Cave Physics. (Temperatures need re-balancing for caves) [RIMWORLD]

[milon]

@Jorgan47,

It's very uncool to create multiple threads in multiple boards that are merely copy pasta's of each other.  That only makes extra work for me and the other moderators.  We don't like that.  One thread is more than enough.  I merged the threads together here.

It's fine if you want to make a suggestion.  Just keep yourself civil and under control.  We ask that of every forum member.

[brcruchairman]

How we know that we're not meters away from a magma source is that insulation is insulation. Bad insulation is bad insulation. Specifically, if we were close enough to a heat source that would heat our caves, we would ALSO be close enough to that same heat source to heat the outside. Then the radiation from whatever sun we orbit would only ADD to that heat.

Furthermore, if that heat was, as you suggested, close to the surface, then given the global nature of a planet's mantle, it would be present throughout the whole planet; EVERY biome would have approximately that temperature. This is why I suggested normalizing to the global average; it's a shitty estimate, but it's also the right ballpark of the temperature we'd expect the planet's crust to be. If this wasn't the case, the crust would steadily leak heat into the atmosphere until the climate changed appropriately.

Your point regarding openings has merit, though on the whole it seems to balance out well in caves of significant size. A few meters deep and air can flow normally, but if we're looking at 20+ meters, unless it's open on one end (in which case we're looking at a tunnel, not a cave) then there's nowhere for the air to flow; one could reasonably expect near-nil airflow in and out of the cave beyond the entrance. Without convection, we'd only be looking at radiation and conduction to transfer heat. Radiation is, on any planet that doesn't fry the pawns immediately, negligable, as there will be no source with a direct vector into the cave except, possibly, very briefly (order of minutes) as the sun sets at just the right angle for our astonishingly straight cave. As for conduction, air is actually a very good insulator, and as such we can, once again, expect the mantle to dominate with regards to temperature.

In short, Boston, what I mean by "follow Earth's trends" is that, as humans, we have very specific needs, and any planet capable of fitting those needs is already very, very much like earth. While it may be possible for variants to exist, I have a hard time coming up with one, so to me it doesn't seem probable.

Regarding your point of how insulation currently works, you are correct, as far as I'm aware; however, I don't think Reviire and I are arguing that, but rather saying how we believe the game should work.

I'd also like to take a moment and thank you, Boston, for the good points; they are ones I hadn't considered, as I have been, as you rightly pointed out, assuming an earth-like planet. This is, as you have also pointed out, an unsubstantiated assumption. I feel that, if the planetary crust were a different temperature than the global average temperature, there'd be the climate shift as I'd mentioned, but I only came to that conclusion because you rightly pointed out flaws in my logic. I'd like to thank you for that. And, if there are more flaws in my current logic (lord knows I can accumulate them :p ) then I also thank you in advance for helping me to discover and, hopefully, remedy them. Thank you, Boston, for the conversation.

[Reviire]

I think arguing this from a physics standpoint is pretty stupid anyway. The game lacks the mechanics for simulating differences in a single area, and instead the deepest point of a cave, and it's entrance, are identical and simulated as one thing.

Otherwise, more variety in climate is also just better for the game, it wouldn't be cool if the entire planet was temperate forest. We're limited by game mechanics and balance more than we are by physics.

[milon]

Agreed. When creating a simulation game, you either must model everything perfectly (which is far too taxing for today's computers) or you must introduce hand-waiving at some point. And besides, the point of the game is storytelling. Not physics.

I really don't understand the depth of emotion regarding this topic. But maybe that's just me?

[Tynan]

I did find there was actually a bug in cave temperatures in Alpha 14. It made the cave temperatures be the same as the outside.

Sorry about that. It's fixed for next build, and the temperatures underground will be very distinctly different.

[skullywag]

I cleared up all your left over topics as well. Incase you wanted to know where they went. Think they were left over from the merge.