More things to learn from Judgement: Stylistic approach

[Lightzy]

There was a post about this which for some reason was deemed off topic (probably because of rimtrolls jumping in), but it's very fitting as a suggestion, because the constructive people there gave quite a few nice suggestions. It came up there because I noted that Judgement (a new rimworld style game) reinforces its theme (demonic apocalypse survival) in every part of its design, be it the UI, the graphical style, the research tree, the craftable items, the music and soundtrack, actions your pawns can do (satanic / holy rituals ) etc.
In short, it's similar to rimworld, but much more stylistically focused.

So how to make rimworld more stylistic?

It's supposed to have something to do with 'wild west in space'  in theme, but really there's nothing much of that other than the music maybe.
So there were a few suggestions on how to make the game more thematic and thus evoke more emotion through its setting:

1) Adding stuff like bounties, where colonies raise a bounty for whoever brings the head of a particularly troublesome bandit lord .

2) Sheriffs? (perhaps areas of the map which have tight communities could sometimes an area sheriff who reinforces some local 'laws', such as perhaps, "no drug trading", or no alcohol, or whatever restricted items or substances. Stuff like that. Also, the player colony could be nominated for sheriffdom)

3) Banditry (Enabling the player to choose what kind of colony he wants. Maybe I want to play a bandit camp? So the game could accomodate for a playstyle which, in part, eschews farming/research/etc in favor of getting stuff from raiding caravans and towns

4) More variety to tribes and tribals (for example, judge dredd style tribals who are heavily augmented cybernetically and very aggressive)

5) How stuff looks! Not everything is mint new (everything in rimworld looks like it's fresh off of the assembly line, graphics are very very clean, to the point where it starts not making much sense and making everything 'generic'. There are items which are different, like the regular 'strap on armor' which give off a very interesting vibe, looking 'ad hoc', but most other stuff, for example, assault rifles, looks so minty fresh its just bizzare.
I'd suggest making the graphics reflect, at least to some small extent, the setting.

6) UI graphic (perhaps skin it a bit differently to test it out? Something with leather but also neon blue lighting or whatever amounts to a spacey wild west feeling. Really small touches go a long way)

7) Perhaps even changing the names of some items, or adding items which are more thematic (for example, cowboy hats and power armor definitely apply to the western in space theme, but most items are very generically named, like "pistol", "assault rifle". It's useful in telling what the thing is, but ultimately this usability fails to evoke anything. It's not hard to give a thematic name to something while still making it clear what it is, and sometimes even NOT making it clear what it is gives a much more intimate feel to the setting, where the player conforms to the setting as he plays and thus gets sucked in much more.
It's basically the difference between, say, calling them "Tall thin people who are artistic and magical and live forever" and calling them "elves". Once you name something, you grow more attached to it through familiarity.

A bit far fetched but.... trains? Established trade routes for caravans and wagons that are displayed on the map?

9) Pawn activities which are more thematic (for example, the "rituals" and "occult research" in Judgement. Dunno what could apply to Rimworld but.. yeah.)


Just some ideas.
Raise more if you have any.
If you don't, fuck off

[Houkime]

Rimworld is not only about Wild West.
For me it is mostly about the future in which bravery and creativity won to the point where it is possible to assemble complex stuff right on field and explore new lands.
For me it is mostly about freedom of choice, freedom from enforced moral set ups and traditions.
Freedom to create what you want unless it is lethal for you for some reasons (and even then).
Only you, technology, psychology and world.


I think any purely for-style things are not needed.
So "No" to any forced UI skins. They will distract.
Mods can do what they want though.

Clean graphics is also extremely optimal for this kind of game. Stuff on screen is already complex enough. No need to overdose visual load.
Some variety in this clean graphics won't hurt though.

Realism is another thing.
I think it is realistic that in RimWorlds there could be famous criminals and bounty hunting.
Some other Wild West stuff can also be realistically in place.
So if not prohibited by realism and is bringing variety to gameplay, more Wild West-like mechanics will be good to be implemented in my opinion.

[schizmo]

For me the key is visual feedback. I don't mind everything looking new and clean if the item is actually new and clean, but as weapons, armor, and clothing start to deteriorate, I want visual feedback for that. I want to see at a glance that my colonists clothes are getting ratty, or that their weapons are all beat up. The game does a great job of this on floors when things get dirty, but it isn't consistent. Not all things show feedback if theyre damaged or dirty, and I don't believe any items in the game have visual indicators as to whether theyre shoddy or legendary. I think if there was more variation it wouls help break up the monotany of "everything looks perfect" until of course the player earns it.

[Lubricus]

1) Adding stuff like bounties, where colonies raise a bounty for whoever brings the head of a particularly troublesome bandit lord .

Gave me the idea of that your colonists could get bounties on their head and raids with strength dependent on the bounty will target the colonist. Otherwise I think Tynan have hit the bullseye with the graphic in Rimworld it's functional in the way you see what is going on and in the same time leave stuff to your imagination.

[skullywag]

"Inspired by the space western vibe of Firefly", doesnt state it has to "have something to do with 'wild west in space'". Its a vibe, a feeling and it has that.

The other stuff i wont go into as its opinions and suggestions which are fine, I just wanted to clear up that point.

[Houkime]

It would be tough to have good visible indication of quality I think. Colors are already bound to materials, so no real possibility.
It is also quite realistically so because in real life visual appearance of shoddy, for example, clothes is not too different from good ones (China, yes).
Maybe we will have a mod that adds colored glow for masterwork clothes like in vulgar RPGs but i would prefer not to have it enabled.

Another possiblity is small extra details for really good things. Like ornaments or simple geometric pictures. I would like this.
Or just an alternative model.

Ragging of clothes could be possibly done quite well I think.

Like ragged tribalwear can be much more brown and have one hole in it.
T-shirts and stuff can also appear chipped, with darkened colors and with holes.
I would prefer one symbolic hole and darkened color.
(Yes, minimalism)

[Lightzy]

It would be tough to have good visible indication of quality I think. Colors are already bound to materials, so no real possibility.
It is also quite realistically so because in real life visual appearance of shoddy, for example, clothes is not too different from good ones (China, yes).
Maybe we will have a mod that adds colored glow for masterwork clothes like in vulgar RPGs but i would prefer not to have it enabled.

Another possiblity is small extra details for really good things. Like ornaments or simple geometric pictures. I would like this.
Or just an alternative model.

Ragging of clothes could be possibly done quite well I think.

Like ragged tribalwear can be much more brown and have one hole in it.
T-shirts and stuff can also appear chipped, with darkened colors and with holes.
I would prefer one symbolic hole and darkened color.
(Yes, minimalism)

Well that's why I gave the examples of the metal armor (which with its straps and just big jagged piece of metal plate looks very .. homebrew) and the assault rifle (which is basically a 1-1 replica of an M16 in mint condition).

It's definitely possible to make things more stylized, it's just a question of what style, and if to do that.

Personally I think that rimworld lacks a lot in this area hence the post

[Headshotkill]

These suggestions seem awfully familiar...

Oh god, I can smell the bias in this thread from miles away, anyhow here's my 2 cents.
I played judgement for a bit and I can safely say that in it's current form it's not worth it, rimworld pre-alpha was more enjoyable.
Rimworld has a graphics style, pawns were kept simplistic on purpose because most people has a biological super computer that can make stuff up, and it's usually better at doing that, than a "detailed" sprite on a screen. Judgement is trying too much too fast and thus implemented features that don't complement each other and therefore feel detached from the overall experience.

I've migrated from Dwarf fortress to Rimworld because Rimworld has IMO surpassed Dwarf fortress in multiple fields, for me personally Rimworld has deeper systems and less clutter, unlike Dwarf fortress you're never and can never be totally safe. (I just wish the temperature system were updated, it's weird to instantly cool down boiling room by opening a wall.)

Rimworld does have a problem surrounding a couple of features, I'm convinced these key features are what leaves a bad taste in people's mouth regarding Rimworld's identy crisis.
The problem I'm bringing up is features without context (AKA clutter), we have beer but no drinking system, we have drugs but not a deeper medical system where drugs rather than solely being joy-items can also be important meds, we have sieges but they're incredibly easy to exploit using sniper rifles, we have caravans and you can initiate trading with factions yourself but doing so is most of the time not worth it due to the journey costing food and being dangerous and traders regularly come to you, ... and we have cowboy hats for no other reason but to somehow push forward those wild western vibes, it doesn't work that way.

These aren't bugs, they're design mistakes that make the game feel like a cheap horror movie with lots of jumpscares but no substance.

However there's atleast hope, if you would've started this discussion during alpha 15, then my list of Rimworld problems would've also included:

-The world map, which until alpha 16 served no real purpose other than choosing location.
-Faction bases on world map, which don't really matter where they were located.
-Late game resources problem
-...

So I hope Tynan will continue this path of development and continue focusing on tying features together rather than throwing in new stuff for the sake of NEW STUFF! (AKA CLUTTER)
How to implement the real wild western vibes?
Ad bounty hunting were a town asks you to investigate a location and take out a group of raiders, ability to build social facilities such as bars(saloons) and have groups passing by have a drink or an inn so they can sleep, ad currency system and CAPITALISM, there was no communism in the wild west every man for himself and not this magic colony paradise idea pawns seem to have, ad specialist roles such as mayor and sheriff, reduce spacey stuff a little bit, more improvised weapons that look like revolvers/rifles, more isolation and communication problems between outposts so you have to send diplomatic parties to factions rather than use the comconsole, ...
It's not that hard, just don't rely on cowboy hats and music.

And lastly, I won't mention any names but just because people (dis)agree with you doesnt mean they're (stupid) intelligent.

[Lightzy]

Thanks for the bump. If you have more suggestions add them