Tired of useless colonists

[b0rsuk]

But the thing is, I'm being (in my mind) *un*reasonable about how *poor* of a pawn I'm willing to accept.  I just want shooting, growing, and mining skill of 2 or greater without any horrific impediments (abrasive, pyro, etc).  Yet I keep getting pawns with godlike skill in social, research, or art which I simply don't need -- and the inability to perform basic colony maintenance tasks like shooting pirates or planting potatoes.

And btw, for making money all I need is a pawn that can walk faster than 2 squares/sec to go back and forth between the giant pile of smokeweed 5 squares away and the crafting spot.  He cranks out cash faster than any skilled artist.

You're barking up the wrong tree. The actual problem is that Tynan let a balance problem slip into A16 - smokeleaf are stupidly profitable. Also, some skills, especially Social, need changes.

Speaking of useless colonists,

Now to be fair those colonists tend to carry a small amount of these drugs with them, but I'd rather just cure my people, especially that one of my first 3 initial colonist is an... Addiction Counsellor, Sammy. A former joywire addict. Sounds like a kickstarter backer.
Anyway, A16 added new ways in which colonists can disappoint!

[Shurp]

Go juice withdrawal is easily cured by cranial injection of 5g of high grade Pb.

And yes, smokeweed is OP. But the real problem is that there is no base markup on manufactured goods. A poor statue is worth *less* than the slate it's constructed from.

[Boston]

Part of my problem (and this is entirely my opinion) with "useless" colonists is that, realistically, nobody is useless, not in real life. Anybody can do physical labor, even if it is just digging ditches and moving piles of stuff.

In-game? Nah, bro.

And, to be entirely honest, a pawn "incapable" of something, (and even someone with hilariously low skill levels, when you get down to it) is literally a waste of materiel and space. Hauling and Cleaning are gamebreakers for me, but being "Incapable" of other skills are up there.

It has gotten to the point where it isn't even about the "story" at this point. Like, I couldn't care less. I just want functional human beings.

That, coupled with how hilariously ineffective pawns are at anything less than MASTAH-CLASS skill levels, is disheartening. If you have 5 in Shooting, sure, you aren't going to be an Olympian, but I would expect you to be able to at least hit a target regularly. If a group of ~13 year old kids, the majority of whom have never fired a rifle before, can put 5 bullets into the diameter of a quarter after a week of practice, then you should be goddamn able to at least hit what you point a rifle at.

If I could have previously-"Incapable" pawns do work, even with time, effectiveness and mood-penalties, I would be happy.

[b0rsuk]

I would frame it differently. There's a number of skills where you only care about the most skilled person in the colony. Unless there's an emergency of some sort like your doctor was ambushed in an infestation, you only need:
- one doctor
- one cook
- one recruiter
- one animal tamer
- one crafter (as long as you have limited materials)
- one constructor for items that have meaningful quality (beds, chairs, stools and armchairs only)

Rimworld promotes skill mastery too much. I think it has to do with the fact less skilled colonists can't assist the master. You only have one chance to perform the medical operation, or even treat wounds, and your medicine is limited! You want your meals made by the best cook to minimize chance of food poisoning (used to be really NASTY as it halved movement speed). One cook should be enough with efficient design, and people generally want fewer cooks (a.k.a. NPD), not more cooks unless selling meals. Only your highest recruiter counts because he gets the highest chance, and you can't try too often. The same for taming. For crafting, you want to make best use of your materials and achieve best possible quality. Steel, components, wool and good leather are limited. With constructor, the biggest issue is with dining chairs and armchairs, those are expensive and a failure is costly. On the other hand, plain beds and stools are fast to build and one builder can supply the entire colony.

Research stacks perfectly with multiple researchers, you just need two or more research benches and yes, you can connect extra benches to the same multi-analyzer.

[b0rsuk]

To elaborate, a colony having once skill 12 cook and one skill 7 cook should be better fed than a colony with just one skill 12 cook. A colony should be better off with two skilled crafters instead of one. Two recruiters should be better than one.

But in Rimworld, two cooks is the same as one unless one of them is somehow taken out of the picture.

[Limdood]

To elaborate, a colony having once skill 12 cook and one skill 7 cook should be better fed than a colony with just one skill 12 cook. A colony should be better off with two skilled crafters instead of one. Two recruiters should be better than one.

But in Rimworld, two cooks is the same as one unless one of them is somehow taken out of the picture.

I don't follow this at all....If i have 12 chefs in a kitchen with 1 stove, i will not get food made all that much faster than if i have 1 chef

you want that skill 12 and skill 7 cook making more food than just the skill 12 cook?  then make another stove.  I routinely make use of multiple stonecutter benches early on.  Multiple skilled crafting spots (smith, machining, tailor, art) can be done too, but require some fancy zonework (namely excluding the crafters from benches they aren't allowed to touch).

The only thing it doesn't really work that great for is animals and wardening...since there is a TARGET delay on the action (though it still works if there is an extreme abundance of animals/prisoners)

[TheMeInTeam]

Yeah most cases they can do something useful, so they're in.  Extreme ice sheet challenges and such where you must cannibalize to survive, yes you reject people (rather you convert them to food and leather which you desperately need more than their skills, to be specific).  Otherwise, people are way too picky about colonists and value added.

I have a colony where I'm stuck with triple artists.  It's 'kay.

http://i.imgur.com/mlWiXuc.jpg

Three of these are incapable of hauling.  Yet another is a pyro.  The dedicated cook started with 2 skill in it and only "interested" passion (now obviously high since it's year 2).

With all the complaints about other stuff here, the multiple "incapables" are not a serious problem in this colony.  The most annoying trait is actually my two "greedy" colonists.  These snowflakes get a -8 on being in the barracks, though one of them is constantly getting lovin' so I'm leaving them there for the moment.  The other one got kicked into an external placeholder. 

Despite all this, I don't have a separate room only for one "greedy" and no mental break risk, not even minor, on extreme.  Triple artist --> wood statues is putting up enough money to clean out exotic goods traders (can cycle those for money --> call in a bulk alongside 2 exotic).

The only major stopping points for bringing in another colonist is 1) desperation in extreme environments or 2) if they're so limited that you're going to make them idle, and you don't want to send them off raiding to try to steal supplies.

[taha]

To elaborate, a colony having once skill 12 cook and one skill 7 cook should be better fed than a colony with just one skill 12 cook. A colony should be better off with two skilled crafters instead of one. Two recruiters should be better than one.

But in Rimworld, two cooks is the same as one unless one of them is somehow taken out of the picture.

I don't follow this at all....If i have 12 chefs in a kitchen with 1 stove, i will not get food made all that much faster than if i have 1 chef

you want that skill 12 and skill 7 cook making more food than just the skill 12 cook?  then make another stove.  I routinely make use of multiple stonecutter benches early on.  Multiple skilled crafting spots (smith, machining, tailor, art) can be done too, but require some fancy zonework (namely excluding the crafters from benches they aren't allowed to touch).

The only thing it doesn't really work that great for is animals and wardening...since there is a TARGET delay on the action (though it still works if there is an extreme abundance of animals/prisoners)

Is not what he wanted to say. (I actually agree with him). If you have one cook with skill 12 in cooking (making lavish meals) is one thing. But what if you get another, with skill 7 in cooking? Now you have 2 cooks, but only one is actually cooking, because you want those lavish meals, right? (Lavish meals require 10 in cooking btw)

So the other one is useless. But in a *normal* situation, the other cook would help his "master chef" by... I dont know... chopping onion, peeling potatoes, boiling pasta or whatever. Those lavish meals would be ready sooner. Not the case with the actual setup.

The only way to make the other cook useful, is to build another stove, set fine meals to forever, filter skill from 6 to 9 and wait for the "bad" cook to advance to 10 cooking. Only then you will have 2 level 10+ cooks able to cook lavish meals at 2x speed.

That's what b0rsuk wanted to say. And to use your own example if you have one skill 18 crafter and a skill 10 crafter, would be a waste to let the low skilled one to make your clothes or guns. You will use the high-skilled one (priority 1 in tailoring and smithing) and set "crafting" to 1 for the other. And is still the same problem.

I hope now is clear.

[b0rsuk]

http://i.imgur.com/mlWiXuc.jpg

Wow, that's one ugly and soulless base. It looks effective, because you're gaming the system to the fullest.

* * *

What I was saying is that Rimworld has a Master Syndrome. For a big fraction of skills you only care what's your most skilled colonist in the area. But it doesn't ring true. An amazing doctor would still need good and educated nurses and assistants. He can't operate and prepare tools, bandages, sewing needles, lubricants and whatnot at the same time. Or imagine a dentist doing everything alone. Hell, even people working at reception need medical education.

For everything that has quality, you want BEST, not "good enough". Exceptions: tables, flower pots, but only because their quality doesn't seem to affect anything at all.

[jpinard]

When I get a great colonist to join it is like Christmas.  I love that feeling!  Just had that happen last night and I was grinning ear to ear with the master craftsman type person I got with almost no terrible traits.

[Shurp]

Here we go again.  I get the dreaded "seeking refuge" transmission.  But I figure, OK, let me take a chance, after all, it is one of the colonist's lover...

So of *course* he's incapable of violent.  Screw that.  Load autosave.

Can someone point me to a mod where all pawns are forced to have shooting, growing, and mining skill equal or greater than *2*?  That's all I want.

[b0rsuk]

Haha, the game just reminded me how amazing Sheriffs are. He's a Brawler sheriff, no less! No hauling, no cleaning, 4 Shooting, 1 Animals, 2 Artistic, 3 Research, no passion except melee. But Waaait ! Don't I have a pile of Scyther Blades ? Oh well, he can operate my incendiary mortars too.

[jpinard]

Now that I've played a ton I'm enjoying worthless colonists a little more as it makes me appreciate good ones so much more LOL. 

[Hans Lemurson]

The purpose of Non-Violent colonists is to wear a Personal Shield and run around like a headless chicken to drawn enemy fire.  They aren't cowards, they just refuse to bring harm to sentient beings (unless they go berserk).

[b0rsuk]

Another use is as pack mules. They carry extra cargo in caravans and can negotiate. You're not risking much by sending them without protection.