How do I capture raiders without killing them?

SpookCrow · February 22, 2016, 12:08:42 PM

Everytime I see a raider with good stats like high crafting and etc, I attack him last.

When I tell my pawns to melee they end up, beaten the guy to death and when I tell them to shoot him, they kill him. I just want them to subdue like shoot them in the leg so I can capture him.

Lys · February 22, 2016, 12:12:38 PM

Well, thats pretty much luck as to what your colonists hit when attacking them. There is no "aim for the legs" order you can give them. But afaik, hitting them up with melee (and most of all, blunt weapons and especially just using fists) has the least chance of destroying vital organs during a fight. Though you obviously should make sure that you have the upper hand in the fight when ordering a colonist to go brawling with his bare fists...

SpookCrow · February 22, 2016, 02:00:17 PM

But in the future, there should be like a command to subdue someone you want to capture.

Sharp · February 22, 2016, 02:32:38 PM

There are mods with non-lethal weapons/turrets you can use, or mod one in yourself as well.

Grimandevil · February 22, 2016, 02:42:40 PM

to start with, you shouldn't be able to see other pawns stats. only after capturing and interrogating them.

mumblemumble · February 22, 2016, 07:44:54 PM

Use small caliber weapons like pistols or pdws. Very low damage, but pain for every shot. Clubs also work well, as they bash, not cut, so less risk of bleeding, anatomy loss, and infection

Psyra · February 22, 2016, 08:42:37 PM

Also don't have 3+ colonists attacking them, they'll bludgeon the raiders to death too rapidly. I send 2 after everyone and they usually win with some injuries and about a 40% capture rate.

AllenWL · February 23, 2016, 02:15:38 AM

Things like wooden clubs or even a piece of wood or bottle of beer works well, though obviously not something you want in the middle of a fight.

Fire works pretty well, but it has a tendency to burn people to ashes after incapacitating them. Still one of the best options if you can rush out and grab the dude before he dies.

Bruxy · February 24, 2016, 06:06:59 AM

Quote from: AllenWL on February 23, 2016, 02:15:38 AM
Things like wooden clubs...

Would, say, a plasteel club be more likely to kill than a wooden one?

Is a mace more lethal than a club?

Where possible I tend to make myself a slaver - brawler, preferably a jogger, modded with bionic legs and arms then packed into power armour and toting a mace. They can chase down and brain most people in fairly short order. I generally give them a plasteel mace as I saw that as the best choice "less lethal" option (I play vanilla only) but it never occurred to me that the material could affect the kill rate.

AllenWL · February 24, 2016, 08:30:16 AM

Yep. A plasteel mace does more damage then wood, so it can kill more often.
This is because each bodypart has a health value, and is destroyed when this value hits 0. Of course, the destruction of some parts are lethal.

For example, let's say we have a naked pawn. All pawns have a body part called torso which as 40hp. Now, since this man is unclothed, he has no protection.

A fist deals around 5 damage. up to 7 or so punches to the torso is fine, but the 8th or so will kill. However, since all 7 punches hurt, there is a high chance of incapacitating.
Here we have a wooden club. It's in pretty rough shape, so does around 8 damage. 5 to the torso is the max limit.
Now let's say we have a legendary plasteel mace. It deals 21 damage. Two shots to the torso kills.
Of course, this number changes with armor, weapon quality, etc, but note how with the plasteel, you have a vastly lower number of hits than say, a fist.
Mace deals more damage than club, plasteel deals more damage than wood.

A wound that deals more damage doesn't give more pain, so ideally, you want to give lots of woulds that deal little damage. On the other hand, too weak a weapon and you get overpowered, or take too long and let others get away. This is why I say use wood. It's not so weak that your pawns is in danger(not too much anyways), but not so strong that it kills too easily.

LeoTessa · February 24, 2016, 09:52:04 PM

And this is why i want a taser, for the mad animals, mad colonists, and raiders

Bruxy · February 26, 2016, 05:49:11 AM

Quote from: AllenWL on February 24, 2016, 08:30:16 AM
Yep. A plasteel mace does more damage then wood, so it can kill more often.
This is because each bodypart has a health value, and is destroyed when this value hits 0. Of course, the destruction of some parts are lethal.

For example, let's say we have a naked pawn. All pawns have a body part called torso which as 40hp. Now, since this man is unclothed, he has no protection.

A fist deals around 5 damage. up to 7 or so punches to the torso is fine, but the 8th or so will kill. However, since all 7 punches hurt, there is a high chance of incapacitating.
Here we have a wooden club. It's in pretty rough shape, so does around 8 damage. 5 to the torso is the max limit.
Now let's say we have a legendary plasteel mace. It deals 21 damage. Two shots to the torso kills.
Of course, this number changes with armor, weapon quality, etc, but note how with the plasteel, you have a vastly lower number of hits than say, a fist.
Mace deals more damage than club, plasteel deals more damage than wood.

A wound that deals more damage doesn't give more pain, so ideally, you want to give lots of woulds that deal little damage. On the other hand, too weak a weapon and you get overpowered, or take too long and let others get away. This is why I say use wood. It's not so weak that your pawns is in danger(not too much anyways), but not so strong that it kills too easily.

Great answer, thank you! Things make a lot more sense now.

Another related question, then, if I may? What effects do bionic arms have on melee? If they increase damage then they may not be the best option for my slaver, but if they increase speed then maybe they are.

Lys · February 26, 2016, 11:13:12 AM

Quote from: Bruxy on February 26, 2016, 05:49:11 AMAnother related question, then, if I may? What effects do bionic arms have on melee? If they increase damage then they may not be the best option for my slaver, but if they increase speed then maybe they are.

They increase it, by quite a lot. From 5 to 9.
Source

AllenWL · February 26, 2016, 08:16:29 PM

Quote from: Bruxy on February 26, 2016, 05:49:11 AM
Great answer, thank you! Things make a lot more sense now.

Another related question, then, if I may? What effects do bionic arms have on melee? If they increase damage then they may not be the best option for my slaver, but if they increase speed then maybe they are.

Bionic arms raise manipulation, which I belie effect melee accuracy. They do not raise melee damage.
Well, sorta.
A bionic arm does 9 damage compared to a fist's 5, but melee damage isn't 'weapon damage + barehanded damage' so unless you plan to make them go barehanded, it doesn't matter.

To clarify;
A fist deals 5 damage
A bionic arm deals 9 damage.
A plasteel knife held in fists deals 21 damage
A plasteel knife held in a bionic arm deals 21 damage

On the other hand, this also makes bionic arms doubly good for gunners, as on top of giving them better accuracy, it let's them hit harder with melee as well, so they don't go down as fast when forced into melee range(as long as you remember to make them melee attack anyways).

Shad · February 29, 2016, 07:12:40 PM

Quote from: Grimandevil on February 22, 2016, 02:42:40 PM
to start with, you shouldn't be able to see other pawns stats. only after capturing and interrogating them.

I am hoping this becomes a thing at some point in the game. I shouldn't be able to just know every visitor's and enemy's exact stats, health problems, and character quirks from the moment they appear on the map.