Seriously? (gun cooldown, poison ship)

[b0rsuk]

I think weapon cooldowns should be possible to cancel. I shouldn't have to reload a crossbow immediately after shooting, I may want to duck behind cover first. It could have very simple implementation - you can cancel cooldown anytime by ordering a colonist to move. As soon as he stops, he will start his cooldown (reloading/cocking) from scratch. Until it's done, he can only move, not shoot.

[Guilty Omelette]

I think weapon cooldowns should be possible to cancel. I shouldn't have to reload a crossbow immediately after shooting, I may want to duck behind cover first. It could have very simple implementation - you can cancel cooldown anytime by ordering a colonist to move. As soon as he stops, he will start his cooldown (reloading/cocking) from scratch. Until it's done, he can only move, not shoot.

I agree with you but I suspect that warm-ups and cooldowns were changed by the developer specifically to stop us from doing things like this. =)

Having an unarmed colonist open and then immediately close a door that 4 other SWAT pawns are stacked on works a dream because you can fire a salvo without triggering any return fire.

Sadly i think Tynan has a dislike of tactics like these because he fears that it will trivialize combat and rob it off its tension.

I don't bother with armor at all because every time i trade fire with raiders, i seem to always end up with my favorite colonist getting a brain injury through his power armor helmet.

[b0rsuk]

Yes, cooldowns are probably one of tynanisms. But for many players it's aggravating as it removes the feeling of player agency. It feels clunky.

[TheMeInTeam]

I don't mind cooldowns in principle.  It gives an apparently intentional advantage to some weapons that otherwise would lack a niche, like CQB firearms.  It also gives the charge rifle a substantial advantage as it's tied for 1st with 40 ticks.

What bothered me is that the OP's story seems to imply that, on spawning, mech volley gets to ignore weapon warm-up ticks for that weapon which would be a cheap-shot.

As for which ways to handle ships are "cheaty" vs not, I see no reason that should be given time of day :p.  There's no functional logical consistency in differentiating between player tactics that work against the AI when they would not against a human, especially if said tactics share in outcome.

Take the sniper vs shielded pawns in cover example.  The former takes much longer to get rid of the ship, and both get rid of the ship with nearly zero risk when executed properly.  So why would one method with 0 risk + similar outcome be considered less fair, especially when it has arguably inferior tradeoffs?

Using cover better than the AI uses it is on that exact same curve.  Unless one uses a pre-arranged, objective criteria to evaluate "exploit" vs "playing within design", any decision on which category a tactic falls into is necessary arbitrary regardless of who makes it (even Tynan!).  An arbitrary decision might be more time-efficient than alternatives and present better value than pushing a better standard on something relatively low-impact, but it is still arbitrary unless the reasoning is self-consistent.

[b0rsuk]

Neither cover nor personal shield protects against inferno cannon. Inferno cannon grants some degree of resistance, but you still catch fire often when hit. And when that happens, other mechs will perforate you.

Which reminds me - some people gave terrible advice on the first page, that you should equip a personal shield and run in the open like a headless chicken, and don't go into cover because they will switch targets. Completely not true. Mechanoids simply shoot the closest target they can see. If you're partially visible (sandbags, leaning around corners) they will shoot.

[GiantSpaceHamster]

Neither cover nor personal shield protects against inferno cannon. Inferno cannon grants some degree of resistance, but you still catch fire often when hit. And when that happens, other mechs will perforate you.

Which reminds me - some people gave terrible advice on the first page, that you should equip a personal shield and run in the open like a headless chicken, and don't go into cover because they will switch targets. Completely not true. Mechanoids simply shoot the closest target they can see. If you're partially visible (sandbags, leaning around corners) they will shoot.

The headless chicken strategy works great if you do it right. You have to let the mechs start firing then run out of range or behind cover. That way they will not switch targets, instead restarting their cooldown. With a personal shield you are very unlikely to take any damage from the 1 or 2 shots that may hit before you get out of range.

Seriously though, with this strategy I take zero or almost zero damage fighting mechs.

[TheMeInTeam]

Inferno cannon has enough range and projectile travel time that it will struggle to hit pawns moving full speed.  I suppose doing that isn't obvious to everyone though, and it has problems as numbers grow since you only get a few dodges before the whole area is on fire.

Against non-ship mech raids I often fight centipedes by popping out of a door (interior door held open), shooting them with an assault rifle, survival rifle, or charge rifle, then going back in until the stop "waiting for targets", repeating ad-nauseum.  It's painstaking, but effective if you're running rock walls.

The real issue here is that the mech don't leave the ship.  If they did, however, you could isolate scyther from centipedes due to speed difference, with inferno cannons trivially kited (should be considered within design given move speed choices).  These things are practically made for sniper rifle/mortars with current rules and behaviors.  If you change behaviors the tactics to win also change.

[b0rsuk]

Moral of the story: running around is for inferno cannon. But it makes it worse against instant weapons.

[stu89pid]

And if you have a TON of steel and aren't in any rush you can have your mortars target the ship from a safe distance.

In fact, if you are willing to waste a lot of steel/shells to avoid risking damage to a pawn, you can sit back and mortar the ship to oblivion. The mechs will raid you when it gets to a %, I can't remember but I think it's around 50%. When they charge your base, you get the scythers way before the centipedes (Unless the ship landed right outside your base) since they are so much faster.

But I can only pull this off in stable colonies that I should have already built a spaceship on.