colossi like in Dwarf Fortress. So the stunlocking mechanic will almost always work against you.

This armor system reminds me of the one used in Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup, only it's in reverse. In DCSS, light armor with AC rating of 10 will reduce damage by d10 on hit (random number from 1 to 10). It's quite volatile and luck based. However, heavy armor additionally grants some guaranteed damage reduction to the table. So Rimworld system starts with guaranteed reduction and later adds bonus random chance. DCSS starts with random chance and later adds guaranteed reduction. Note I'm not saying Rimworld should follow DCSS and focus on the more frustrating mechanic.

It would be better to display the effect of power armor in a different way, like two separate stats:
* 50% damage reduction
* 34% chance to negate damage (in my case)
The reason it's not done this way - probably because it's not set in stone yet. It's alpha, and the mechanic subject to change.

[juanval]

We all the players like to see clear stats (for example DPS) and see how they improve when we changw the colonist gear. This is one of the most interesting things in an RPG game. "Wow I found a +2 sword and now have 17 of attack instead of 15" 

For armour, there should be an easy parameter for each part of the body and they should be shown in the info panel of the colonist.

There are lots of parameters in this panel but, in my opinion, the 3 combat parameters are few.

[Goo Poni]

So, mathematically, which is superior? Stacking clothes for higher damage resist or "stacking" armour for higher damage ablation? In the cases where a colonist is going to take hits, is it better to take lots of little hits or larger hits that could also not hit at all? I'm leaning towards going with armour over clothes, for the damage ablation. Suit everyone up in some high quality power armour.

[Rahjital]

If he were to instead give the pawn a superior hyperweave shirt (31.2% sharp armor) and a superior hyperweave duster (52% sharp armour), the pawn only takes 50% * 68.8% = 34.4% damage from the shot, but also has only 2% chance to avoid the hit entirely. If you add a normal armour vest in, the shot would deal 50% * 50% * 68.8% = 17.2% damage with additional 12% chance to resist entirely.

you lost me here, where do this numbers come from? the shirt & duster example, where does the 68,8% come from?
can you break down those numbers for a theorycraft noob like me?

Alright, so every piece of apparel reduces damage by up to 50%, and anything over that becomes a chance a chance to negate all damage. The calculation is separate for each piece. So, for a superior hyperweave duster, superior hyperweave shirt and a normal armour vest, the result is like so:

The pawn is hit in the torso. First, the shot passes through the hyperweave duster. It has sharp armour of 52%, so it reduces damage by 50% and gives 2% chance to negate all damage.

Then the armour vest. It has 60% sharp armour, so again it reduces damage by 50% and gives 10% more chance to negate all damage.

And last the hyperweave shirt. It has 31.2% sharp armour, so it reduces the damage done by the bullet by 31.2%. After passing through the shirt, the bullet does 100% - 31.2% = 68.8% damage.

This all stacks, so after passing through all the apparel, the bullet only does 50% * 50% * 68.8% = 17.2% damage. The damage negation chance also stacks, so there is 2% + 10% = 12% chance to resist the shot entirely.

If the shot came from a sniper rifle (base damage 40), it would only do 40 * 17.2% = 7 damage.

So, mathematically, which is superior? Stacking clothes for higher damage resist or "stacking" armour for higher damage ablation? In the cases where a colonist is going to take hits, is it better to take lots of little hits or larger hits that could also not hit at all? I'm leaning towards going with armour over clothes, for the damage ablation. Suit everyone up in some high quality power armour.

Multiple weaker armour pieces absorb more damage on average, and are more reliable due to not relying on random chance. The advantage of power armour is that it protects limbs better, so your pawns are less likely to be incapacitated by a single lucky shot.

However, in the end, what ultimately matters is whether you get hit at all. Rimworld is quite realistic in that armour isn't there to allow you shrug off hits, it's there to save you from massive injuries in case everything else fails and you do get hit. Armour absorbs all damage it protects you from, so after some hits it will degrade and become useless. You should try not to get hit at all, and treat armour as the last line of defense should any of your colonists get hit despite your efforts.

[StopGamer]

I see some mistakes in math.

• You forgot about T-shirt under power armor
• Reflect shot chances not summarise accross layers, but multiplies chances not to hit

So correct math should be
Cloth set
T-shirt + Armor Vest + Duster
Damage dealt = 17.2% (82.8% damage reduction)
Hit chance = 98%*90% = 88.2% (11.8% reflect chance)
Average damage = 17.2% * 88.2% = 15.17% (84.8% average reduction)
Armor HP = 100+160+140 = 400 potencial damage treshhold

Power armor set
T-shit + Power Armor
Damage dealt = 50% * 68.8% = 34.4% (65.5% damage reduction)
Hit chance = 66% (34% reflect chance)
Average damage = 34.4% * 66% = 22.17% (77.3% average reduction)
Armor HP = 100 + 400 = 500 potencial damage treshhold

Also as mentioned before - low damage reduction (with higher reflect chance) have draw back that your pawn can loose body part. Better to take a lot of small hits distributed accross all body part than get your hand shot off by chance.

Please note that advanced calculation should count damage sustaining over time. Because after first shot your clothes will be damaged lowering their protection. I dont know how losing HP of armor effects its protecting capabilites